Necktie Boy
Well-known member
It seems a good number of the freelancers are using large sensor cameras. My questions are what lenses are you using with your camera? Do you still use your ENG camera?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Large Sensor Cameras
- Thread starter Necktie Boy
- Start date
The Thing on The Sticks
PRO user
You might want to also add what type of work are those with large sensor cameras doing. I still work my PMW-400 and not any large sensor camera almost exclusively for news, sports and some corporate/clients. When I get a request for a specific camera which includes the large sensor ones I rent them but I have only had that happen with corporate and production clients.
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I'd have to look at my shoot calendar, but this year it seems like I'm at least 50/50 ENG camera to large sensor camera. Almost all of both are for network/TV clients. And I believe every corporate and non-network shoot has been large sensor.
I have some shoots where I'm using both types of cameras. Two weeks ago I had a two-day shoot for a client that consisted of a sit-down interview the first day and b-roll of the subject the second. Day one we shot with two C300's and day two I used my P2 Vari(24P) for the b-roll. And I really liked that. The producer wasn't hung up on "it has to be camera X". He trusted us and let us use the cameras that we felt were right for the different/specific situations instead of forcing a square peg into a round hole, as is done so often, now.
Onto the lens question. With my C300 and F55, I'm still using all Canon glass. I have a pretty good selection of Canon still lenses and a full set of Canon Cine primes. The Cine primes are beautiful pieces of glass and most are really fast(T1.5 or better) with the exception of the 14mm(T3.1) and 135(T2.2). The 14mm is the least used lens in my set and the 135mm my most used. The 85mm and 50mm are probably tied for second for 'second most used lens for interviews'. There is a production company that rents my C300 on a fairly regular basis and they rent it with my 16-35, 24-105 and 70-200. Those three lenses cover pretty much all of you're bases, BUT the 24-105 is slow at F/4 and it does ramp(even though it is a "constant aperture" lens) as you zoom. The biggest thing I hate about the still lenses is not having a physical, mechanical iris ring to control the aperture. It's such a pain in the @ss and I probably miss a lot of shots or make a much larger portion of a shot unusable that otherwise would be fine because it's improperly exposed because I couldn't adjust the iris in-time or I adjusted it the wrong way.
Some guys are using the adapters to use 2/3" ENG lenses on them. I'm debating whether I'm going to plunk down the $4k-$5k to get one to open up that avenue to me. I've demoed one and it gives you access to lenses with a huge zoom range, but there is a hit in image quality. One of my friends just told me today he's looking at the Canon Cine Servo zoom, now, because he hasn't been happy with 2/3" glass on his 55. I have a friend in LA who actually has both Canon Cine Servo zoom lenses: the 17-120 and the 50-1000. That's $100K in two lenses for those keeping score at home.
AND there are guys that are buying up and using s16 lenses on the F5/55 with center crop mode(2K and HD only).
Lots of options depending on your budget and needs.
I have some shoots where I'm using both types of cameras. Two weeks ago I had a two-day shoot for a client that consisted of a sit-down interview the first day and b-roll of the subject the second. Day one we shot with two C300's and day two I used my P2 Vari(24P) for the b-roll. And I really liked that. The producer wasn't hung up on "it has to be camera X". He trusted us and let us use the cameras that we felt were right for the different/specific situations instead of forcing a square peg into a round hole, as is done so often, now.
Onto the lens question. With my C300 and F55, I'm still using all Canon glass. I have a pretty good selection of Canon still lenses and a full set of Canon Cine primes. The Cine primes are beautiful pieces of glass and most are really fast(T1.5 or better) with the exception of the 14mm(T3.1) and 135(T2.2). The 14mm is the least used lens in my set and the 135mm my most used. The 85mm and 50mm are probably tied for second for 'second most used lens for interviews'. There is a production company that rents my C300 on a fairly regular basis and they rent it with my 16-35, 24-105 and 70-200. Those three lenses cover pretty much all of you're bases, BUT the 24-105 is slow at F/4 and it does ramp(even though it is a "constant aperture" lens) as you zoom. The biggest thing I hate about the still lenses is not having a physical, mechanical iris ring to control the aperture. It's such a pain in the @ss and I probably miss a lot of shots or make a much larger portion of a shot unusable that otherwise would be fine because it's improperly exposed because I couldn't adjust the iris in-time or I adjusted it the wrong way.
Some guys are using the adapters to use 2/3" ENG lenses on them. I'm debating whether I'm going to plunk down the $4k-$5k to get one to open up that avenue to me. I've demoed one and it gives you access to lenses with a huge zoom range, but there is a hit in image quality. One of my friends just told me today he's looking at the Canon Cine Servo zoom, now, because he hasn't been happy with 2/3" glass on his 55. I have a friend in LA who actually has both Canon Cine Servo zoom lenses: the 17-120 and the 50-1000. That's $100K in two lenses for those keeping score at home.
AND there are guys that are buying up and using s16 lenses on the F5/55 with center crop mode(2K and HD only).
Lots of options depending on your budget and needs.
Tv Shooter
Well-known member
Lenses from G&L Optics: 11-20; 18-35; 70-200.
Tokina 50-135
Sony 35; 50;85
Tokina 50-135
Sony 35; 50;85
Necktie Boy
Well-known member
Geoff,
Good call, I should have added when do you use a large sensor camera and not.
Run&Gun,
Great reply. Yes, I have seen the beautiful Canon Cine Servo lenses...And the wonderful prices..Yipes, but you have to think that a good HD lens cost about the same...Well pretty close. Have you played with the center crop?
TV Shooter,
How do you like the re-housed G&L lenses? Since the glass is Tokina? The 70-200 is Canon glass? Are the Sony lenses the first version or second? Those lenses are big! I read that the second versions are much better. Right now, you can get the full set for around $8k.
To all, Do you miss the servo zoom and parfocal?
Thanks
Good call, I should have added when do you use a large sensor camera and not.
Run&Gun,
Great reply. Yes, I have seen the beautiful Canon Cine Servo lenses...And the wonderful prices..Yipes, but you have to think that a good HD lens cost about the same...Well pretty close. Have you played with the center crop?
TV Shooter,
How do you like the re-housed G&L lenses? Since the glass is Tokina? The 70-200 is Canon glass? Are the Sony lenses the first version or second? Those lenses are big! I read that the second versions are much better. Right now, you can get the full set for around $8k.
To all, Do you miss the servo zoom and parfocal?
Thanks
Originally I kept my PMW500,when I bought a F5.. but then everything,including doc,s went s35.. some shows had been shot on PMW500 I got them to try the F5.. and they all went over the moon after.. probably pissed off the PMW500 guy who had shot the previous show.. so I sold the PMW500..
Lenses are the problem for sure... for doc work anyway.. first I shot C Crop with my Fujinon 4.5 ENG zoom.. with a 1.6 I think is was adaptor.. and rented the Cabrio 19-90,and or the wide angle zoom for the up market shoots where turning up with an ENG zoom was going to look really bad.. or just sacked straight out !
The CN7 was good timing for me.. so i waited till it was out and got one of the early ones just in time for 4 week shoot.. its a heavy beast to lug around on the shoulder all day.. but you can shoot exactly the same as ENG /zoom style.. the pictures are great.. and if not shoot 4K.. I go into C Crop to grab the odd 240mm shot too.. so heavy.. but only need one lens on the camera all day..
Tv Shooter
Well-known member
The G&L lenses are great. They are par focal, and very affordable. The Sony lenses are also great, and while a tad heavy, they are incredibly sharp and have a great bokeh.
Don't really miss servo zoom.
Not all the G&L are Tokina glass....some are Sigma and Canon. I also have the Tokina 50-135 cine lens.
Don't really miss servo zoom.
Not all the G&L are Tokina glass....some are Sigma and Canon. I also have the Tokina 50-135 cine lens.
Necktie Boy
Well-known member
Thanks TVShooter. I did go to their site and checked out what they offered. From other reading, some say the extra cost isn't worth it since you received the same performance with the still lens version. I know that rehousing improves the rings and mount, but does it improve the glass?
BluesCam,
What large sensor camera are you thinking of going to? Lenses?
Thanks
BluesCam,
What large sensor camera are you thinking of going to? Lenses?
Thanks
BluesCam
Well-known member
Necktie, I have been looking and looking, but doing no buying. My friend has an F5 and loves it. He has all kinds of lenses and is using it for all his shoots including corporate and docudrama stuff. His EX1 collects dust. There are just so many cams and they keep on coming. I think large sensor is definitely the way to go... but which way?? :>) The F3 has dropped way down in price, but only records 4:2:0. You need an external recorder for anything better. Good luck on your decision.
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2000lux
Well-known member
The F3 is obsolete. Don't waste your money. The C300 is still popular, but its on its way out.
I think the safest camera to get right now is the Sony FS-7. Its basically the EX3 of the large sensor 4K cameras. The most usable and the most ubiquitous right now. Its a lot cheaper than the F5, and yet easier to use as a one man band. It also has the same sensor as the F5, though I hear that somehow the electronics are different.
I'm curious to see if the C300 Mark ii takes off, but on paper at least, it does half as much for twice as much money. It will have to have an absolutely AMAZING picture compared to the FS-7 to take off.
I think the safest camera to get right now is the Sony FS-7. Its basically the EX3 of the large sensor 4K cameras. The most usable and the most ubiquitous right now. Its a lot cheaper than the F5, and yet easier to use as a one man band. It also has the same sensor as the F5, though I hear that somehow the electronics are different.
I'm curious to see if the C300 Mark ii takes off, but on paper at least, it does half as much for twice as much money. It will have to have an absolutely AMAZING picture compared to the FS-7 to take off.
Necktie Boy
Well-known member
Yes, I do agree that the F3 has pasted it time. Not even the low price has tempted me.
The reason on which lenses everyone is using is I did pick up a PXW-FS7. I do call it a poorman's F5. I know that the F5 is better in some ways, but it fit my budget with lenses and extras. The power zoom was another feature that I liked.
I have been experimenting with older Nikon glass. I like the look and the cost of the lenses. The look is seems to the same since I have picked a few lenses from the years they came out. Most are primes with one short zoom since it was dirt cheap.
Just got to wondering what others were using. Also, the Sony power cine lens is made for a full frame, you loose a little on the bottom end. I am looking for a lens that covers the wider side.
I have looked into the rehoused lenses. Been reading what others are using. Asking here since most work is for broadcast work, airing on cable or network company.
I have found a few older lenses that do cover the wider end, but have not picked up one at my price.
I won't mind a few Canon cine lenses and zooms, but not in my reach right now. I do have the Canon adapter, but not the SpeedBooster version. I did pickup a longer Canon for testing. I do like the images it produces.
So, is anyone using older still lenses?
Thanks again!
The reason on which lenses everyone is using is I did pick up a PXW-FS7. I do call it a poorman's F5. I know that the F5 is better in some ways, but it fit my budget with lenses and extras. The power zoom was another feature that I liked.
I have been experimenting with older Nikon glass. I like the look and the cost of the lenses. The look is seems to the same since I have picked a few lenses from the years they came out. Most are primes with one short zoom since it was dirt cheap.
Just got to wondering what others were using. Also, the Sony power cine lens is made for a full frame, you loose a little on the bottom end. I am looking for a lens that covers the wider side.
I have looked into the rehoused lenses. Been reading what others are using. Asking here since most work is for broadcast work, airing on cable or network company.
I have found a few older lenses that do cover the wider end, but have not picked up one at my price.
I won't mind a few Canon cine lenses and zooms, but not in my reach right now. I do have the Canon adapter, but not the SpeedBooster version. I did pickup a longer Canon for testing. I do like the images it produces.
So, is anyone using older still lenses?
Thanks again!
Tv Shooter
Well-known member
If it's being made available now, chances are it's replacement is already on the drawing board, or updates to it's functions. You can wait and wait, but that just means you're that much further behind.
Example: had not had a single F5 call.....until I bought one. Doug Jensen's advice holds true-why would anyone call you for a large sensor if you don't have one? Two days after I put it out there I had an F5, I had 2 jobs booked the next week.
Cameras are more and more complex, and renting one the morning of the shoot is the fast way to a disaster on set (I know cause I've been hired to save a couple of those shoots, in the middle of them).
Really doesn't matter if you have an F5/55, FS7, C300 or Amira.....but while you're looking and looking, everyone with a large sensor is making money and solidifying their share of the marketplace.
A couple of freelancers I know took to long to make the HD jump and pretty much put themselves out of business. I see a lot of guys doing that now with large sensor cams and lenses. Again-while they're waiting to see how the camera race shakes out, they're losing work to those that made the investment.
It matters absolutely almost zero which camera....I've had exactly 1 person insist on a C300 that I was unable to have use the F5. Most just want the look and as long as you can solve their file format delivery issues, it's never a problem.
July was 18 days with the F5 (and 7 with my trusty HDX900/Nanoflash). Large sensor cams are not just here, a lot of people are already on the 2nd and 3rd generations of them.
"Buy it....they will come".....Doug Jensen March 2014
Example: had not had a single F5 call.....until I bought one. Doug Jensen's advice holds true-why would anyone call you for a large sensor if you don't have one? Two days after I put it out there I had an F5, I had 2 jobs booked the next week.
Cameras are more and more complex, and renting one the morning of the shoot is the fast way to a disaster on set (I know cause I've been hired to save a couple of those shoots, in the middle of them).
Really doesn't matter if you have an F5/55, FS7, C300 or Amira.....but while you're looking and looking, everyone with a large sensor is making money and solidifying their share of the marketplace.
A couple of freelancers I know took to long to make the HD jump and pretty much put themselves out of business. I see a lot of guys doing that now with large sensor cams and lenses. Again-while they're waiting to see how the camera race shakes out, they're losing work to those that made the investment.
It matters absolutely almost zero which camera....I've had exactly 1 person insist on a C300 that I was unable to have use the F5. Most just want the look and as long as you can solve their file format delivery issues, it's never a problem.
July was 18 days with the F5 (and 7 with my trusty HDX900/Nanoflash). Large sensor cams are not just here, a lot of people are already on the 2nd and 3rd generations of them.
"Buy it....they will come".....Doug Jensen March 2014
Totally agree with TV shooter.. the 35mm sensor swing could be seen coming a mile off.. bought the F5 .. pretty cheap compared to ENG cam,s.. lens was the problem.. had to bite the bullet on the CN7.. it hurt.. but then I could shoot how i was used to..(they want the SDF look.. but schedule is still the same !).. had it just over a year, camera paid off long ago.. lens must be close now.. .. Quote from The good the bad and the ugly.. " don't talk.. shoot.."
One thing that some people overlook is that it is sometimes cheaper in the long run to be an early adopter because you can sell your old stuff while it is still in demand and can command a good price. When I look at the prices now for used F800's and F3's I'm even happier that I made the switch to my F55 when I did. I condensed down from two cameras to one camera and it actually cost me nothing. I think had leftover money in my pocket after the dust settled.
I have friends who waited too long, and now can't get enough money out of their old stuff to make a smooth transition. But even when they do, my F55 already has 2-year ROI on it that they probably won't get because a newer, better camera will come along and cut the life short of their camera. And then the cycle will start again.
"Buy early, sell early, and milk the hell out of the damn camera in between!"
-- Doug Jensen, 2015
I have friends who waited too long, and now can't get enough money out of their old stuff to make a smooth transition. But even when they do, my F55 already has 2-year ROI on it that they probably won't get because a newer, better camera will come along and cut the life short of their camera. And then the cycle will start again.
"Buy early, sell early, and milk the hell out of the damn camera in between!"
-- Doug Jensen, 2015
Tv Shooter
Well-known member
Heck, I didn't even try and sell any old stuff....the F5 paid for itself, the support gear and lenses inside of a year. If you can't make money with the F5/55, here's a hint....it ain't the camera.
No reason to sell your "old" stuff when it's still making money, too. My tape Vari, P2 Vari's, C300 and F55 are all working.
Last week I used my F55 and C300 on a shoot with Richard, my P2 Vari twice after that. P2 this Monday, C300 yesterday and someone rented it today and I'm shooting with the 55 on Friday. And when college football gets cranking, the tape Vari will probably get used at least once a week for interviews because the client wants to be able to ship the tapes around for edit and into the field.
And the best part… all five cameras are paid for.
Last week I used my F55 and C300 on a shoot with Richard, my P2 Vari twice after that. P2 this Monday, C300 yesterday and someone rented it today and I'm shooting with the 55 on Friday. And when college football gets cranking, the tape Vari will probably get used at least once a week for interviews because the client wants to be able to ship the tapes around for edit and into the field.
And the best part… all five cameras are paid for.
Your lucky you have such a diverse client base.. thats an advantage of the US I think.. and its huge sports market..
For me the UK/European/US doc/corp market tape went out years ago.. and now 2/3 chip sensor demand is almost non existent.. all s35.. initially that old chestnut. it must be C300.. but now its just s35mm .. haven't shot anything for the last year that wasn't s35..
Like Doug, Im glad I sold my PMW500 for a good price.. Im sure they are a lot cheaper now..
For me the UK/European/US doc/corp market tape went out years ago.. and now 2/3 chip sensor demand is almost non existent.. all s35.. initially that old chestnut. it must be C300.. but now its just s35mm .. haven't shot anything for the last year that wasn't s35..
Like Doug, Im glad I sold my PMW500 for a good price.. Im sure they are a lot cheaper now..
Robin, I use all four models for my primary client and have another client that uses the C300 and P2 Vari, depending on the shoot. It seems like most other clients I'm just using one or the other. But s35 seems to be a much larger percentage of my work this year than in the last few. Looking back at shooting days in July with my gear it was roughly 40/60 with ENG still having the edge. But if you tossed in rentals of my large sensor cams, they become the majority.
I actually don't want 2/3" ENG cameras to go away. I love my VariCam's too much. Great picture and in my opinion, damn near perfect, as far as camera design.
I actually don't want 2/3" ENG cameras to go away. I love my VariCam's too much. Great picture and in my opinion, damn near perfect, as far as camera design.