Pricing Structures

M

Mike McLenna

Member
I'm a news photographer currently but am looking into the possibility of freelancing on the side. I can shoot promos, commercials, weddings etc... I don't really know how to price my services. Hourly? By the job? Is there an industry standard or a professional code that I should be aware of? Any input would be very helpful.
 
The wedding industry is use to flat rates for various packages offered. IE: 2 cameras and one operator, 2 cameras, with 2 operators, ect. You can get a feel for prices on packages by surfing the wedding videographer sites in yur market.
Most freelancers adhere to a day rate and there is no standard for this price. It has to do with your market, your experience/capabilities, and your gear/overhead. The bottom line is you'll get what ya can. If that's a grand a day with gear, great. If 20 bucks an hour is a bump from your daily grind, that's a win/win as well.
Don't go by union rates in your market. You'll find they run about a third of what most freelancers charge.
 
So iHD, if "its every man for himself in the freelance world" as you say then I guess it's okay to go after a fellow Cameraman's client.

Warren
 
Hey iHD

Please dont come anywhere near Europe.. most of us have friends that are also camera people.. there is a camaraderie between shooters.. I have lent a complete stranger a battery... a tape.. and would expect the same.. if you are in it for the money.. please leave this industry and work for Goldman .. where you will fit in really well..
 
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So, Robin
When you first went freelance, how'd you get your clients? I assume they did no video work before meeting you.
 
The problem with protecting the general rate structure of a market is that you are never really quite sure what it is. How do I know how much "Freelancer A" is charging relative to me or "Freelancer B"? I don't. Do I call them on the phone and ask them? Will they even tell me what they charge and will they be specific -- charging for extras, charge for tape stock, mileage, OT? Most people, except for trusting friends, won't disclose that information to me. Or at least not readily. And why not? Because they are competitors and they know it is to my advantage to know what they do and don't do.

So I charge what I think is appropriate for ME and something that I believe is within the basic economic/geographical standards of where I work. I don't really worry what other people are charging, although I keep my antennae up and listen when it is discussed.

I don't think iHDs analysis of renting versus owning is totally true. People who need to rent will have to charge more. They will also have to make less. But someone who rents is probably also used to making less. They don't see as much profit in the rental/freelance end of the business so they probably look to gross say, $600/day. However an equipment owning freelancer probably has an amount in mind that they'd like to clear as well. On a purely speculative level, that number is probably at a minimum $1000/day and approaching $1300/day when HD is involved, perhaps more. But the freelancer also has higher expenses to pay and those hidden costs reduce the gross intake down to a smaller net.

I think a freelancer has to be aware of the basic rate structure in any market. That only makes sense. You don't want to have the highest rates. Nor do you want to be the cheapest totem on the pole. But you also need to be aware of where you stand in the pecking order and what your scheme is to move up to bigger and better work and more lucrative pay. ALL of us did that. I started working in the mid-80s for $200/day without gear for local news magazine shows like Evening Magazine, otherwise known as PM Magazine around most of the country. When I bought my own equipment, the industry was growing and freelancers were less plentiful. The whole supply/demand dynamic was much different than it is now. We worked our way up very very quickly because we has a wave pushing us along. The new people entering the market don't seem to have that kind of ballast. It's a much harder slog. However, what you do have that we didn't is extremely cheap editing capability. You can shoot and edit for a lot less than we could and that alone makes you able to be more of a business than we early freelancers who came of age in the 1990s.
 
ditto.
In the end, as long as I average a grand a day, I'm good. Sometimes that is by the hour, sometimes it's a flat rate for a turn key production, and often it's twice that one day and nothing the next.
 
So iHD, you're advocating stealing someone's clients. I guess I've become an "old timer". I was told not to steal another Cameraman's clients. But you're saying it's now okay.

As for "flat rate pricing", make sure you put rates with that rate such as the cost includes x days shooting, x hours editing, x number of copies, etc. Otherwise you'll be doing re-shoot after re-shoot, re-edit, after ed-edit, etc.

Warren
 
The man speaks with wisdom from obvious experience.
Listen to him.

I just bid a flat $3k on a project. Will I make a boatload on this particular project? Less than that grand a day I mentioned as I'll put 4 days into it after travel. Will it secure 5, maybe 6 figures of work throughout the rest of the year? Indeed it will.
Competition is good. If you think others are not trying to get your clients from you right now, your head is in the sand. That's their job. It's your job to ensure your clients simply cannot get a better product or a better deal elsewhere at any given time.
 
I know i am still relatively new. And i dont do much freelance, but logic has to go with iHD's reasoning.

It is a business. The one with the best deal and and the best service's gets the job. it is the same when you go to a recommended auto mechanic.

I was told when i graduated in 2005 to charge reasonably, but to never under sell yourself. That in the business we are in, some people may think that OH THEY ARE CHARGING LESS, CAUSE THEIR WORK IS NOT AS GOOD. Even if that is not the case. So just be wary. be competitive.

And i fully understand the giving a long time client a break here and there. I dont call it stealing if they client comes to you after seeing one of your ads. If you call that stealing, then Mcdonald's steals from Wendy's and Wendy's steals from Burger King, and on and on and on.
 
It's important to not look at competition as stealing. If you make the mistake of thinking your clientele will always be loyal to you, well, you have indeed made a mistake. They owe us nothing. Hence the staying on top of being the best value.
 
iHD said:
There is a BIG difference between helping a fellow freelancer out in the field by lending them tapes, batteries, etc. and giving them clients. Tell me Robin, when was the last time you told one of your clients they should use another freelancer instead of you because you make enough money and some other guy needs to make more??? That's what we're talking about.

Nobody, including myself, likes or wants to lose clients. So how do you keep them? You do it by keeping your rates competitive and always offering something the next guy can't or won't. You don't plea with your competition to keep their rates up and not to go after your clients. You have to work for the money, not expect it to be handed to you. Life, and business, doesn't work that way.
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You plainly state that at an event.. you would purposely pursue another camera persons clients.. what after you smiled and said.. hey how you doing.. that in my book is just plain wrong.. you have it all wrong.. if you have friends you can pass them work when your busy and visa versa.. without cutting theirs or your rate.. or stealing their clients..
I would advise keeping your real id secret..
 
grinner said:
So, Robin
When you first went freelance, how'd you get your clients? I assume they did no video work before meeting you.
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I got work through the cameramen I had assisted mostly.. you know its really not bad having friends.. you might want to give it a try :):
 
I think there is a gross mis-representation of 'stealing' clients.

I go after anybody's clients who are not working friends of mine. That's business. I know people are calling on my clients too. If they have a better offer the client would be stupid not to consider them.

If you don't 'steal' a client from someone else, how do you get clients that are now actively producing? Granted, you can get handed some clients from friends. I started by getting a few clients handed to me by shooters I worked for, but after a while, you're on your own.
 
I wouldn't get concerned about iHDV.... Unless you shoot weddings or YouTube videos. After looking at his recent post he runs around DC with his three lowels and runs his vastly superior business so well he was fishing for part time local news work in Texas.
 
HD, have you noticed the folks who talk the most smack here are the ones who have no work to show and hide behind anonymity?
I'd say it's very likely the poster spitting out nagativities wishes he's done a fraction of what you have. I've seen the same with certain hotdog vendors here.
 
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