Panasonic Varicam

[Ken]

I just spent 2 days in the studio working with the Varicam. I was very impressed with this camera. We shot 24P. I still do not understand the tape format. I know it was DVC Pro but also HD? The producer was going to down convert it for editing. I didn't like the viewfinder very much. No matter how I adjusted the brightness, sharpness etc. to bars it never put me in a comfort zone and I really relied on the monitor. But I guess it is something you get used to after using it for a while. But I was a bit concerned, especially since we were working with a totally white set. The cyc and floor were painted white as the producer was looking for the type of look that was used in the Apple Computer campaign. Really white. So I had two 5K room lights for general ambience. Two 2K fresnels through 216 wrapping the walls, a 2K fresnel hanging from the grid with opal on it for a backlight and a 2K open face through 216 for a key. I'm not used to using this much light...especially with such a sensative camera, but the studio was very large and high. The 24P frame rate with the film setup card really looks like film, especially when there is movement. I didn't use any filtration because it looked too soft with it, so no net behind the glass, no mattebox filters. I didn't like the size of the Fujinon HD 20X lens. It is huge and I was glad I didn't have to have it on my shoulder. When I did the checkout at the rental company, the guy told me the camera was very popular and that he couldn't keep it in the shop. He said he wished he had another one! Got me thinking!!!
Ken

 

[adam]

Ken this isn't the same camera but an interesting write up on another Panasonic camera. I had no idea that Panasonic had hired away several Ike engineers (towards the end of the review).

http://www.dvformat.com/htm/HomeSet1.htm

It's amazing, I would guess 80 percent of the posts on this site regarding Panasonic express some skepticism. Is it possible that they're actually getting it done?

 

[dhart]

This term "DVC-Pro" is a tad confusing. There are really two formats; "DVC Pro 25" 4:1:1 and "DVC Pro 50" which is 4:2:2. (The main difference between the two is DVC Pro 50 retains more of the color information) The latter has a data rate of 50 mbs the former 25 mbs. DVC Pro 50 is Panasonic's answer to Sony's IMX format. You're right, it is an excellent field format but DVC Pro 50 edit decks are still a rarity, hence the producer's need to convert to another format for post. Although I've been a Sony and Ikegami fan for years there is little doubt that Panasonic is finally getting it together in the camcorder area.

Personally I'm waiting for the new Panasonic solid state memory card based camcorder. Same recording "format" as DVC Pro 50 but records on a memory card with no moving parts. The card reader will cost next to nothing so we may be able to introduce a better recording format with little hassle for the producer. Just about any post house will have one and we can "loan" our cards with our material on them and the producer can return when finished (they're good for 200,000 passes). I happen to believe we're in the twilight of tape based recording, but that's just one man's opinion. BTW look for this new technology to be introduced first or second quarter of next year.

 

[imported_blank]

Actually dhart, there is a DVCpro-100 which is HD. You are right though DVCpro as well as BetaCam are confusing. Really it's just the shell name now a days.

Ken, I hope your shoot went well, was this your first HD shoot??? I'm glad that HD cameras are getting so popular.

Note that a lot of people shooting with the Varicam (for film not EFP) lay to HD-D5, which is uncompressed (although uncompressed is also miss leading as one format can shoot uncompressed at much higher rate then another format. Depends how much data the HD format throws away before laying.

 

[Thomas]

Ken:

So there you are...

Don't forget that the Varicam was engineered, in large part, by Ikegami people. That's why it isn't your mentor's Panasonic.

I see the Varicam out there more than I see F900s. Video-based photographers, and film people, too, just like it better than the overly-complicated Sony.

The Varicam uses a computer, rather than actually varying the speed of the tape, to achieve it's different frame rates. It has less pixels than the Sony but the ones it does have are larger, so there is a constant debate relative to the resolution of both cameras. Also, the Panasonic is progressive scan, you get full resolution images, not double the number of half-resolution images that the Sony outputs.

Finally, the Varicam has a built-in "film" look. In the Sony, you have to arrive at that on your own -- and many times, there just isn't the time to do that. With the Panasonic, a flip of the switch gives you a different look.

Ken, did you rent it from the guys in Allston?

Let's talk.

 

[imported_blank]

Hold on there Tom. I do not know which camera is better (never used either) but I do know that any camera that has 24P or any "P" shoots in progressive scan.

I do know that the HDW-F900 is capable of record/playback of 1080 line 24/25/30 frame progressive or 50/60 interlace images. ((23.98, 24, 25, 29, 29.97, 30 progressive scan frames per second, 50Hz, 59.94Hz and 60Hz interlaced to be exact))

Do you mean to say that when the Sony is in Progressive mode it only shoots with half the pixels? I'm asking because I do not know. Also, what exactly do you mean that larger but less pixels give you more resolution? As in larger 1280 x 720 pixels opposed to smaller 1920 x 1080 pixels? I'm not debating you but please explain and help me understand this.

As to that "film look" isn't that what the Sony set-up cards are for? Just like a flip of the switch in the Pana?

I do know that both the Sony and the Panasonic are being used as 24P (film replacement) shoots. I do know that some people prefer the Panasonic and some people prefer the Sony but I have never heard that a larger percentage of cinematographers prefer the Pana over the Sony.

Again, I'm not debating cause I haven't tried them but this is what I hear on the streets.

 

[dinosaur]

The reason that the Varicam is becoming quite popular with cinematographers, particlularly those who used to shoot Super 16mm, is the aesthetics of an "overcrank" look that more resembles film "slow motion" or "fast-motion" photography.

The Varicam comes equipped with a feature, in film terms, to "overcrank" or "undercrank" whereas the "Varicam replicates many of the key features of film-based image acquisition, including 24-frame progressive scan images, time lapse recording, and a wide range of variable frame rates (4-fps to 60-fps in single-frame increments) for "overcranked" and "undercranked" off-speed in-camera effects." For example, companies that used to shoot a considerable amount of 16mm film like MLB, NHL, NBA & now ABC Sports/ESPN-HD are now replacing their film shoots with the Varicam merely because of the "overcrank" slo-mo feature, which producers consider critical to capturing sports action. Sony Cine Alta F900 does not yet have this feature.

So even though both cameras can simulate standard
film rates with a 24p feature, the Varicam is gaining marketshare based on its additional "overcrank" feature. Analogy: If you were given a choice between shooting sports with an Arri SR that could go up to 48fps and one that could only run 24fps, which would you choose?

We may not like that the image data is recorded on a less robust cassette tape than a Betacam width cassette, but Panasonic has loaded the Varicam camera head with some great features that Sony seems to have overlooked.

 

[adam]

I've asked before, and I'll ask again... why would anyone want to shoot in 24 frames given the amazing editing filters that exist for low cost?
I've mentioned this film before; 24 Hour Party people was shot in some form of DV (PAL I presume) and run through the Magic Bullet filter. I recommend checking out the DVD and taking a look at the untreated "Deleted Scenes", the difference is breathtaking. Given these options, why muck about with 24p. HD I can get into but given potential compatability issues and pan/tilt ratio problems I just don't get it.

 

[Ken]

hey guys...I know I've been absent lately...but cobwebs have been growing on this site. So I only check in occasionally. I figured there would be some interest in the Panasonic stuff. It looks like the format change may be coming soon...we're on the cusp. I'm now starting to get calls for cameras I don't have. And I can't afford to buy a new one...biz is still too slow...at least for me, tho others are feeling an upturn. but hey, 13 days so far this month. I might buy the family a steak this weekend!!
Tom, I got the camera in Allston at Boston Camera. They were serious when they said they wish they had another. maybe we should buy one of these suckers...I don't want to jump in too early tho...remember what happened to Galen. But this tapeless stuff could really change all. Maybe it's better to wait. Should we sell our 600s while we can still get over 10K for them? And rent them when we need them?
Man I wish I knew all this tech talk that you guys do. All I do is light, frame and push the tit. I didn't even know what format I was shooting. My brain is not big enough for all the tech info. I overload and shut down.
Friday I'm using the Varicams baby sister. I guess it's not HD or 24P but people still like it...apparently better than Betacam cause they're not renting my camera! I guess it's DVC Pro (50?). It's for American Experience. They were one of the last holdouts actually filming with 16mm. I guess they've really dropped their standards. Sheesh, they're using me AND dvc pro!!! BTW, one cool boastful announcement (cause this type o'sh*t don't happen often). For those of you in NYC, check out the giant NBC screen in Times Square. Twice an hour all of September a National PSA I did (Betacam) for Alcoholics Annonymous is running in all it's giant screen glory. I gotta get down there and get a picture of it!!
Ken

 

[cameragod]

Originally posted by adam:
I've asked before, and I'll ask again... why would anyone want to shoot in 24 frames given the amazing editing filters that exist for low cost?
I've mentioned this film before; 24 Hour Party people was shot in some form of DV (PAL I presume) and run through the Magic Bullet filter. I recommend checking out the DVD and taking a look at the untreated "Deleted Scenes", the difference is breathtaking. Given these options, why muck about with 24p. HD I can get into but given potential compatability issues and pan/tilt ratio problems I just don't get it.

I have to agree but then we shoot PAL which is 25 frames per and not the 30 frames of NTSC. Our pics are not as hard to make look film like if we want to.

 

[dinosaur]

If you don't understand how "overcrank" works, here's a good semi-technical article on it:

Overcrank explained.

 

[Thomas]

Ken:

The thing you did for Alcoholics Anonymous -- did you shoot it "shaky cam" or did you steady yourself with a tripod?

To answer your question with a question -- why would you ever sell your BVW D600? It is still the bread and butter rig and it will make you money for a number of years to come. It's the other cameras you will need to rent until the whole system shakes out and a defineable direction is clear. That may not happen in our lifetimes, though. It could be multi-formats from here on in. The real question is how to make the money you were used to making while renting these cameras. And the answer to that is somewhat elusive. But I think it rests somewhere in the area of equipment collectives where two or three or four photogs get together and buy gear and then share it.

 

[Ken]

Thomas wrote:
"The thing you did for Alcoholics Anonymous -- did you shoot it "shaky cam" or did you steady yourself with a tripod?"

Tom, I made sure I had several drinks before the AA job just to be in the right zone...and to be able to empathize with the target audience...! Actually we had pretty high production standards on that. A full grip truck with gaffer and grip, dolly, actors and everything (sheesh we actually had a working hollywood props police car)!! As to selling the D600, I'm being a bit tongue in cheek. I'm glad I opted for the 16X9 D600 because that option is being used a lot lately. I've been using it for the NOVA that I'm currently doing (yes, they're doing it in Beta SP Ivan!). I think the Camera Collective idea is a good one. Although, if you just use rental houses...no money on the line...(and no money coming in!!). It's a catch 22. You're right. It will be a long time till it really shakes out. How's the FCP going? I want some lessons!! BTW, I found out yesterday that the PBS documentary I did 2 years ago (aired last year) was nominated for a national emmy. Show me the money!!