Toying with LED lights.

Nino

Well-known member
Since LED lights started appearing on the market I’ve been trying to find a reason to buy some. Convenience is the only upside that I can justify LED use but for that a lot of quality must be sacrificed and quality is much more important to me than my convenience.

There was an area however that I always felt those conveniences would be very useful.

Since the NBA’s Orlando Magic last season run to the championship they’ve been getting a lot more than normal media coverage and I find myself doing considerably more courtside pre-and post game coverage than ever before. This is where I found LED lights very useful.

Lightweight, quick and easy to set up and most important we don’t have to worry about looking for those hard to find electrical outlets, they have self contained power via V mount batteries (I hate wires running across the floor). As a test I bought two of the least expensive that I could find, the Cool Lights, 2 lights for about $1100 and I got to use them for the first time on Xmas day game. They did the job and did it well.

The talent was about 6 feet from the camera and the lights with the supplied diffuser at F8 gave me enough power to create a good separation from the background while still maintaining the effect of the existing arena lights, actually I had to dim the LED down a little. Colors were also very close to the arena lights, I was getting a reading of 5200K and on the monitor I did not noticed any major problem. Under those conditions lighting is far from perfect anyway.

As a result I’m putting together a quick set up, totally wireless LED light kit for this sort of things. I just ordered two Zylights Z90 as on camera fill and one as back or hair light. I figure that with the color adjustment versatility of the Zylights I’ll be able to match whatever the larger LCD color output is. It should be 5600K but when they come with green correction filters you know that colors might be a bit off.

I’ll keep you posted.
 

grinner

Well-known member
gotta love em.
Cheap too. Having wireless lights creates a lot of freedom for creativity. From remote dark places to venues with large, cable-trippin' crowds, man the do make life easy.
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
I think that is one of the biggest things going for LED lights right now, their huge power savings. The color issues I've had against them are starting to improve, but I still find it odd that a lot of people put plus green gels on the LED's when using them under stadium type lighting when most that I've seen have a green push anyway. One of my friends has some IDX LED top lights and they have a bad green push(ALL IDX LED top light I've ever seen are like this), we put some minus green(pink), maybe 1/4 or 1/2, on his and it helped it a lot.
 

Necktie Boy

Well-known member
Happy Holidays Nino!

What models of CoolLights did you go with? And it sound that you picked up the daylight version? I read that the daylights put out a brighter light than the 32k version. What do you think of the build? Light quaility?

Thanks
 

zac love

Well-known member
I'm really wanting to go more LED, just the money thing for any new purchases is hard right now. But if you are doing well enough to invest in new gear, get ahead of the trend & help bring the cost down for the rest of us in the future.

The only down side I really see to purchasing LED lights, is that I predict that they could make all the Arri's & such go the way of BetaCam SP. Unless Arri / Lowel / Osram / etc figures out a way to make LED bulbs that fit into hot lights w/ the same amount of performance, now that would be great!

But in the short run, I think cameras like the EX1 / HVX, LED lights are the way to go. I personally don't like carrying around a battery bag / belt just for a Frezzi, if I'm using a small camera, give me a camera light that works with the camera.
 

2 Hungry Dogs

Well-known member
One great use of LEDs I saw was a canadian videographer during storm coverage. He took two small LED lights mounted them on a lightstand and wrapped them with a clear trash bag. Since there was no heat the plastic doesn't melt, and they were as waterproof as my Bron. Plus since they were on batteries, no cables either.
 

Nino

Well-known member
Here’s a thread that I posted earlier this year about on camera LED lights.

http://www.b-roll.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23602

And here’s one that I posted after NAB this year, about large LED lights.

http://www.b-roll.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23569

Even if they would be priced the equivalent of Rifa or Chimera lights my opinion on these lights remains unchanged. They are a great addition but not a substitution. They don’t provide the quality of light that I need but they make my life easier in specific areas.

The two Cool lights that I just got are the 5600 spot and I use them with the diffusion that comes with the lights, which is a small piece of those 2x4’ that you see on overhead fluorescent fixtures, it does the job. Surprisingly for this low price the Cool Lights have four switches that control banks of LEDs plus a dimmer; they come with barn doors and a set of hard filters, you can also choose either a AB or V battery mount. Richard of Cool Lights also added at no charge soft boxes that I didn’t get the chance to try yet. Not a bad deal at all. It doesn’t have all the color adjustment of the more expensive ones and I don’t know how well they’ll take ENG abuses, but I can buy six Cool Lights for the price of one of the fancier ones and create my own color environment if I really have to. Looks like they are well built; nothing fancy but neither is the price.

I would love to have one of each from each manufacturer and make comparisons between LED lights and also with standard lights. I offered to do it to every manufacturer, they all told me that they’ll send me one but it never happened.

As I said, they are not a substitute for my current lights, far from it, but for certain situation they are extremely advantageous.
 

2000lux

Well-known member
I've been thinking about skipping fluorescents and going straight to LEDs. I'd be far less worried about breaking bulbs, and of course one can power them with a battery.

$300? That's a pretty good price for that light (relative to the other options)! A free soft box doesn't hurt either. Do you feel it put out enough light to use as a key with the soft box on? Is it basically like a 250W Rifa?

I think I would be more comfortable using these lights with a soft box. Otherwise your really don't have much control of the spill.

I've been eyeing this one from Flolight which allegedly has a 1K output. It's also dimable. I figure it would be bright enough to use for a lot of applications. LED lights have such a dramatic fall off (short range) that I thought more power would help.

I saw it at a trade show and it looked pretty decent, solidly made etc. The color temp was right at about 5600 so you could use it at full power out side and then gel it for indoor use where you'd usually want a little less power out of it any way. I thought they would be nice for two camera interviews because they don't get so hot. They're $850 each though and I don't think they make a soft box for it so I'm holding off until I "need" one. ;)



I bought an Elation LED Fresnel light off e-bay. I figured a "500" W LED Fresnel would be a really cool (if you'll pardon the pun) versatile tool. The problems however are 1) that it weighs 10 pounds, and 2) that it has a cooling fan, which means it makes too much noise to use for interviews (or any thing else you'd be recording sound on)! It's really a stage light. I laugh at my self every time I look at it. I'm trying to find a local theatre I can sell / donate it to.

 
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2000lux

Well-known member
I was just at a lighting store and got a chance to play with the Litepannels 1X1 and the Rosco lights. The Rosco ones aren't quite as bright but they are very nifty. I love how thin and light they are. You could put them anywhere! They're going to make a 2'X2' that should be ok for an interview key light. For $300 though, I might consider getting one or two of the Cool Lights ones to experiment with.

So many fabulous toys to get. All it takes is money! Which of course is in short supply for everyone these days.
 

Flaca Productions

Well-known member
the rosco offering are the litepads - very interesting for sure.
i have the quick kit - and use it for various things; a nice interview kicker, tabletop stuff, car interiors, interview eyelights and/or uplights and highlighting things on shelves behind interview subjects (because you can sit them flat on the shelf). they're really small and light - and dimmable. they can be powered off of almost anything from AAs to camera batts to AC.

http://www.rosco.com/promotions/litepadkits/

speaking of LEDs - i just bought little LED "candles" that flicker like real candles. i figure i'll keep em around for backgrounds of interviews....thank you local hardware store. no mess, no heat, no change in their looks as they 'burn'....
 
I figure it is only a matter of time until the output on the higher output led lights is enough that they can start putting out fresnel type lights in the 300 or 600 watt range. One thing I found out with the led xmas lights is that they could be dimmed without any color shift. Though I can't remember if dimming is supposed to be bad long term or not?
 

joecam147

Well-known member
The flolights look interesting...it would be nice to see the mount and controls as well...I swear by the Litepanels 1X1 and camera mount leds...the best with power consumption and perfect indoors...if they ever get one punchy enough for outside lookout...
 

Cameradude

Well-known member
I bought some fluorescents a few months back and they have become my primary lighting source on most shoots. The LED are nice, and like the flo-lights, I like the limited amount of power they draw, This comes in handy in residential situations. I will probably be adding some on my next "IRS avoidance spending spree".
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
I'm ordering some Kino's in the morning(IRS avoidance spending spree) and just got a quote on some 1x1 light panels. May pull the trigger on 1 or 2 of those babies, too. The fact that you can slap a battery on them and rock 'n roll is what really has me looking at them hard.
 

Nino

Well-known member
I'm ordering some Kino's in the morning(IRS avoidance spending spree) and just got a quote on some 1x1 light panels. May pull the trigger on 1 or 2 of those babies, too. The fact that you can slap a battery on them and rock 'n roll is what really has me looking at them hard.
I guess Bristol was good to us this year, I've been on a shopping spree since I met with my accountant last week. After years of using softboxes I decided for 2010 to go mostly fluorescent. Among other toys I added a 4ft Kino and 2 200 Barfly to my Lowel Caselights. Let's see how long this will last before I go back to softboxes again. LEDs are not there yet.
 

Stoney

Well-known member
I think the technology for very bright LED's does exist. Every time I cross the Richmond San Rafael bridge at night, I think about the new, bright LED street lamps that Caltrans installed. Those things are bright and they are 40 feet above the roadway... so the technology is out there. I'd like to take a look at one of those lampheads and see what is in there. One thing, though, is that they are a very weird color.

I've shot a lot with the lightpanels camera light, the long, narrow one. They have issues with reliable dimmer knobs and their cables like to short out cameras. I've experienced both problems, multiple times. Plus, they are heavy... and with battery packs, forget it on the camera. I'm not a fan in those instances but, for fill in a car scene... can't be beat for ease of use.

For now, it is mostly KinoFlo with softboxes on the day to day shoots.
 
I think the technology for very bright LED's does exist. Every time I cross the Richmond San Rafael bridge at night, I think about the new, bright LED street lamps that Caltrans installed. Those things are bright and they are 40 feet above the roadway... so the technology is out there. I'd like to take a look at one of those lampheads and see what is in there. One thing, though, is that they are a very weird color.

I've shot a lot with the lightpanels camera light, the long, narrow one. They have issues with reliable dimmer knobs and their cables like to short out cameras. I've experienced both problems, multiple times. Plus, they are heavy... and with battery packs, forget it on the camera. I'm not a fan in those instances but, for fill in a car scene... can't be beat for ease of use.

For now, it is mostly KinoFlo with softboxes on the day to day shoots.
This got me looking and Cree makes a 430 lumen led that if I am not mucking up the math here is about equal to a 300 watt omni light.

http://ledsupply.com/creemce.php

I should think that a couple of these and converting a lensed light like the ARRI would be fairly simple. Though the question at that point would be one of whether the fresnel lens would kick up the punch to project the light longer distances. Actually at 30 a piece I might try making a replacement bulb to drop in one of my omni's. Is my assumption here correct?
 

Nino

Well-known member
A update on the Cool Lights.

Today I finally got a day off and my first chance to try the softbox that Richard from Cool Light was so kind to send me to try out on his LED lights. As I said in the past, the main problem that I have with LED ligths is that they are too small and don't give me the wraparound lighting that I need for interviews. This softbox however goes a long way to alleviate that shortcoming. It assembles and mounts on the light in a minute. It doesn't have any rods but works like a collapsible flexfill. The surface area is about 21x21 inches and surprisingly the power output is more than sufficient for a standard interview, I might even have to dim it down a bit. The box also has a grid available to reduce spills.

I will definitely give it a good workout in the coming weeks.

Stay tuned.
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
Nino, they were. I feel blessed. Now if I could just keep Uncle Sam from reaching as far down into my pockets as he does... LOL. Also pulled the trigger on a 1x1 LED Light Panel, to try out. Everything just came in, so I'll probably play with my new toys tomorrow(2x 400 Diva Kit and 1x1 LED Light Panel). I was hoping to get to try them out in the real world Monday on a shoot with Cameradude, but they cut back, and I'll just stick with my tried and true BronKobold 800 at the game Sunday. No use to change the formula that works on the last game of the season... :)
 

Necktie Boy

Well-known member
Happy New Year, Nino,

Does the dimmer change the color temp of the LED's?

With the soft boxes, the "harshness" of the LED's are soften?
 
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