I'm the VJ from the NPPA mag. Any questions?
- Thread starter AlexLucas
- Start date
Corporate Management
Well-known member
I'm still waiting for f'n ROSENBLUM to shed a little light on the matter.
Dirge
Well-known member
Don’t worry, you didn’t miss much. I watched it some time ago but it didn’t impress me. All features. There was a rather nicely done, very flashy, way too long piece on British speed dating but it appeared to be a news magazine story. Not a daily turn hard news story.NYC Street said:
There was also an “in depth†piece on some drug user. Personally, I don’t care for stories on druggies, but what pissed me off was that the storytelling was like a H.P. Lovecraft novel: there’s a beginning, middle, but no end.
The spider mating story was on there and a well crafted story on a blind craftsman. But if you’ve ever seen the blind hiker/mountain climber NPPA winning piece, it’s basically the same thing. Including the accidental bumping of the camera to prove that the dude is blind.
There was also a montage that pretty much copied the NPPA story telling mantra and a bunch of blokes going on about how great it is to be a VJ.
There were also a couple long ass boring pieces that I wound up fast forwarding through because they were so dull. They also had a bunch of jump cuts, backs of peoples’ heads, and unwarranted breakage of the 180 rule that just grated on me.
Young system wide.
Hey Alex, was Brian Grife involved in any of the vj decision making? I'm a former Young employee as well, we really saw the writing on the wall when he started his "simple and easy to understand" formula. Is he still involved in the news op out there. We saw our numbers start to drop when he took over as vp of news. Best wishes
Hey Alex, was Brian Grife involved in any of the vj decision making? I'm a former Young employee as well, we really saw the writing on the wall when he started his "simple and easy to understand" formula. Is he still involved in the news op out there. We saw our numbers start to drop when he took over as vp of news. Best wishes
pinecone
Well-known member
Nevermind.WestCoast said:
We aren't playing 20 questions here. If you have to ASK what we want to know - just forget it.
We were just looking for any kind of inside information from KRON to compare and contrast with the WKRN experience.
Send over the guy who fries bacon in the nude while editing his story at home. He was a wealth of information. Mostly propoganda, but some usable stuff was mixed in there.
WestCoast
Member
Kron
I didn't see the post about the guy who fries bacon in the nude while editing his story at home so I can't comment on that. Sorry.
Although I didn't like the idea of becoming a VJ, I promised my boss that I would at least keep an open mind and give it 100% before I decided it wasn't for me. I did it for 3 months before I made the decision to leave.
It just wasn't right for me. However, I don't fault anyone at KRON for sticking it out and trying to make it work. They are doing what's right for them.
Overall I don't feel that we (photographers and editors) were given the proper training to succeed. There was training on how to operate the camera and how to edit on Edius. And we talked about the basics of storytelling. But no one talked about how to actually write for TV news. I don't think management actually WANTED anyone to fail but there was a sink or swim mentality to the whole process. If you succeed? Great! If you fail? Well, we need to cut the budget somewhere. I think my ND was genuinely surprised that I left.
KRON's decision to go VJ was purely financial. And they have laid off many, many people since this started and even before it started. Most of the writers and part-time staff and all of the editors were let go. They are running on a such a small staff that honestly it's amazing the product looks as good as it does. Before going VJ morale was very low at KRON and this transition didn't help.
Regarding the pay increase at KRON, that was negotiated by IBEW and it was based on senority.
KRON has decided to return to traditional crews at night. I don't know how many crews or what prompted the change because they made that decision right before I left.
I think the one place the VJ model is working is in our bureaus. Our East Bay reporter Mark Jones is doing a great job and seems to like it. Our South Bay reporter is also doing well but I don't know that he likes it all that much.
I'm not sure if I covered everything and I apologize for any spelling errors.
When Buck asked someone from KRON to "shed a little light on the matter" I thought he was referring to something specific.pinecone said:
I didn't see the post about the guy who fries bacon in the nude while editing his story at home so I can't comment on that. Sorry.
When I read Alex's posts I found myself nodding my head and saying (to myself) "exactly". His experience was very similar to mine.Buck said:
Although I didn't like the idea of becoming a VJ, I promised my boss that I would at least keep an open mind and give it 100% before I decided it wasn't for me. I did it for 3 months before I made the decision to leave.
It just wasn't right for me. However, I don't fault anyone at KRON for sticking it out and trying to make it work. They are doing what's right for them.
Overall I don't feel that we (photographers and editors) were given the proper training to succeed. There was training on how to operate the camera and how to edit on Edius. And we talked about the basics of storytelling. But no one talked about how to actually write for TV news. I don't think management actually WANTED anyone to fail but there was a sink or swim mentality to the whole process. If you succeed? Great! If you fail? Well, we need to cut the budget somewhere. I think my ND was genuinely surprised that I left.
KRON's decision to go VJ was purely financial. And they have laid off many, many people since this started and even before it started. Most of the writers and part-time staff and all of the editors were let go. They are running on a such a small staff that honestly it's amazing the product looks as good as it does. Before going VJ morale was very low at KRON and this transition didn't help.
Regarding the pay increase at KRON, that was negotiated by IBEW and it was based on senority.
KRON has decided to return to traditional crews at night. I don't know how many crews or what prompted the change because they made that decision right before I left.
I think the one place the VJ model is working is in our bureaus. Our East Bay reporter Mark Jones is doing a great job and seems to like it. Our South Bay reporter is also doing well but I don't know that he likes it all that much.
I'm not sure if I covered everything and I apologize for any spelling errors.
AlexLucas
Well-known member
Honestly, regarding the training, the writing part of it was implied. The real truth of the matter was that if you couldn't operate the camera, then you were totally screwed. They focused just enough to know how to get you through the process, because it wasn't going to be three weeks of crumpets on the beach to learn how to title a story. It wasn't going to be a lesson in journalistic ethics and superiority in news. It was, "alright, everybody know how to do this? Good. Moving on to the next batch."WestCoast said:
'Sink or swim' was always the attitude they had about it. It was if management was staring at you the whole time, not assisting you, and saying, "if we keep the people that work out, and the others leave, so what? We don't really care if you've been here for twenty five years. We don't even remotely care."
The cameras just don't run at night. Period. They're passable in a lot of situations. Night definitely isn't one of them. So I totally understand what you mean by that.
pinecone
Well-known member
I misread the tone of your post. I thought you were playing games with us.WestCoast said:
Please accept my apology. I went into Dad mode. Having teenagers will do that to you.
I appreciate the information you, Alex and other VJ refugees are are giving us. For a long time all we got was propoganda and promises of a bright new future for VJ's. It is refreshing to get some detailed, personal experiences here on the board. It is not happy news, but it is the truth.
Thank guys and good luck.
Buck
Well-known member
Thanks, WC, for the insight as well.
Even one of Rosenblum's cronies seems to have died down with the vj talk. His blog has cobwebs on it:
http://www.blueprintpost.com/
Even one of Rosenblum's cronies seems to have died down with the vj talk. His blog has cobwebs on it:
http://www.blueprintpost.com/
Baltimore Shooter
Well-known member
Amen to that!Buck said:
Warren
formernews2er
Member
add three more to the "on their feet" listBluedog said:
one has accepted a similar position in a similar sized market, one has taken quite the promotion in Memphis, the other has been hired on at (big surprise) NewsChannel5
so, that makes 6 of the 12 that are here at NC5...we're like the News2 All-Stars!
that leaves 2 of the twelve that I know of that are M-I-A
everyone else seems to be OK
verdantFOX
Well-known member
declaring victory
I think all of us could learn a lesson from the US snowboarder today. Don't declare victory too early.
The posts from the VJs from WKRN and KRON give some insight as to why the VJ experiment failed for THEM. They are very honest and insightful. Thanks to both. But don't ignore the words of the former KRON VJ about this person's assessment that the model is WORKING at two of KRON's bureaus.
My point is that if it is working ANYWERE there is the potential that management tries to make it work EVERYWHERE. My guess is that management cares little if people quit or are fired as long as they can replace them with others who will make it work. Or better yet, not replace them at all and management can declare victory by saying "We gave everyone a chance to become a VJ and proof of that is Bob, Sally, and Bacon-man who are former photogs and now outstanding examples of the system working!" They won't mention that 25 people left or were fired. They don't care! But in the end the system works for them.
Don't you people see this coming? Most of you have already declared victory. VJs are dead! WKRN failed! KRON failed! We laugh at their arrogance and stupidity!
Guys, they haven't failed. I'm betting in management's eyes this whole thing is going swimmingly. While we're all celebrating, they have a handful of people who are making this work. That's all they care about! And that's all they need. They can build from that. If a photog makes it work, great! He gets a raise, and gets to stay. If not, so what? Out with old, in with the new VJ. And a cheaper one at that. Better yet, out with the old and we'll pocket the savings.
All of you are seriously underestimating the basic survival skills of MANAGEMENT. They don’t share our values and they don’t share our concerns. Hell, we’re all talking to the converted here.
I’ll ask both our former VJs. Has management given up at WKRN or KRON? If the answer is "No." Don't declare victory too soon.
Does management have people who are enthusastic about being a VJ and are making it work? If the answer is "Yes." Don't declare victory too soon.
I think all of us could learn a lesson from the US snowboarder today. Don't declare victory too early.
The posts from the VJs from WKRN and KRON give some insight as to why the VJ experiment failed for THEM. They are very honest and insightful. Thanks to both. But don't ignore the words of the former KRON VJ about this person's assessment that the model is WORKING at two of KRON's bureaus.
My point is that if it is working ANYWERE there is the potential that management tries to make it work EVERYWHERE. My guess is that management cares little if people quit or are fired as long as they can replace them with others who will make it work. Or better yet, not replace them at all and management can declare victory by saying "We gave everyone a chance to become a VJ and proof of that is Bob, Sally, and Bacon-man who are former photogs and now outstanding examples of the system working!" They won't mention that 25 people left or were fired. They don't care! But in the end the system works for them.
Don't you people see this coming? Most of you have already declared victory. VJs are dead! WKRN failed! KRON failed! We laugh at their arrogance and stupidity!
Guys, they haven't failed. I'm betting in management's eyes this whole thing is going swimmingly. While we're all celebrating, they have a handful of people who are making this work. That's all they care about! And that's all they need. They can build from that. If a photog makes it work, great! He gets a raise, and gets to stay. If not, so what? Out with old, in with the new VJ. And a cheaper one at that. Better yet, out with the old and we'll pocket the savings.
All of you are seriously underestimating the basic survival skills of MANAGEMENT. They don’t share our values and they don’t share our concerns. Hell, we’re all talking to the converted here.
I’ll ask both our former VJs. Has management given up at WKRN or KRON? If the answer is "No." Don't declare victory too soon.
Does management have people who are enthusastic about being a VJ and are making it work? If the answer is "Yes." Don't declare victory too soon.
Frank McBride
Well-known member
Don't you people see this coming?
I'm willing to listen until you go into the doomsday talk. I agree with you and Yogi Berra that it ain't over 'til it's over. I'm sure this experiment is being watched with interest by more than a few broadcasters also considering "a change".
We can all take a lesson from Alex, who saw the warning signs early and made sure he had options when the "change" came. But he didn't panic or submit, which is what your fatalistic language seems to recommend.
FMc
I'm willing to listen until you go into the doomsday talk. I agree with you and Yogi Berra that it ain't over 'til it's over. I'm sure this experiment is being watched with interest by more than a few broadcasters also considering "a change".
We can all take a lesson from Alex, who saw the warning signs early and made sure he had options when the "change" came. But he didn't panic or submit, which is what your fatalistic language seems to recommend.
FMc
verdantFOX
Well-known member
Not trying to be fatalistic
You're right Mr. McBride. I think my post may have sounded like management is actually "winning" when my point was they haven't yet given up -- not by a long shot.
I believe many of us have convinced ourselves that this is already a dead issue. My point is that it is not. I have been saying for sometime that it will take a year or more for us to even begin to get a sense for how the VJ thing will work or not work. All too often on this site and others we whip ourselves up in a fervent lather that only results in us running off others who disagree, declaring victory too soon, and frankly, ignoring the facts.
I believe management at both stations is a long way from throwing in the towel, whatever their "true" motives. This is clearly a money driven solution, that doesn't mean it will fail.
We have to be vigilant about what is happening at those stations and invite the proponents to speak freely. We already know what the downsides are. I think the posts from WC and Alex have been extremely enlightening, but my sense is that KRON may not be having the meltdown that WKRN seems to be having.
My advice is clear -- be vigilant, invite others who disagree to speak their mind, and don't trash them because we don't agree with them, and don't believe for a moment we've already won.
You're right Mr. McBride. I think my post may have sounded like management is actually "winning" when my point was they haven't yet given up -- not by a long shot.
I believe many of us have convinced ourselves that this is already a dead issue. My point is that it is not. I have been saying for sometime that it will take a year or more for us to even begin to get a sense for how the VJ thing will work or not work. All too often on this site and others we whip ourselves up in a fervent lather that only results in us running off others who disagree, declaring victory too soon, and frankly, ignoring the facts.
I believe management at both stations is a long way from throwing in the towel, whatever their "true" motives. This is clearly a money driven solution, that doesn't mean it will fail.
We have to be vigilant about what is happening at those stations and invite the proponents to speak freely. We already know what the downsides are. I think the posts from WC and Alex have been extremely enlightening, but my sense is that KRON may not be having the meltdown that WKRN seems to be having.
My advice is clear -- be vigilant, invite others who disagree to speak their mind, and don't trash them because we don't agree with them, and don't believe for a moment we've already won.
Baltimore Shooter
Well-known member
I wonder how WKRN will fair in the Feb Sweeps.
Warren
Warren
Chicago Dog
Well-known member
Sorry FOX, but...
If I remember correctly, Rosenblum and his supporters were declaring victory simply because the system had found its way into two local news stations. Sorry -- it's been over six months, and no one else has embraced this concept. Do you really think we're "celebrating too early?" I sincerely doubt it. If this system were as groundbreaking as it was made out to be, it would still be around at New York 1. Remember them? They went OMB/VJ over twelve years ago, and abandoned the system.
So, call me crazy, but I feel quite safe when I say the system's a failure. Shall we review the points?
1. The system was pitched by a "guru" who has no local news experience whatsoever. None.
2. Both WKRN and KRON had their staff trained when the OMB/VJ experiment began. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the staff decided to leave after they gave the OMB/VJ system a shot.
3. They were tired of having their asses handed to them by other stations and their own management, proving that only failing management teams would use such a ridiculous set-up.
4. Michael Stoll interviewed Rosenblum (and others) about the OMB/VJ system. Rosenblum denied most of what he was quoted as saying. When Stoll suddenly appeared to back up his article -- well -- I can't say I've ever seen someone backpedal as quickly as Rosenblum did.
5. Ever since word began trickling in about the OMB/VJ system's impending doom, Rosenblum has disappeared. His own blog is suddenly silent. He tucked tail and ran.
I suggest you re-read Alex Lucas' posts in this thread. Many of his points have nothing to do with management: the cameras were crap, they won't survive a year. Turning a story and knowing the bona-fide crew from the station across the street is going to kick your ass?
Lucas' posts are very well-written. He put himself on the line by giving us the tell-all of his experiences with the OMB/VJ system. I'm very appreciative that we have his opinion: someone who gave the OMB/VJ system an honest shot.
So, after all this, you think another station management team is going to come along and say, "Hey, what's that thing Young Broadcasting did? Drove out all their employees? Sent themselves belly-up? Got them ridiculed not only by others in the profession, but their own viewers?"
"Get me the checkbook. Give me the phone. There's a messiah I must call, and he doesn't come cheap."
... Right.
While I understand your meaning, this post is far, far, far too late.verdantFOX said:
If I remember correctly, Rosenblum and his supporters were declaring victory simply because the system had found its way into two local news stations. Sorry -- it's been over six months, and no one else has embraced this concept. Do you really think we're "celebrating too early?" I sincerely doubt it. If this system were as groundbreaking as it was made out to be, it would still be around at New York 1. Remember them? They went OMB/VJ over twelve years ago, and abandoned the system.
So, call me crazy, but I feel quite safe when I say the system's a failure. Shall we review the points?
1. The system was pitched by a "guru" who has no local news experience whatsoever. None.
2. Both WKRN and KRON had their staff trained when the OMB/VJ experiment began. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the staff decided to leave after they gave the OMB/VJ system a shot.
3. They were tired of having their asses handed to them by other stations and their own management, proving that only failing management teams would use such a ridiculous set-up.
4. Michael Stoll interviewed Rosenblum (and others) about the OMB/VJ system. Rosenblum denied most of what he was quoted as saying. When Stoll suddenly appeared to back up his article -- well -- I can't say I've ever seen someone backpedal as quickly as Rosenblum did.
5. Ever since word began trickling in about the OMB/VJ system's impending doom, Rosenblum has disappeared. His own blog is suddenly silent. He tucked tail and ran.
I suggest you re-read Alex Lucas' posts in this thread. Many of his points have nothing to do with management: the cameras were crap, they won't survive a year. Turning a story and knowing the bona-fide crew from the station across the street is going to kick your ass?
Lucas' posts are very well-written. He put himself on the line by giving us the tell-all of his experiences with the OMB/VJ system. I'm very appreciative that we have his opinion: someone who gave the OMB/VJ system an honest shot.
So, after all this, you think another station management team is going to come along and say, "Hey, what's that thing Young Broadcasting did? Drove out all their employees? Sent themselves belly-up? Got them ridiculed not only by others in the profession, but their own viewers?"
"Get me the checkbook. Give me the phone. There's a messiah I must call, and he doesn't come cheap."
... Right.
cameragod
Well-known member
VerdantFox has got a point. When I worked at ITN’s C5 they abandoned the small camera, producer no cameraman model within 6 months but 2 years latter management types would still be showing other suits around the studio quoting the original abandoned concept. Managements grasp on reality can be a bit tenuous at times and the number one rule is they are never wrong!!!