c300 ef or pl mount?

Starman

Well-known member
Looking at a used C300, but I dunno if I want an EF or a PL mount. Looks like a lot more lens options and more affordable in EF mount. Mostly shooting efp and eng stuff and some documentary / corporate. Any suggestions as to which way to go? Wanted to possibly use my HDX900's lens with it as well, I heard you can use an adaptor?
 
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Necktie Boy

Well-known member
It depends..

PL glass is plentiful, and some does cost way more that the Canon EF mounts lenses. You can go with cheaper EF lenses till you have the money to go with the better Canon lenses. Or rent PL lenses till you can afford a PL set. I would say that PL lenses have better glass than most still lenses.

You could get adapters to go either way, I believe.

As for the 2/3 lens, I think there is a mount, but you have to have a doubler on the 2/3 lens since the CMOS is larger than a 2/3 chip. Not really worth the trouble, and you would have to have a cable to power the 2/3 zoom and a few stops of light loss. Not to mention the extra weight on the front.

If you are planning to use zoom lenses, then going EF would be the better way...Or should I say the cheaper way. Also remember that still lenses are not parfocal. Is that the correct term? They will not hold focus through the focus range without you checking focus.
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
The majority of the C300's out there that are owned by individuals are EF mount. I've only had one call looking for a PL mount version. I told them to call a rental house. There isn't a difference between it and the PL version besides the mount(and the differences associated with that-no communication with lenses, etc). If you go PL, you are only going to be able to use PL, you can not put EF on it. PL has a deeper flange depth than EF. In theory, you can put PL on EF(because EF is shallower), but there are only two adapters that I've seen and the reviews and results are mixed. Not all PL lenses are the same and therefore not all will work with these adapters. One of the biggest problems I've read about is that some of the lenses can't achieve infinity focus when used with these adapters. You could work around that if you're focusing yourself visually through the VF or monitor, but you can't pull focus by the witness marks. It's pretty much a case-by-case basis, is what I've been told by my rep at Abel(I don't think they sell any, but they did some checking for me).

As far as 2/3" lenses, there are a few adapters out there. I believe it's MTF that makes one that has a small glass element in it and the B4 lens MUST have an extender(which must be engaged) to work to blow the image up to cover the s35 sensor. IBE makes one that is sold and branded by Abel Cine. It contains all the optical elements to blow the image circle up to cover the s35 sensor, BUT it will cost you almost 2.5 stops(the MTF will, as well). And the IBE has user swappable camera side mounts in EF, PL and I believe Nikon. They're nice tools in certain situations, but there is degradation in the image quality. And you will have to use rails and a support for the ENG lens.

As far as still zoom lenses not being parfocal, I don't think it's a hard and fast rule, but most probably aren't. "Live zooming" has never been something still photographers have had to worry about, and therefore probably never part of most lens designs(probably makes them less expensive to design and make and lighter weight).

There is no doubt that the C300 makes a beautiful picture and if you can get one at a good price and recoup the cost quickly, it wouldn't be a bad investment, but if I was buying new right now and looking down the road, I'd be leaning towards the F5/55. It can do more and you're not locked into one lens mount. HD, 2K, 4K, HFR, better ergonomics, native/better VF's, almost universal lens acceptance, better/more recording codecs, F/55 has global shutter and on-board RAW recording.

In my opinion, even as a C300 owner, the F55 is the best/most versatile damn camera for the money on the market. I don't have any regrets buying my 300 last year, but if I had to do it over again in 2014, I can't say that I would.
 

Robin

Well-known member
Even better you can buy the F5.. if you don't need internal 4K.. and who does.. not many.. but can "up grade" to 55 specs later.. at same cost as 55.. but I think not many people need to record internal 4K now.. the global shutter is not a big deal..you can wave the F5 about and its fine.. nothing like DSLR.. colour gamut not a big deal either.. I would be getting an F5 before a C300.. even for HD you get a great image down sampled from a 4K sensor.. which neither Alexa or Amira have.. plus you get a great looking camera .. instead of a kettle .. :)
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
I would disagree with Global Shutter not being a big deal. It's one of my biggest complaints with the new VariCam. The big boys have done a good job with controlling skew on rolling shutters, but there is still flash banding. Whenever I see it I think "TMZ paparazzi gangbang footage", because most of it is shot on little consumer/prosumer cameras with rolling shutter CMOS chips.
 
Does the F5 have the same flash band reduction option that the 400 has? I haven't had a chance to use mine yet as I don't do many of those types of events but I'm just curious. From what I hear it works really well about 98% of the time but then I don't know the source to know if he knows what he is talking about. And from what I understand panasonic has basically the same thing on their newer high end cameras..
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
I would hope that it is something they have taken into consideration and have tried to eliminate or at least mitigate, BUT I would have to see proof of it's effectiveness in real world situations. I work mostly in the sports world and am constantly shooting around still photographers in different situations. High-end cinema type cameras aren't just used in controlled (lighting) production/movie set type situations.
 

Starman

Well-known member
So the new Varicam will NOT have global shutter? Eww, that's gross. Planning on purchasing an F55, but later on. In the meantime, C300 is the workhorse, so I am going to buy one in the next month or two. Most likely a used body so that I can pay it of quickly. Super popular camera, not thrilled with it either, but it IS what makes money. I had a 3700 Varicam for a while, loved the CCD's, but it was too limited in terms of frame rate, 1080 only, etc, so I sold it and bought a used HDX900 WITH a Nano Flash, it was a wise move, adding a C300 would be good for me. Renting for now.
 

Robin

Well-known member
I would disagree with Global Shutter not being a big deal. It's one of my biggest complaints with the new VariCam. The big boys have done a good job with controlling skew on rolling shutters, but there is still flash banding. Whenever I see it I think "TMZ paparazzi gangbang footage", because most of it is shot on little consumer/prosumer cameras with rolling shutter CMOS chips.
Yes sure if you are shooting around stills guys a lot I would buy the F55.. but for 99% of the time the lack of global shutter is not a big deal.. the Amira doesn't have it either.. or all (most ) of the Alexa range.. but sure if you are around stills guys all day,or shooting a lot of storms.. I would think its a big problem..
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
In a true controlled production environment, rolling shutter may not be a big deal. Even with the C300, I haven't run into skew out in the wild. But let's face it, a lot of us are asked to use these types of cameras in 'run & gun' and ENG situations. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but my VariCam's are used more than half of the time for ENG. Even taking the s35 head of the new Vari out of the equation, the 2/3" head is CMOS, now.
 

Starman

Well-known member
So does the new Varicam not have a global shutter? I know the F55 does. I get a lot more calls for HDX900 than I ever got for a 3700, a 2700 would make more sense, but I already have a P2 HPX370. I know it is CMOS but it's fine for most things. The 900 also does 60p so it could do some slo-mo. Still, I would like a new toy, but if the Varicam has no global shutter, I would def get an F55 instead.
 

Robin

Well-known member
In a true controlled production environment, rolling shutter may not be a big deal. Even with the C300, I haven't run into skew out in the wild. But let's face it, a lot of us are asked to use these types of cameras in 'run & gun' and ENG situations. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but my VariCam's are used more than half of the time for ENG. Even taking the s35 head of the new Vari out of the equation, the 2/3" head is CMOS, now.
I wonder if CCD sensors are on the way out.. and that they will all go to CMOS..
What about the new Sony 850 disc camera..? its 2/3 inch but is it also CMOS.. nearly all their other camera,s seem to gone that way.. PMW400 etc.. not sure if they are still making the 500.. CCD camera..
 

Starman

Well-known member
My HPX370 has flash band compensation, and it does make a difference. I shoot some press conferences with this camera, and that is a useful feature. It is not perfect, but if rolling shutter and flash banding get eliminated with new CMOS technology, I have no problem with future generations having those kinds of chips.
 
I wonder if CCD sensors are on the way out.. and that they will all go to CMOS..
What about the new Sony 850 disc camera..? its 2/3 inch but is it also CMOS.. nearly all their other camera,s seem to gone that way.. PMW400 etc.. not sure if they are still making the 500.. CCD camera..
I don't think there have been any recent cameras with ccd technology I'm pretty sure CMOS is the future and it is just a matter of companies making the most of the technology. I can say for certain that while I was highly unimpressed with the first gen CMOS cameras the current models are all excellent tools.
 

Starman

Well-known member
You gotta admit, one thing that I like about my HDX900 is I can had a producer the tapes, and they don't have to carry a hard drive or transfer footage or anything. The same goes with the discs. This is why in news and so forth, I think that it is better and easier. That is why I think the discs will still hang around for a while. BUT, P2 has been good for me shooting for FOX because the bureau just has a P2 deck for playout and I often just press play for all the clips during a Satellite feed if I am at an uplink truck, and it plays all the clips back, which is also very convenient. So there are some pros to tapeless too.
 

Necktie Boy

Well-known member
Catching up on my NAB reading....

The Canon cinema prime lenses only come in a EF mount. The cinema zooms come in PL and EF mounts.
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
I was told that, I believe Duclos, is working on a conversion for the Canon Cine Primes that will make them PL mount. But it's a one way, one time conversion, unlike the system that allows the zooms to go back and forth at will.

On a related note, IBE is now making a PL to EF adapter, among a lot of other new ones(some of interest to F5/55 owners). I don't think I will be buying anymore EF mount Cine lenses...
 
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