Lets hit the basics?

[andypoms]

Originally posted by <TXTVdude>:
Yo, Tip...

Last I checked the old TV handbook, IFB stood for Interrupt Feedback, not Interrupt Foldback...am I missing something here???

It goes both ways...

In some books it actually has both definitions.

 

[cameragod]

PZM anyone?

 

[(Sin)ical]

BOPSA- bunch of people standing around
BOPSAE- bunch of people sitting around eating

 

[David R. Busse]

Originally posted by <C St. SW>:

quote: Originally posted by David R. Busse:
... I'm told-- but I recall network producers feeding film stories from my old station many years ago and some of our old engineers would "call NR" to check on the quality of the feed into the telco hub.

David....do you remember how after finishing a feed to NYC we would notify the TOC that a they could make the switch to the next station? We would open a live mic and yell "THAT IS ALL FROM (insert market) AT THIS TIME!" Then they would make the switch.

At least thats what we did with the old NPS...(News Program Service) which was NBC's precursor to A-News, which was before Newschannel. There may have been a couple other names in there somewhere as well.

Yup we did the live mic thing plus a visual...I was at an NBC affiliate. I think we had a slide we would insert that said "Goodnight from Louisville." After that, you'd see the neat NPS logo with the earth-as-seen-from-the-moon shot on the network feed.

 

[David R. Busse]

Here's another one from network news:

"FFI Guys"

FFI guys were freelance cameramen listed in a bureau rolodex.

FFI was the inside way to alert everyone that these people were terrible shooters....only to be called in instances of Fire, Flood or Insurrection.

 

[Shaky & Blue]

Originally posted by fmrIntern:

quote: Originally posted by <TXTVdude>:
Yo, Tip...

Last I checked the old TV handbook, IFB stood for Interrupt Feedback, not Interrupt Foldback...am I missing something here???

It goes both ways...

In some books it actually has both definitions.

Both definitions are acceptable, but there's a very good reason foldback is used. There are two competing definitions of the word feedback in broadcasting. It's more often a negative term than a positive one, especially in audio, indicating the kind of electronic feedback of a signal onto itself that results in that irritating screeching sound. The other definition simply means a "feeding back" of the signal to the person creating it, as feedback monitors in a studio would do.

When talking about an audio device being stuck in the talent's ear, it might be confusing to refer to that signal as feedback, since one might think of the wrong definition and assume that it's screeching feedback that's going to perforate the talent's tympanic membrane. Thus, foldback is a friendlier term, in that the sound coming out of the talent's mouth is being "folded back" to him from the audio board without risking hearing loss.

 

[Betajunkie]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by fmrIntern:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by <TXTVdude>:
Yo, Tip...

Last I checked the old TV handbook, IFB stood for Interrupt Feedback, not Interrupt Foldback...am I missing something here???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It goes both ways...

In some books it actually has both definitions.


Foldback is also used interchangeably with monitor on some audio boards.

 

[Tippster]

Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:
...Thus, foldback is a friendlier term, in that the sound coming out of the talent's mouth is being "folded back" to him from the audio board without risking hearing loss.

Or not, since hopefully they "Interrupted" it to avoid the dreaded echo...

 

[andypoms]

Originally posted by cameragod:
PZM anyone?

I forget what PZM stands for, but it's a very thin mic with a very large pickup area. You can use them as tap mics, or table top mics for a panel. They are very easially hidden from the audience.

I used them in college for a skit we had to do for a TV Class. We only had one wireless mic and had too many people who needed to move around. So we set up 1 or 2 PZM's to cover the entire set. Got great sound all around even pick up "distant" sounds as distant.

sorta looks like:

code: <pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
_________ _
| / |
~~~~~|--------< |
|_________\_|

</pre>

EDIT FOLLOWS:

I looked it up PZM is "Pressure Zone Microphone".

It is for general purpose use. Ideal for applications such as conferences, group discussions, interviews, broadcast, home video production, lectures, and recordings. The mic can be placed on a large surface such as a table, floor, wall, or lectern. (from BHPhotovideo.com)

And this is a better "looks like":

 

[PHX Shooter]

OK, this seems like the right place to ask this. What do the numbers/letters on lens descriptions refer to? What is BERM? How do the lens descriptions relate to the "real world"? That is, if you choose a lens with this number, you get more magnification or wider angle coverage.

 

[tdelarm]

Member #44 has already given a great explanation. Here's Canons bridged terminology for Circle of Confusion...

Since all lenses contain a certain amount of spherical aberration and astigmatism, they cannot perfectly converge rays from a subject point to form a true image point (i.e., an infinitely small dot with zero area). In other words, images are formed from a composite of dots (not points) having a certain area, or size. Since the image becomes less sharp as the size of these dots increases, the dots are called “circles of confusion.” Thus, one way of indicating the quality of a lens is by the smallest dot it can form, or its “minimum circle of confusion.” The maximum allowable dot size in an image is called the “permissible circle of confusion.”

 

[Icarus112277]

Originally posted by Tippster:

quote: Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:
...Thus, foldback is a friendlier term, in that the sound coming out of the talent's mouth is being "folded back" to him from the audio board without risking hearing loss.

Or not, since hopefully they "Interrupted" it to avoid the dreaded echo...

Hopefully it would be a mix-minus going back tot he talent- hearing yourself talk in your ear in quite confusing.

 

[Tippster]

Originally posted by Icarus112277:

quote: Originally posted by Tippster:

quote: Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:
...Thus, foldback is a friendlier term, in that the sound coming out of the talent's mouth is being "folded back" to him from the audio board without risking hearing loss.

Or not, since hopefully they "Interrupted" it to avoid the dreaded echo...

Hopefully it would be a mix-minus going back tot he talent- hearing yourself talk in your ear in quite confusing.

Oh, FINE, Mr. Hoity-Toity! Use the Technical term, whydontcha!

 

[Shaky & Blue]

Originally posted by Icarus112277:

quote: Originally posted by Tippster:

quote: Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:
...Thus, foldback is a friendlier term, in that the sound coming out of the talent's mouth is being "folded back" to him from the audio board without risking hearing loss.

Or not, since hopefully they "Interrupted" it to avoid the dreaded echo...

Hopefully it would be a mix-minus going back tot he talent- hearing yourself talk in your ear in quite confusing.

I can't remember... Do they give the anchors in the studio mix minus? I was thinking the anchors get a full mix and hear themselves (which is, of course, the highlight of their day), since there isn't a noticeable delay in the monitor audio coming back to the studio.

Also, I thought it was Interruptible Foldback, with interruptible referring to the capacity for a producer or director to interrupt the audio and irritate the anchor or talent by talking in his ear while he's trying to read (as opposed to a closed monitoring system where you would only hear the on-air mix).

 

[Shaky & Blue]

Originally posted by tdelarm:
Member #44 has already given a great explanation. Here's Canons bridged terminology for Circle of Confusion...

quote: Since all lenses contain a certain amount of spherical aberration and astigmatism, they cannot perfectly converge rays from a subject point to form a true image point (i.e., an infinitely small dot with zero area). In other words, images are formed from a composite of dots (not points) having a certain area, or size. Since the image becomes less sharp as the size of these dots increases, the dots are called “circles of confusion.” Thus, one way of indicating the quality of a lens is by the smallest dot it can form, or its “minimum circle of confusion.” The maximum allowable dot size in an image is called the “permissible circle of confusion.”

Great picture. I've looked for a picture like that and was never able to find one on the web.

One clarification on what Canon says however, is that usually when one talks about the circle of confusion, one is referring to what Canon is calling the "permissible circle of confusion." That's really the only circle of confusion that matters, and depth of field charts or calculators will almost always refer to it that way. If your chart says 'Circle of Confusion = 1/1000",' they are specifically referring to the "permissible circle of confusion."

One other thing they don't mention is that the circle of confusion is not just dependent on the lens. Even if you had a lens so sharp that it could focus so that its circle of confusion projecting onto a perfect medium would be 1/10,000", the CCD or film emulsion in the real world would not be able to show the difference between a circle that small and a 1/1000" circle. Thus, the circle of confusion for calculating focus would be limited by the medium and would remain the same.

 

[Icarus112277]

Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:

quote: Originally posted by Icarus112277:

quote: Originally posted by Tippster:

quote: Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:
...Thus, foldback is a friendlier term, in that the sound coming out of the talent's mouth is being "folded back" to him from the audio board without risking hearing loss.

Or not, since hopefully they "Interrupted" it to avoid the dreaded echo...

Hopefully it would be a mix-minus going back tot he talent- hearing yourself talk in your ear in quite confusing.

I can't remember... Do they give the anchors in the studio mix minus? I was thinking the anchors get a full mix and hear themselves (which is, of course, the highlight of their day), since there isn't a noticeable delay in the monitor audio coming back to the studio.

Also, I thought it was Interruptible Foldback, with interruptible referring to the capacity for a producer or director to interrupt the audio and irritate the anchor or talent by talking in his ear while he's trying to read (as opposed to a closed monitoring system where you would only hear the on-air mix).

Its definitely iterruptible, otherwise there wouldn't be a point to it.

If its not a mix-minus, it should be. Try talking while hearing yourself on a slight delay- its a bit confusing. Mix-minus is the way to go.

 

[dinosaur]

Lost in Translation:
Since there was no Japanese translation for hand held video camera, when Ikegami first developed the ENG camera the verbatim translation was "Color Handy Looky" hence the HL model designation. "Color Handy Looky" was actually stamped on the bottom of the HL 33 & 35.

Not including 26 lb electronics backpack or the 3/4" vtr:

http://www.ikegami.com/image_j/handylooky_1.jpg

 

[Shaky & Blue]

Originally posted by Icarus112277:
If its not a mix-minus, it should be. Try talking while hearing yourself on a slight delay- its a bit confusing. Mix-minus is the way to go.

But that doesn't answer my question. FORGET live shots from microwave and satellite trucks for a moment, and pretend they don't exist.

In the studio where there is no delay, do the anchors still get mix minus in their IFB on the set? You don't get mix minus in radio; what comes into your cans is the full mix with your voice included. I don't see why the live audio mix for in house monitoring in a television studio would be any different.

I was under the impression mix minus was only fed out to live shots, where the time lag in the signal transmission would create the echo. In the studio, there's no need for it, right? Do any of you know what's being fed to your anchors?

Originally posted by Icarus112277:
Its definitely iterruptible, otherwise there wouldn't be a point to it.

Exactly, but my post was intended to clarify what interruptible means, because it seemed that some here were taking it to mean the process of removing the talent's voice from the mix for mix minus. I thought interruptible referred to being able to interrupt the entire signal, whether it's mix minus or a full mix. I believe you confirmed that.

 

[Icarus112277]

"Do any of you know what's being fed to your anchors?"

I'm pretty sure its mix minus, but I can doublecheck easy enuff.

"I thought interruptible referred to being able to interrupt the entire signal, whether it's mix minus or a full mix."

Yes. Although there are two ways to do this. The first is when the interrupt completely kills the other (PGM) signal. The second is when the interrupt comes on, the other signals level drops-we employ this version because our anchors get thrown when they lose program.

 

[D.St.]

Just 'cause I'm curious:

BVP
BVU
BVW
scraping the tape
registration
Umbilical Cord
Sun Gun


(I know the last three. I'm just seeing who answers first.)