VJ Standups
- Thread starter Lensmith
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Michaelrosenblum
Well-known member
Actually, channel one in London worked quite well as a production model. Particularly when you consider that we built it in 1994. The technology has advanced a good deal since then.
Channel One's biggest problem was that cable in London only had a penetration of 35,000 homes. Sir David English and Associated Newspapers were way ahead of their time. The VJs who went through the training learned valuable skills that stood them in good stead for their future careers, and many of them have gone on to great success at ITN, Sky and The BBC.
At the same time as we built Channel One we also built TeleZuri in switzerland which under the leadership of Roger Schawinski grew to become TV24, the largest national commercial station in the country.
Channel One's biggest problem was that cable in London only had a penetration of 35,000 homes. Sir David English and Associated Newspapers were way ahead of their time. The VJs who went through the training learned valuable skills that stood them in good stead for their future careers, and many of them have gone on to great success at ITN, Sky and The BBC.
At the same time as we built Channel One we also built TeleZuri in switzerland which under the leadership of Roger Schawinski grew to become TV24, the largest national commercial station in the country.
Chicago Dog
Well-known member
THANK YOU. The obvious is staring Fox in the face, and he still has the gonads to think this system can work? How is that remotely possible when the so-called "messiah" of the movement can't even get it to work?
His station didn't cover the Pope Benedict XVI's visit to DC. We've heard nothing from his station about the inauguration. His station doesn't even have a website. He posted three stories by three of his OMB/VJs. They were ridiculed so thoroughly that he pulled them off the internet.
And that's just a tiny shop.
If it were even remotely productive, you bet your ass Rosenblum would be here spinning it. He'd be slapping "success" all over it. You don't have to be a genius to realize that it's a failure, just like WKRN and KRON.
The system has failed on multiple levels and on multiple scopes. It takes an oblivious idiot to think anything about the system is successful.
We're not talking about outside of the United States, Mike.
One of these days, maybe you'll pay attention to the actual topic at-hand instead of trying to commandeer the thread.
Of course, if you really feel like taking it off-topic, you can explain why you incorrectly and irresponsibly accused me of anti-semitism, pig.
Michaelrosenblum
Well-known member
That was not a quote from me. Like much of what you post here, pure fiction
cameragod
Well-known member
Actually the biggest problem with Channel One was it was awful.
My first week in London I was vox-pop’ed in the street by a C1 VJ on the burning issue of whether Londoner’s are sexually adventurous or not… news at it’s hardest
C1 VJ’s were so good that for a few years ITN and the BBC band the hire of them because many were seen as full of attitude and low on ability. Something a few ex-C1ers proved when I was tasked with fixing some of thier story's at C5.
Some of the better one's still made it in the industry despite their tainted past. I’m glad they did.
I know you are a big fan of the “fail faster†philosophy Michael but here is a clue that could save you time. The glaring links between all the VJ failures… is’t the VJ’s.
As to TeleZuri, its not hard to be the best local news channel somewhere you are the only local news channel.
My first week in London I was vox-pop’ed in the street by a C1 VJ on the burning issue of whether Londoner’s are sexually adventurous or not… news at it’s hardest
C1 VJ’s were so good that for a few years ITN and the BBC band the hire of them because many were seen as full of attitude and low on ability. Something a few ex-C1ers proved when I was tasked with fixing some of thier story's at C5.
Some of the better one's still made it in the industry despite their tainted past. I’m glad they did.
I know you are a big fan of the “fail faster†philosophy Michael but here is a clue that could save you time. The glaring links between all the VJ failures… is’t the VJ’s.
As to TeleZuri, its not hard to be the best local news channel somewhere you are the only local news channel.
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Chicago Dog
Well-known member
Interesting -- I guess some people are strangers to sarcasm!
And, of everyone here, you're the absolute last person to claim someone's posting "pure fiction." Your quote in my signature line is an excellent example.
verdantFOX
Well-known member
CG:
Is it not true more stations and groups in the US are adopting VJ?
Is it not true more stations and groups in the US are adopting VJ?
Chicago Dog
Well-known member
Is it not true that you refuse to post KRON's numbers because you know they're failing?
Now that the Super Bowl's over, I'm sitting in the chat room. Feel free to pop in.
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FOX, it’s easy to associate the financial problems of Young to KRON and use those as excuses for KRON poor performance, but don’t forget that KRON was for sale as KRON and not as Young. The sale did not include Young’s debt; the sale was for KRON assets include financial performance as a stand alone operation. Apparently the switch to VJ did not impress potential buyers. Young went as far as excluding KRON from their annual financial report meaning that KRON books had nothing to do with Young problems. If they could not find a buyer it only meant that VJ or not the operation itself has a poor financial performance and no potential future. What Young paid for KRON has nothing to do with the asking price. The value of a company is set by auditors following specific accounting formulas, be assured that stupidity and mistakes are not part of the formula.
Done properly and with the right people the OMB concept could be well integrated into the newsroom as it has been for years but it will never succeed as a total substitution. Smart stations have seen all too well the crap being done by most inexperienced and untrained VJs, this is why we have 3 stations out of 4000 that made the complete switch. It will take more than just the occasional token of acceptable work paraded by Rosenblum to convince the rest of the stations that what MR does works, after all how many times can Mike parade BF Bentley, he must be getting royalties for the usage of his name. It takes more than just a few days of training to become a photographer and most people just don’t have what it takes. It has been proven with medical studies that creative people have substantially more activities in the portion of the brain believed to control creativity, the more the activities the more the creativity. This is why we have master artists while most people could not draw a 2 inch straight line. This is why some photographer do very well while others can hardly make ends meet. We don’t have to travel very far to see some of these evidences; Rosenblum himself with all his alleged education still can’t create even the most elementary composed and balanced image. Every piece of work that he has shown with pride or has done himself can only be classified as less than basic. Is not until somebody points out what was wrong with those images that he finally understand and backs off talking quality, then a week later he starts over again. This is not a fault, some people just don’t have it, and this is why the complete newsroom changeover will never work. Those who are capable of producing good work will never settle for substandard wages, and if they are talented there will always be somebody willing to pay them more and in effect killing the VJ concept of cheap labor. This sort of short term solution mentality and bad journalism will be an open invitation for opportunistic competing stations who will capitalize on this shortcoming. This bad economy will not last forever and cheap labor will no longer be a priority.
Let’s not forget that few years have gone by since Rosenblum has switched any stations to VJ and any station looking at the performance of MR’s own operation in Washington will think twice before making the switch. As Rosenblum have discovered, even cheap becomes very expensive when nobody is watching.
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verdantFOX
Well-known member
Nino:
Your analysis of Young's failure to sell KRON is spurious at best and completely wrong at worst. There are many reasons KRON did not sell and you should know that. Not one of them was VJ. While we may transfixed with the issue on this and other boards, for potential owners it is the profitability of the station that matters, not VJ. And try as you might to prove otherwise, VJ allowed KRON/Young to cut expenses significantly without a loss of ratings. They did so while increasing the amount of people on the street.
KRON didn't sell because no one could see making it work with huge syndication deals, a market in steep decline in both ratings and revenue, and a credit crisis.
Also try as you might to prove otherwise, there are good VJs at KRON. In my opinion, they do at least as well covering day-to-day news as the two-person crews at the other stations. In fact, if they were so demonstrably horrible as you believe, why would KNTV the NBC O&O in San Francisco be in the process of converting to VJ?
If the quality was so bad why have other groups begun to convert? If they are such a disaster, why are more groups announcing they are integrating VJ into their operations? The position you and others take that a 100% VJ operation cannot work goes against the reality of three plus years of KRON doing just what you say can't be done.
The people who run Young may be fools, but then so are the people at Gannet, McGraw-Hill, ABC, NBC, and others.
Young paid too much for KRON at exactly the top of the market. Way too much. It was a stupid, arrogant, and foolish purchase. It quite possibly was the dumbest deal in the history of broadcasting. But if you choose to lump in the people who work at KRON with the knuckleheads that own it, then you overlook the remarkable job those people are doing in extremely difficult circumstances. They didn't pay $800 million for the station, they just work there.
That said, they are making VJ work. I see it almost every day. You don't and it's easy for you from a distance to underestimate what they've accomplished. Joe is exceptional, but there are very good people at KRON who are not young and just out of school or inexperienced, they are journalists who VJ.
Your analysis of Young's failure to sell KRON is spurious at best and completely wrong at worst. There are many reasons KRON did not sell and you should know that. Not one of them was VJ. While we may transfixed with the issue on this and other boards, for potential owners it is the profitability of the station that matters, not VJ. And try as you might to prove otherwise, VJ allowed KRON/Young to cut expenses significantly without a loss of ratings. They did so while increasing the amount of people on the street.
KRON didn't sell because no one could see making it work with huge syndication deals, a market in steep decline in both ratings and revenue, and a credit crisis.
Also try as you might to prove otherwise, there are good VJs at KRON. In my opinion, they do at least as well covering day-to-day news as the two-person crews at the other stations. In fact, if they were so demonstrably horrible as you believe, why would KNTV the NBC O&O in San Francisco be in the process of converting to VJ?
If the quality was so bad why have other groups begun to convert? If they are such a disaster, why are more groups announcing they are integrating VJ into their operations? The position you and others take that a 100% VJ operation cannot work goes against the reality of three plus years of KRON doing just what you say can't be done.
The people who run Young may be fools, but then so are the people at Gannet, McGraw-Hill, ABC, NBC, and others.
Young paid too much for KRON at exactly the top of the market. Way too much. It was a stupid, arrogant, and foolish purchase. It quite possibly was the dumbest deal in the history of broadcasting. But if you choose to lump in the people who work at KRON with the knuckleheads that own it, then you overlook the remarkable job those people are doing in extremely difficult circumstances. They didn't pay $800 million for the station, they just work there.
That said, they are making VJ work. I see it almost every day. You don't and it's easy for you from a distance to underestimate what they've accomplished. Joe is exceptional, but there are very good people at KRON who are not young and just out of school or inexperienced, they are journalists who VJ.
cameragod
Well-known member
To be honest Fox I’m amazed there are not a lot more VJ stations out there. I thought I would appeal to enough shallow vapid drones in management that it would be everywhere… but I guess they are not as shallow and vapid as I thought.
I’m not denying that there are good VJ’s OMB’s whatever out there. It’s just not possible to get enough of them together to make up a whole station so it’s a failure before it even started.
I’m not denying that there are good VJ’s OMB’s whatever out there. It’s just not possible to get enough of them together to make up a whole station so it’s a failure before it even started.
Michaelrosenblum
Well-known member
Channel One
I have to say that sometimes you remind me a bit of my ex-wife, dredging up things that happened 15 years ago!!!
The technology and the technique have changed a LOT since then.
Dear StephenActually the biggest problem with Channel One was it was awful.
My first week in London I was vox-pop’ed in the street by a C1 VJ on the burning issue of whether Londoner’s are sexually adventurous or not… news at it’s hardest
C1 VJ’s were so good that for a few years ITN and the BBC band the hire of them because many were seen as full of attitude and low on ability. Something a few ex-C1ers proved when I was tasked with fixing some of thier story's at C5.
Some of the better one's still made it in the industry despite their tainted past. I’m glad they did.
I know you are a big fan of the “fail faster†philosophy Michael but here is a clue that could save you time. The glaring links between all the VJ failures… is’t the VJ’s.
As to TeleZuri, its not hard to be the best local news channel somewhere you are the only local news channel.
I have to say that sometimes you remind me a bit of my ex-wife, dredging up things that happened 15 years ago!!!
The technology and the technique have changed a LOT since then.
verdantFOX
Well-known member
CG:
I think the reason you've seen VJs at KRON and WKRN and not at other groups is for exactly the same reason -- fear. Young did it out of a sense of desperation and a willingness to try anything to save themselves. But other groups, the less desperate ones, were more fearful of what going VJ would mean than of going out of business.
To do what WKRN and KRON takes a combination of commitment, vision, and utter desperation. As much criticism as the GM and ND at WKRN have taken, I think it took guts to make this move. They were reviled by much of the industry for doing it and there was a presumption of failure. Still, someone had to be first and you can reasonably call the move insanity or gutsy. There are strong arguments for both.
In the end, I believe it was fear that made it happen. Other groups could afford to sit back and observe since they thought they had more time. If it worked, others could adopt it without any expense to their reputation, if it didn't work they could safely condemn the people involved with the VJ experiment from afar.
What has changed over the last six months is that everyone is now desperate. It's still an unattractive option to most groups, but I guarantee you that everyone has at least considered what it would take to go VJ.
I think the reason you've seen VJs at KRON and WKRN and not at other groups is for exactly the same reason -- fear. Young did it out of a sense of desperation and a willingness to try anything to save themselves. But other groups, the less desperate ones, were more fearful of what going VJ would mean than of going out of business.
To do what WKRN and KRON takes a combination of commitment, vision, and utter desperation. As much criticism as the GM and ND at WKRN have taken, I think it took guts to make this move. They were reviled by much of the industry for doing it and there was a presumption of failure. Still, someone had to be first and you can reasonably call the move insanity or gutsy. There are strong arguments for both.
In the end, I believe it was fear that made it happen. Other groups could afford to sit back and observe since they thought they had more time. If it worked, others could adopt it without any expense to their reputation, if it didn't work they could safely condemn the people involved with the VJ experiment from afar.
What has changed over the last six months is that everyone is now desperate. It's still an unattractive option to most groups, but I guarantee you that everyone has at least considered what it would take to go VJ.
cameragod
Well-known member
Michael [FONT="]there is no statute of limitations on a bad idea, [/FONT]I hope for the sake of your new wife you have learnt from the mistakes you made with your ex no matter how long ago you made them.
Technology will not fix bad lighting techniques or poor writing. You should spend more time training instead of indoctrinating.
Fox I don’t think anyone really fears the VJ station. It’s a bit like watching a competitor in a marathon cut of one leg because they keep twisting their ankle and they think it will reduce weight… I don’t fear them, I pity them… and want to move away from the hacksaw.
Technology will not fix bad lighting techniques or poor writing. You should spend more time training instead of indoctrinating.
Fox I don’t think anyone really fears the VJ station. It’s a bit like watching a competitor in a marathon cut of one leg because they keep twisting their ankle and they think it will reduce weight… I don’t fear them, I pity them… and want to move away from the hacksaw.
Michaelrosenblum
Well-known member
ha ha.Michael [FONT="]there is no statute of limitations on a bad idea, [/FONT]I hope for the sake of your new wife you have learnt from the mistakes you made with your ex no matter how long ago you made them.
Technology will not fix bad lighting techniques or poor writing. You should spend more time training instead of indoctrinating.
So far, so good.
And this is one place where OMB simply does not cut it.
verdantFOX
Well-known member
CG:
I think you misunderstand me. The fear I'm writing of is the fear station managers and owners feel at the PROSPECT of going to VJ. It's much easier to do nothing, stick with what they know and hope for the best. Young didn't have that option. They had to do something dramatic to stay competitive with fewer people than the other stations. They chose VJ.
Most groups are not in the same hideous financial position as Young. Most station managers would never dream of blowing up a 50 year-old model unless they had no alternative. It is reasonable to conclude that the managers of Young's largest stations KRON and WKRN were given directives to cut expenses in a draconian fashion. When they looked at the budget they were given to operate their news departments they knew it would be impossible to continue to compete while operating with the traditional system.
Answer: VJ.
I'm mean think about it. Imagine you're the GM at KRON or WKRN. You can now spend less than half the money (I'd guess) that your competitors spend on newscasts. But your instructions from corporate are to compete and not lose ratings or revenue. Now that's a pretty ridiculous and possibly irrational instruction, but those are probably the one they got.
So what do you do in their position? They probably came to the only option available to them -- VJ.
Most groups still have the luxury of an options, but the worse things get, them more stations are going to take the leap. That's what you're seeing now. I predict more will begin converting and the process will accelerate over time.
Just my opinion though.
I think you misunderstand me. The fear I'm writing of is the fear station managers and owners feel at the PROSPECT of going to VJ. It's much easier to do nothing, stick with what they know and hope for the best. Young didn't have that option. They had to do something dramatic to stay competitive with fewer people than the other stations. They chose VJ.
Most groups are not in the same hideous financial position as Young. Most station managers would never dream of blowing up a 50 year-old model unless they had no alternative. It is reasonable to conclude that the managers of Young's largest stations KRON and WKRN were given directives to cut expenses in a draconian fashion. When they looked at the budget they were given to operate their news departments they knew it would be impossible to continue to compete while operating with the traditional system.
Answer: VJ.
I'm mean think about it. Imagine you're the GM at KRON or WKRN. You can now spend less than half the money (I'd guess) that your competitors spend on newscasts. But your instructions from corporate are to compete and not lose ratings or revenue. Now that's a pretty ridiculous and possibly irrational instruction, but those are probably the one they got.
So what do you do in their position? They probably came to the only option available to them -- VJ.
Most groups still have the luxury of an options, but the worse things get, them more stations are going to take the leap. That's what you're seeing now. I predict more will begin converting and the process will accelerate over time.
Just my opinion though.
cameragod
Well-known member
Saving money is just part of the equation. What is VJ costing them in lost revenue? Who will bet on the one-legged maniac hopping around with the bleeding hacksaw saying “look what I’ve savedâ€
VJ was an easier choice than actually working at real solutions to fix the problems.
VJ was an easier choice than actually working at real solutions to fix the problems.
Now his makes a lot of sense, thanks for explaining it to us.
So if this was a desperation move to save money and as you've been saying it was a successful move, so why didn't Young made the conversion to all their stations, I believe they own 11 and only 2 of them made the conversion? Is not that Young stopped the bleeding after making those conversions and now everything is good, the company is in deep trouble and it takes no genius to figure that if the saving was real without effecting their rating they would have done it to their other stations in a hearth beat. I hope you understand that you make no sense. Any idiot can figure that the conversion did not worked out in the way Rosenblum had predicted and the only one who came ahead was Rosenblum himself, see the Newark Star Ledger if you want to see another VJ flap of a company that paid Rosenblum a small fortune and got disaster in return.
Michaelrosenblum
Well-known member
You may know something about studio lighting, but what you know about the Star Ledger I could put in a thimble. You should stick to what you know how to do and stay away from that which you barely understand.
Chicago Dog
Well-known member
We've been saying the exact same thing about you and local news for years. Nino is proactive. You can't even run a five-OMB/VJ shop without it producing unwatchable garbage.