Duplicate Time Code Problems

[Douglas]

Now that we are no longer limited to 30 minute tapes, (with DVCAM, DVCPRO, etc) I'm curious to know how you handle duplicate time code. For example, if tape #1 is 64 minutes long and starts at 1:00:00; then the ending code is going to be something like 2:04:00 -- unless you change tapes early. Now, if you start tape #2 at 2:00:00 then you're going to have duplicate time code for the first few minutes. That can be a big a problem in post. How do you guys handle that?

Doug

 

[dinosaur]

The same thing would happen if you shot more than 23 tapes on a project. One solution would be not to number each tape by utilizing the time code "hours" clock to id the tape. Start by just beginning your project at 00:00:00 and shooting continous code until the end of the production. If you insist on "electronically" numbering each tape then you could use the seldom used user-bits. Anyway, I've found that when you shoot a large number of tapes over several days the time code numbering system quite frequently gets screwed up by things like not resetting the code number when hurrying to change tapes or misnumbering by inadvertantly skipping or duplicating a number.

Most times when tapes are logged that would reference the starting number of time code on a particluar tape on the log.

With 64min tapes, other than being certain to change them before you reach 60mins, there's not much that can be done to avoid code duplication if you are numbering tapes using the TC clock.

 

[Douglas]

Dinosaur, thank you for the suggestions, but I was hoping for a better solution. I guess there isn't any except to pop out the tape before it hits 1 hour.

First of all, we never screw up our time code numbering. That would be unacceptable. Perfect, sequential TC has always been important and we don't get confused or mess it up in the heat of battle.

Second, I think I've shot more than 24 tapes in a single day about twice in 20 years, so this is a new problem and not something that most crews have had to deal with in the past. We've always started each day on a large project at hour 1.

Third, running continous time code is not feasbile either. Editors and clients are too used to using the hour number as the reel number, so that won't work. You'd have to have TC start and end notes on every label. Forget that.

I was just wondering if there was a generally accepted way to do it. If there isn't one, there isn't one. I think I'm going to look at each 64 minute tape as 60 minutes long with a 4 minute "emergency" reserve at the end -- minutes NOT to be used routinely. The 64 minute DVCAM tapes are about the same price as the 32 minute tapes, so it doesn't seem wasteful.

Thanks

 

[dinosaur]

First of all, we never screw up our time code numbering. That would be unacceptable. Perfect, sequential TC has always been important and we don't get confused or mess it up in the heat of battle.

I commend you on your efforts to achieve TC perfection, but I can assure you that in my 30 years of network television production "never" is a word that I refrain from using if possible.

I'm not telling you how to do it , I'm just stating how I, and most of my colleagues have done it. I have worked on many "real time" events and sports/news coverage that if I had to stop to reset time code for a new tape the likelyhood of missing some critical action would be great. Under controlled situations, resetting TC to number a tape is ideal and it becomes SOP. I've had a number of producers visably annoyed with me for the couple of short seconds that I have spent fiddling to reset time code in lieu of continuing to roll on action. So, we do it whenever physically possible, and if we can't, the production does not come to a screeching halt. We all make a note of it and move on. I cannot say "never" under those circumstances. "infrequently" is a term I prefer.

I have shot numerous documentaries where we use continous code (not time of day), easily shooting more than 23 tapes over the course of several days. The reason we don't start with tape number 1 every new day is the same reason that you are striving to avoid duplicate tape numbers. TC does not record dates and an on-line edit system will not differentiate between an 01:00:00 shot on Monday and an 01:00:00 shot on Wednesday. So that is another reason we usually shoot either continious code (the producer uses our scriptboy) or sequentially numbered tapes up to tape #23.

 

[dhart]

Gee, in the non-linear world tc is almost totally irrelevent, same with tc "reel" numbers. Once the tape has been digitized editors tend to keep track of things via bins, etc and they could care less what "reel" it came from. As long as the individual tape has a physical reel # I really don't see the problem. If they have to re-digitize something they just refer back to the physical reel number and off they go. Of course in the steam powered days of linear tape editing proper reel numbering and tc generation was a huge deal. But if you work with some anal producers (and who hasn't) sounds like your plan will work okay. Good luck

 

[Austin Reeves]

Originally posted by dinosaur:

I have shot numerous documentaries where we use continous code (not time of day), easily shooting more than 23 tapes over the course of several days. The reason we don't start with tape number 1 every new day is the same reason that you are striving to avoid duplicate tape numbers. TC does not record dates and an on-line edit system will not differentiate between an 01:00:00 shot on Monday and an 01:00:00 shot on Wednesday. So that is another reason we usually shoot either continious code (the producer uses our scriptboy) or sequentially numbered tapes up to tape #23.

Have to agree with you there sir. Depending on the shoot, I may hardcode the reelnumbers into the TC, but since I shoot a lot of live events, I usually don't get the chance to. Much more important to get the event, that the reel number correct.

Many times I've shot stuff just starting the project at 00:00:00:00 and running until we shut down for the day. We log the TC of the last tape as a precaution and upon returning, power up, roll some bars as pad and continue (of course verifying TC stamping is correct). Tapes should be visibly marked anyways with REEL #'s.

Once in the edit bay, whether you have a situation like assistant's loading tapes onto the editors to be cut by 'master' editors or you have a 1 man wonder-editor, based on visible exterial reel numbering and TC, u should really have no problem whatsoever. I have yet to see an edit system that doesn't track REEL# and Timecode seperately. If you have to do a batch reload (say after a low res edit), the machine should prompt for each reel # (which you'd look for visible identification anyways, not a TC reading).

Everyone has their own way of doing things. That is just mine, but I have yet to see anyone freak over it.

Liveshot

 

[Brian Z]

Two things:

I would agree with a previous poster that you shoud treat the 64 minute tapes as a 60 with a reserve.

If you need to set the reel number, use the U-Bit, I like to set it to the date and the tape number, if i have time to. I can't even think of another use for it, so that is what I do.