verdantFOX
Well-known member
You're right Dog
It's all over for VJs.
It's all over for VJs.
That's a very predictable response. Why? Because you don't even put up a fight. If you think I'm wrong, at least put some sort of effort into what you believe. You're admitting to my assertiveness by copping out with lame, predictable sarcasm.verdantFOX said:It's all over for VJs.
Accurate, yes. Predictable, no. Called you on it, yes.verdantFOX said:Dog, your observation about my response to you was both accurate and just as predictable.
From the News Photographer magazine follow-up OMB/VJ article, written by Karin Schwanbeck:verdantFOX said:Answer: MR may be a charlatan, but I don't believe he is without experience.Chicago Dog said:1. The system was pitched by a "guru" who has no local news experience whatsoever. None.
Lucas says his complaint about Rosenblum is that he has never worked in a newsroom and he doesn't understand the daily grind.
This is an incredibly poor analogy. Aerospace engineers still must understand the dynamics of flight.verdantFOX said:Still you don't have to be a pilot to design an airplane.
Do you read anything Alex Lucas is writing? He's there with first-hand knowledge.verdantFOX said:Answer: I don't know how many left when. I wasn't there at the time. Neither were you.Chicago Dog said:2. Both WKRN and KRON had their staff trained when the OMB/VJ experiment began. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the staff decided to leave after they gave the OMB/VJ system a shot.
From this thread:verdantFOX said:Answer: Interesting perspective, but I've seen little evidence people having their "asses handed to them" here in SF.Chicago Dog said:3. They were tired of having their asses handed to them by other stations and their own management, proving that only failing management teams would use such a ridiculous set-up.
How is WKRN going to be any different from KRON? Same ownership. Same management style. Same "innovative" system. Why is a "quagmire of underperforming, self-important media organizations" used as base-of-reference? Better yet, how can you aptly say the OMB/VJ system will do well when you associate it to looking up-to-par with "underperforming, self-important media organizations?"AlexLucas said:They should have learned their lesson. You can't make a one man band arrive late, fight with a live double crew every day, and then yell at them about the other guys superior live product, and expect them to stay.
One man just can't carry the world on his shoulders, while the bosses sit around and call themselves innovators in the press.
Do you realize you've just disproved your entire argument with that conflicting idea?verdantFOX said:... they suck about the same as everyone here. So they are at least competitive.
Sorry to say, but that's not a compliment. That's like getting beaten in a sporting event and saying, "Well, at least we didn't lose by a landslide."verdantFOX said:... he or she was surprised KRON looked as good they did ...
Hmm... nope. Once again, did you read any of Lucas' posts? I'm honestly curious. Have you been following this topic at all lately?verdantFOX said:So I think your statement is full of unsubstantiated emotional conjecture and proves nothing. It is also typical of too many posts on the subject. Ignore the facts that don't support my strongly held popular opinion.
When someone's fleeing from the LAPD on four flat tires throwing sparks from the rims, do you honestly think they've still got a chance of evasion? Know how they better their chances of getting away from the cops? They ditch the car.verdantFOX said:Your case that the VJ thing is already a failure is also weak given the fact that KRON puts on VJ stories every day and there is no indication that will change.
What's there to accept? The OMB/VJ system may not be an absolute failure yet, but it's definitely circling the drain. That's undeniable fact.verdantFOX said:I'm not sure why that is so difficult for you to accept?
Although I said earlier that I didn't believe that management WANTED us to fail, I do believe that they EXPECTED many of us to fail. In fact, they NEEDED some of us to fail. They had said all along that they needed to cut staff.verdantFOX said:WC also mentioned that he or she didn't believe management wanted the VJs to fail and didn't indicate either way that the managers were a particular problem at KRON. Morale seems to be real bad at KRON. And that’s usually a sign of bad management. But WC could expand on that better than I. From what Alex says WKRN sounds like a mess.
Many of them didn't have a choice. For some it was a great opportunity. For others it was either give VJ a shot or lose your job. A good example of this is the editors at KRON were told that their jobs were going to be eliminated. The only option they had was to take the severance or sign up for VJ training.verdantFOX said:Both WKRN and KRON had their staff trained when the OMB/VJ experiment began. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the staff decided to leave after they gave the OMB/VJ system a shot.
Chicago Dog was right. That was not a compliment.verdantFOX said:WC did mention, however, that he or she was surprised KRON looked as good they did.
I don't agree with that. I don't think they do as good a job as the other stations in the market. I don't think they have the resources. It's unfortunate because they have some talented people on their staff.verdantFOX said:My observation from watching them is that they suck about the same as everyone here.
That won't happen. They'll just move to the next stage in this process: hiring 22 year olds with no experience. Isn't that what we've all been saying would happen?Baltimore Shooter said:Pretty soon, there won't be anyone at WKRN to run cameras, VJs or real Cameramen. Then management will have to figure out how to shoot. Won't that be funny.
That's a good point, but let me tell you this. There will always be photogs.Dink said:That won't happen. They'll just move to the next stage in this process: hiring 22 year olds with no experience. Isn't that what we've all been saying would happen?
Oh no! Say it ain't so!!! Quality doesn't matter anymore! People WANT to see grainy, shaky, out of focus, poorly lit, over modulated and pointless stories. They think that's the coolest! Rosenblum is gonna come over there and kick your ass!AlexLucas said:The management kept saying that it was being stolen by cable, and whatever. It was being lost, and taken by the smoother, cleaner, crisper, simpler, well-lit, informative station across the street...See? Quality counts in free television.
in the interest of fairness, i'd like to mention that WKRN was a BIG mess LONG before Rosenblum rode into town...he just tightened the screwsverdantFOX said:From what Alex says WKRN sounds like a mess.
They HAVE noticed the quality eroding. Why do you think viewership (read: ratings) have been declining in local news for many years. How do you think so many people are turning to the web for even thier local news? It's not "because the web is there", it's because the quality of news has been eroding, talking viewers with it. And of course, it's NEVER the NDs and GMs fault. They have to blame it on the web, newspapers, the bums on the street, the weather, anything but them. So what do they do? Hire a CONsultant and the cycle repeats itself.Dink said:So what about the quality? Viewers demand quality, right? Well, yes, but not if they don't realize the quality is eroding. If it's done gradually, viewers will come to accept the lower quality as normal, just as they have with shorter packages and lower quality journalism. Throw a frog in pot of boiling water, and he'll try to jump out; put him in cold water and heat it slowly, and he'll stay there 'til he dies.
It has failed when the stations have attempted to replace everyone with VJs all at once. You can't really say it has failed one by one, because there are those who have made it work, and there are stations that are trying to make it work on a small scale without risking the whole operation on it.NYC Street said:The bean counters have occasional temporary wins, but this experiment has failed so many times over that - absent a financial disaster like Young Broadcasting - it seems unlikely that GMs and NDs will adopt this.
From what I gather, people here don't like Rosenblum not because they feel as if he's after their jobs, but because he's cocky in the face of inevitable failure. Watching him drone on and on about how this system works in Sweden and how "it's only a matter of time" was really quite frustrating.formernews2er said:in the interest of fairness, i'd like to mention that WKRN was a BIG mess LONG before Rosenblum rode into town...he just tightened the screws
I think you're missing the point here.Dink said:It has failed when the stations have attempted to replace everyone with VJs all at once. You can't really say it has failed one by one, because there are those who have made it work, and there are stations that are trying to make it work on a small scale without risking the whole operation on it.
I'm still in awe that supporters of a system that's proven nothing but failure actually exist.AlexLucas said:This is not about anything but money.
MONEY. MONEY. MONEY.
No, I'm afraid you're the one missing the point. I never said anything about the failure having anything to do with inept employees. What I said was that the system failed at these two stations because it will not work as a comprehensive replacement for the current system.Chicago Dog said:I think you're missing the point here.
It fails at stations because it's an inept model -- not because the employees are inept.
The numbers might tank if you tried to replace your entire system with VJs. If it's done gradually, the way it is already happening, the ratings numbers won't be eroded as quickly as salary expenses.Chicago Dog said:Do I see our numbers tanking if the VJ system were implemented? Yes. Inversely, do I see numbers of the #2 - #4 stations not getting any better if they try it? The answer is also yes.
In both cases above, you're actually agreeing with me and don't realize it. In regard to #1, you're right, stations do use VJs sparingly, for now. But the point is that they're actually using them. As they learn how to use them, they'll use them more often. As they use them more often, they'll learn new ways to use them, and the news model we know now will change to make use of the cheaper system.Chicago Dog said:It doesn't fail at other stations for two reasons:
1. Small markets tend to use them every once-in-a-while.
* * *
2. Small markets don't make their entire stations OMB/VJ.
It's true small markets may have a few (read: few) number of OMBs. The two OMBs at my old station were in the bureaus. The stations' finances (read: finances) did not allow for a photog to be hired for a spot in the bureau.