VJ Standups

[Nino]

I know I asked this many times, so let me try once again. FOX, what's you definition of success and failure. The business world looks at statistics and trends to establish successes and potential earning, that’s what we learn in business school. I really don't care what KRON is doing, all I see is that in the last six years out of 4000 stations operating in the US only 3 have made the complete switch to VJ. The market penetration is even too negligible to form a statistic. Any business with this type of performance would be far gone.

If this indeed was such a success as you have been telling us it is, they would be all jumping on the bandwagon, why wouldn’t they? What business would not make changes if those changes are proven to increase the bottom line? But they didn't, have you ever wondered why? Instead they are approaching the OMB cautiously and with discipline, phasing it in slowly and learning from their own mistakes, but most important they are looking for the right person to do the right job, this is the way all businesses operate, they look for strengths and weaknesses and delegate duties based on the results; not by telling everybody that they must make changes or else. This was the way that I suggested to Rosenblum almost five years ago. Apparently he didn't listen but everybody else did; and this is why those who are making the move toward OMB are doing it without him, they know the difference between success and failure, there's no middle ground in business. You can talk all you want but the facts are still there, 3 sales out of 4000 potential clients in not a success.

I also predict that you will not see many complete changeovers like those 3 stations; most stations, or at least the smart ones, will incorporate the OMB but will stop short from going totally OBM, they will instead create a good balance of personnel and talents and assign jobs based on skills and pay scale, in few words they’ll start running their businesses like businesses.

 

[AlexLucas]

Dog:

6. You are a traditionalist. Of the worst kind. You refuse to change. You refuse to discuss. You endlessly attack and resort to name-calling. You protect the past at the expense of the future.

Now this is hilarious to me.

This Verdant, is where you and I lose it. And we lose it big.
Traditionalism?
What the hell are you talking about?
What traditionalism are we protecting?
Photography with a purpose?
People who've worked on their craft?
Are we losing because we want composed and well lit stuff that looks good? That is pleasing to the eye?
Are we all antiquated dinosaurs because we understand light physics, that work on all cameras?
Are you operating in a world that the physics are different for you, where the knowledge base of what I do doesn't matter, that I am incapable of understanding how to plug a card into a laptop?
And you think that you I couldn't, at any given moment, copy your gear, and beat the living pants off your VJ examples in a single day?

Dude, you're missing the point of all of these 'traditionalists.'
I can give you within three frames a rough estimate the years of experience the photographer has. It's very, very, very rare that a shooter like Redcoat comes along and naturally slides into 'adult' and 'advanced' lensing techniques so well. He can fool ya. Most can't. The village elders can tell you where you went wrong with the overhead lighting from a single shot.

You talk like these Universities can teach how to shoot.
Bull****.
You talk like a laptop and a small camera makes them better than me.
Double bull****.
Learning how to shoot comes from the same way Stephen King learned to write, by wearing out typewriters and cameras.
He went to word processors and then computers.
It didn't turn him into a 'traditionalist loser' because he doesn't use Windows friggin' Vista, any more than WTVF still shoots tape to tape.

You have to learn this stuff from someone.
MR can't teach photography.... he's just not really a photographer, he's a movie buff. He's got other interests with this. Still, photography is intimately tied into all of this.
Some of these cats in markets don't have mentors that can teach them when to punch or flatten a shot. When to pull a sky by moving the tripod three feet. Or when to kill a flare, or how to use it in a pan.
VJ won't teach them that either.

ACTUALLY HAVING CRAFT KNOWLEDGE DOES NOT MAKE ONE A HEAD IN THE SAND 'TRADITIONALIST.'

If these techniques were so bunk, if photography didn't matter, you wouldn't have Caleb Deschanel, Janusz Kamenski, and Vittorio Storaro shooting network television shows.
People wouldn't be shelling out thousands of bucks for HDTVs. They'd just buy forty buck boxes.
Soap operas, which look like ****, would be on in the night instead of the day after 'The Price is Right.'

Good visuals sell. The entire CSI series of shows pretty much stink as a writing style (honestly, just listen to the dialogue of CSI:Miami), but carry a visual look that is downright smokin'. Most CBS shows are written terribly, and look great. They last longer than the others.
And the herd loves them. Shiny shiny!

When you walk in the door with a smokin' hot tape, full of style and grace, it shows immediately.
There's no denying it.
It is pleasing to the eye. And that's where 70% of our data of the world comes from. We believe it and feel it when we see it.
You want to make a story work? Shoot it well.
Even the best writers in the world usually let the photog go nuts, and they sit in the corner and listen with a notepad.
You obstruct a photog, and you've boned your piece.

To say a person who has a knack and a skill on how to present an emotional truth of something via a camera is being a traditionalist over some stupid new technique of workplace staff management, well, that's just wrong.

Let me distill it down to you.
It's the educated vs. the uneducated.
The trained vs. the untrained.
It's the knowledgeable vs. the illiterate.
It's sure as hell not the traditionalists vs. the brilliant, shiny future that is running them over.

Give me a pocket camera, and you take a Canon D1 M3, with twenty grand in lenses.
I will clown you.
Skills that are learned still count.
You will never get it until you learn the 'traditional' rules.

 

[littlejoetv]

Good lord

Wow. You are pissed.

If I have offended anyone with my use of the word "traditionalist", I apologize. When I say "traditionalist", I mean the guys and gals who are not VJs, who still operate in 2 (dare I say 3?) man crews.

I didn't think it would enrage the powers-that-be. Shall I use "Standard Crews" or "Photog/Reporter Crews"?

 

[Chicago Dog]

(Wholly pointless, inane drivel.)

How does Young Broadcasting spell "success?" D-e-l-i-s-t-e-d!

Yet, of the two of us, you somehow claim that I'm out of touch? What a laugh!

 

[Chicago Dog]

The traditionalist fought the battle at first on the assumption that the VJ concept is completely unworkable (has failed, will fail, is already dead).

If I have offended anyone with my use of the word "traditionalist", I apologize.

Wait, wait, wait... what? Joe never used the word "traditionalist" in any of his ten posts. Fox, however, did.

Hmm!

 

[redcoat]

How does Young Broadcasting spell "success?" D-e-l-i-s-t-e-d!

Yet, of the two of us, you somehow claim that I'm out of touch? What a laugh!

Just to be clear and reiterate Dog's point. Young owns both KRON and WKRN. So the VJ/OMB model has certainly not been their saving grace. I am by no means making sport of this situation to make my point. I know it is serious. I am concerned for my fellow Nashville newsies over at WKRN.

Joe, I have a question for you which I don't think has been asked yet. If it has please disregard it. Do you have aspirations beyond being a OMB or have you reached the height of what you want your career to be? Do you eventually want to solely report?

I ask this question because in my experience most OMB's, if given the option, would want to bypass the do-it-all job and eventually use their seniority and experience to acquire a job with less tasks and a higher paycheck wherein they also provide a higher quality, more trustworthy product. Most OMB's I have known have a fuse that will only burn so long before something goes off.

The word has gone out to schools and smaller markets, the usual breeding grounds for young journalists. There is opportunity for quick movement to a much larger market if you're willing to pick up a camera.

Ah yes, it's a brilliant idea to move the young journalists to bigger markets not because they have the skill and experience to do the job the public deserves, but because they are workhorses that don't know any better and will do a lot of sh** for near nothing. That's a great plan to keep our industry relevant!

 

[littlejoetv]

Joe, I have a question for you which I don't think has been asked yet. If it has please disregard it. Do you have aspirations beyond being a OMB or have you reached the height of what you want your career to be? Do you eventually want to solely report?

It's hard to say right now. I've been in the game for a decade now. 3 of those years were spent as a VJ/OMB. For 7 of those years, I had a photog (but I kept working with the gear and even bought my own cameras and FCP). I'm 32 now, far from being a young journalist. And hold your ears: I've been an anchor in all of my markets. Here in San Diego, I've been the fill-in guy. But I'm anchoring. So I'm no spring chicken.

I do like doing it all by myself. Not gonna lie. I like it a lot. But there are days where I just lose my mind. There have been days when I have shot, wrote, and edited two day-turn packages. Those hurt. I can see myself doing this for awhile longer. At least until the body wears down. But I see most photogs rockin' their cameras through their 50s. So how about another 20 years...or when the anchor desk opens.

 

[AlexLucas]

Wow. You are pissed.

If I have offended anyone with my use of the word "traditionalist", I apologize. When I say "traditionalist", I mean the guys and gals who are not VJs, who still operate in 2 (dare I say 3?) man crews.

I didn't think it would enrage the powers-that-be. Shall I use "Standard Crews" or "Photog/Reporter Crews"?

Little Joe-

You've got me 100% wrong on this one.

I'm pissed off at Verdant, not you.
That's Verdant.
He's a troll.
He's probably never shot.
It's like going on a painting forum, and not talking about painting, but only about the canvases.
He never addresses the real, time consuming techniques of photography... or the dilligence of learning them.

Not pissed at you in the slightest.
If you're new to the boards, you might not know my history...
...I've been a lot closer to your life than you think.

I too, got burned out on a short period of time... the reason was, I was at WKRN, and they applied the sledgehammer of making VJ work there much aligned to the techniques of comrade Stalin. They went with 'sink or swim' in the worst, and most cruelest ways possible. I was one of the first. I could barely swim while being shot at in the water. They made an absolute ton of mistakes with their people. They were also absolutely cruel and unusual with thier employees, and they were looking for any excuse to fire them during their time.
However, the 'comrade commissars' got the just punishment in the end, meted out the same way they gave it.

I understand, moreso than probably anyone else here, what you mean about maddening burn out.

Verdant gets my ire because he never, ever, ever addresses that writing, photography, presentation, and personal set-up with people for strories are REAL SKILLS, that take a LONG TIME to get good at.
They're the real secret, not firewire cables and formats.


It's actually snarky disrespect for you.
They're using you as the poster boy for their idea, just like they used me in NPPA magazine.
I was another shining example, after ten years of experience, how "anyone can do this!"
When they tell you "See? Anyone can do this!" They disrespect you, and the time you put in.
They disrespect the times you weren't fired from the people around you.
They disrespect all the crime scenes you sat on at 3am five hours after your shift was over.
They disrespect the amount of effort and learning you put into writing and other things.

What they really want to do, is a cosmic pull my finger trick that makes you act like you just started.
That they can take a college kid and make him as good as you in three weeks.

You were in the game for a decade.
Yet they act like your skills mean nothing.
"Anyone can do this!"
See?
Look at this idiot!
They keep showing us examples of a few, that have years of experience, and then tell us this is the wave of the future.

Nope.
We're a wave from the past.

A past where we learned our skills. Not had them handed to us with a tiny camera.

 

[verdantFOX]

Hmmm. I'm disrespecting Joe by defending what he does. Interesting point of view Alex. As usual your logic is impeccable.

Joe is an example of what a talented person can do when he has the desire, determination, and tools to do it. Most of you denied his existence before he showed up at your doorstep.

Nino:

I've stated it often enough, but let me try to make it as simple as possible so that even Dog will understand.

In the case of VJs success would be having one person do the job of two without having any negative impact on ratings or revenue. Failure would the inability to have one person do the job of two people thereby having a negative impact on ratings or revenue.

Clear enough? Now go at it.

 

[verdantFOX]

Alex:

Get off the "anyone can do this" will you. No one is disrespecting you. It is my opinion that, based on what I've been able to ascertain, you were exceptionally good at VJ and are very likely an exceptionally good photographer. There is no doubt that you are passionate and capable. Good God man, if someone at WKRN suggested anyone could VJ, they are idiots.

But get over it. It's done, they're gone and so are you.

My point about Joe is that he, and others like him ARE exceptional. They stand out because they are better at what they do than the vast sea of mediocrity out there. As I already said, I believe Joe would be exceptional as a traditional reporter. He already has a natural eye for composition.

Few people are like him whether he was VJing or not. I suspect if he were in BANKING he'd be exceptional. It would be ridiculous for me to state that because Joe is an excellent VJ EVERYONE is an excellent VJ. I never did.

You may have been an outstanding VJ. That's why your employers made you a poster child. It was your choice to fail at it by giving up and then trashing the people who held you in such high regard.

VJ is just a system Alex. It's a system of doing a job a certain way. Some who did the job the old way might never adapt like you did. The fact that you DID is a positive indication of your intelligence, ability, and adaptive skills. That says a lot about you.

You also quit in anger, trashed the people who gave you the opportunity to succeed and did everything you could to undercut the people who employed you. That says a lot about you as well.

But if you and Joe can do it, others can do it as well. Few will be as good as you were, but few are probably as good a photographer as you are. Yet those people keep their jobs and they try their best, even without your level of talent or ability. That makes you exceptional too.

Also exceptional is your total lack of integrity and decency in regards to your former employer. But you are exceptional.

 

[Nino]

Nino:

I've stated it often enough, but let me try to make it as simple as possible so that even Dog will understand.

In the case of VJs success would be having one person do the job of two without having any negative impact on ratings or revenue. Failure would the inability to have one person do the job of two people thereby having a negative impact on ratings or revenue.

Clear enough? Now go at it.

So you are saying that years after having the opportunities to analyze the results the other 3997 stations that opted not to make the switch (like those 3 that did) are not capable of envisioning the potential either?

 

[verdantFOX]

Nino:

That is not what I'm saying at all. That is you projecting upon me your limited capacity to see anything past what is immediately in front of you.

I see VJ first and foremost as a cost savings tool for management. That is precisely what I said in my very first post. I know in your world the economy is great and TV stations are cash cows. In mine, however, they are laying people off left and right. Having one person do the job of two will save money half the money.

It is endlessly befuddling to me why you cannot see past today. First of all many more stations than three are doing VJ. Many more will be doing VJ in the future for the reason I stated above.

That's it Nino. More are doing it. More will do it. That's what I've been saying. And that is exactly what is happening.

In addition, if you don't see the potential of a person like Joe, I can assure you others do. He is succeeding as a VJ. Why? Because it's not about whether VJ can work or not. In the hands of the right person, it obviously can. See Joe.

Now that he and many others are doing it every day it is only a matter of time that others will join the ranks of Young, McGraw Hill, Gannet, CNN, NBC, ABC, and others. It's not three stations Nino. Count again.

 

[Chicago Dog]

Dearest Fox,

The OMB/VJ system failed. Get over it, you freaking whack-job.

With love and a truckload of pity,

Chicago Dog

 

[verdantFOX]

Dog:

You sir are a fool.

 

[Chicago Dog]

You're missing a few commas there, son.

KRON cancelled yet another newscast, by the way. Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of success!

 

[verdantFOX]

Yes and if KRON success were vital to VJ expanding, it might be important. Despite that fact that Young is in disarray other groups have adopted VJ. Take whatever joy you might in the problems with KRON, but it has made little difference to the expansion of VJ. That's a fact and only you could deny it.

 

[Chicago Dog]

Yes and if KRON success were vital to VJ expanding, it might be important. Despite that fact that Young is in disarray other groups have adopted VJ. Take whatever joy you might in the problems with KRON, but it has made little difference to the expansion of VJ. That's a fact and only you could deny it.

I'm in disbelief.

KRON is bombing out: their 8pm newscast was just cancelled. Its parent company, Young Broadcasting, was delisted last week. Yet, you can somehow claim the OMB/VJ system is "the way to go" and "is expanding."

Let's evaluate:

First, you continue to buy into the buzzword "VJ." VJ = OMB, plain and simple. Rosenblum claims one of the differences between VJs and OMBs is running around without using a tripod. Not using a tripod doesn't make you an entirely different class of employee. Intentionally avoiding the use of a very important tool in your arsenal makes you an idiot, plain and simple.

Joe uses a tripod. He does stand-ups. According to Rosenblum's criteria, Joe Little is not a VJ. He's a OMB. He is a poor example of your argument, yet you continue to use him as an example. It's funny how you have absolutely no problem moving the target around while simultaneously accusing others of doing the exact same thing.

Second, OMB is nothing new. You're the only idiot to actually buy into the crap that it's "expanding" and that "word is flowing to smaller markets." Exactly where do you think OMBs started? Ninety-five percent of the reporters I've worked with were OMBs in their first markets. One hundred percent of them went to their next markets (and a handful of markets later) strictly as reporters. One hundred percent of them are still reporters today.

I find it utterly hilarious that you think this is "expanding." To someone so ignorant, it would certainly look that way. To someone actually working in news, you look like a naïve, inexperienced fool.

Your view is skewed and illogical. You move targets around and scream about fact when you don't even prove fact yourself. You claim everything is going as you've predicted when you don't realize it's already been in existence long before you came around with your idiot claims.

And you claim I'm a fool?

"Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Failure, failure, failure. Yet, you claim "success."

 

[verdantFOX]

Let's evaluate. Young was the first to adopt VJ. They did so as a cost cutting measure. They cut costs and increased productivity by adopting VJ. No matter how innovative or successful, however, it alone could not bail out a badly led company that paid way too much for KRON.

What did we learn? VJ could work, but it alone could not make up for an $800 million blunder.

We have also learned that you are a fool if you believe that VJ is the cause of Young's problems. You sir are a fool.

 

[cameragod]

But Young were not the first. There were others for example like London Channel One. They spent a small fortune training 42 people young and aggressive believers hired specifically as VJ’s. Trained by Michael to enact his VJ vision. 42 people out of a job when it failed so badly most of them left it off their CV when looking for more work. Fox, VJ stations failing isn’t an aberration, it’s the norm.

Here is a rose tinted look at London Channel One

 

[verdantFOX]

CG:

You're right about KRON not being first. I apologize for my America-centric statement. Others, especially in Europe were first. KRON and WKRN were the first in the US in larger markets to go VJ.