Large Format Still photography

[Michaelrosenblum]

Does anyone have any experience shooting 4x5 or 8x10 film view cameras?
I would like to try this.
thanks

 

[The Thing on The Sticks]

I had some back when I shot more stills than video. My advice buy a good stills tripod and use it. What I remember the mamiya and other medium and large format cameras are very unforgiving in terms of focus and movement if I remember correctly.

 

[Nino]

Does anyone have any experience shooting 4x5 or 8x10 film view cameras?
I would like to try this.
thanks

What do you want to know about view cameras

 

[Speed Graphic]

Before I get busted either by a few of my old co-workers from a former station who lurk here, or some of my FaceBook friends...I do shoot 4x5 large format as a hobby. Though I shoot with a press camera, not a view camera - two very different beasts even though superficially the cameras may look rather similar.

Michael, I would strongly suggest if you really want to get into large format photography, for you to come join the communities at APUG and the Large Format Photography Forum. Both forums are inhabited with friendly photogs who are always happy to hand out advice for shooting large format.

 

[Michaelrosenblum]

What do you want to know about view cameras

I was recently at the Armory Art Show in NY and I saw a number of very large C-prints on exhibition. I was taken by their power. I really like Gursky, for example.

I went over to Laumont, which does this kind of printing, hoping to be able to make something similar from my own digital images from the Leica. Thinking that it is 16mpl, it would be good enough. Wrong. Even the digital Hasselblad at 50mpl is not good enough, apparently. All thsoe very large, very detailed, very powerful images are made from film (so they told me), either 4x5 or 8x10.

I shot with a Hasselblad c/m for years, but they said that the 6x6 is not good enough either. So now I am starting to look at either 4x5 or 8x10. I did start to explore the online forums recommended above by Speed Graphic and there seems to be a variety of opinion (as with everything else) on is 4x5 good enough.

One of the arguments seems to be the difficulty of getting 8x10 sheet film.

I am going to England in 2 weeks, and want to rent a camera from Calumet or Adorama to try this out before I buy anything.

Questions:
1. What is the best camera to get to get a good idea of this process. Calument has a lot of them both size and brand.
2. What is the best way to meter exposure for this kind of work? Do you use a grey card?
3. What kind of film do you recommend for this? I am looking for the slowest speed and hence the greatest density I can find, but how far do you have to do in either format and still remain workable?
4. How do you have to treat the film both before and after - ie, does it have to be refrigerated?

any other advice you can give greatly appreciated.

thanks

 

[editor_dude]

If you have time you should read Ansel Adams book "The Camera" if its still in print.
Handling large format film, you need to keep your film holders as clean as possible. Static can build up between the film and the metal holder causing dust to stick much like dust is drawn to you digatl sensor. You will want to make multible exposures of the same supject due to the dust factor. You should also invest in a very good changing bag.

For metering I use a modified spot meter. It is a pentax 2 degree modified by Zone VI. I belive Calumet is now the distributer of Zone VI products now. This meter is acurate to within a 6th of a stop and has a zone gauge on the barrel, for your ease in using the zone system.

Refrigeration depends on the stock you are using. Most photographers by large quantities of one lot and run exposure and densometry(sp) test on that lot, and then freeze until needed.

If your working in B&W I use Trix 400, the consumer version not the pro version, developed in HC110. I don't work in color large format.

 

[Nino]

I shot with a Hasselblad c/m for years, but they said that the 6x6 is not good enough either. So now I am starting to look at either 4x5 or 8x10. I did start to explore the online forums recommended above by Speed Graphic and there seems to be a variety of opinion (as with everything else) on is 4x5 good enough.

One of the arguments seems to be the difficulty of getting 8x10 sheet film.

I am going to England in 2 weeks, and want to rent a camera from Calumet or Adorama to try this out before I buy anything.

Questions:
1. What is the best camera to get to get a good idea of this process. Calument has a lot of them both size and brand.
2. What is the best way to meter exposure for this kind of work? Do you use a grey card?
3. What kind of film do you recommend for this? I am looking for the slowest speed and hence the greatest density I can find, but how far do you have to do in either format and still remain workable?
4. How do you have to treat the film both before and after - ie, does it have to be refrigerated?

any other advice you can give greatly appreciated.

thanks

I would definitely start with 4x5 and the finest grain film that you can find. keeping in mind that fine grain is also slower.

My best advise is to play with it before you take the trip. Don't forget that you don't bracket exposure with view cameras, if you do it can get very expensive and time consuming.

We always used gray card to set exposure but a lot depended on the set up and the lights. We also use incident exposure a lot. I don't think there's one correct method, it all depends on the scene.

I have no clue what film is available in sheet today, or what you might find in England. Like everything check around.

We used Plus X or Panatomic X for B&W and Ektachrome professional for color, very seldom we used negative. Remember that Ektacolor X professional if Kodak still makes it, had to be filter corrected at the camera as per Kodak instructions depending on the emulsion batch.

Color required refrigeration, B&W didn't. If refrigerated the film has to be removed from the cold several hours before loading to prevent condensation.

Let’s take it from the top of what’s the main purpose of a view camera.

Perspective control is what view cameras were made for. The camera have unlimited movements of the lens board and film plane. They tilt, swing, raise, lower and film plane and lens board work independently from each other. Many of the better cameras such as the Swiss made Sinar had all the control with micro adjustments, meaning that small changes could make a big difference. Most of the less expensive one had simple lock knobs to fasten the movements.

The main purpose of al these adjustments is to control converging or diverging lines. The most common one is when you look at a tall building where the building gets smaller as it gets to the top. This is usually the result of he camera being tilted upward thus converging the lines as they get further away from the camera. By keeping the film and the lens planes parallel to the vertical line the convergence is eliminated. But of course now the camera is pointed to the lower half of the building and what we are seeing is foreground and half the building. At this point you can raise the lens board just as you would tilt the camera upward but because the camera planes are parallel to the vertical lines of the subject, convergence is eliminated.

On the contrary if you want to exaggerate the perspective you would do exactly the opposite.

This is a very basic function of the view camera, the possibilities are endless.

Film is loaded into individual film holders that hold two sheet per holder. After you compose the shot you close the shutter in the lens, you then insert the film holder, remover the dark slide, expose the film, replace the dark slide, remove and turn around the film holder repeat to expose the film.

Inserting film in the holder or “loading the film” must be done in total darkness and it will take some practice to get it right.

Composing and focusing in done on the ground glass in the back of the camera. You’ll need a blind or a black cloth to see what you have. The ground glass is very dark and normally you must view the image at the selected F stop for the exposure, otherwise you might get different results from what you saw on the ground glass. Often you need to stay under the black cloth long enough to get your eyes adjusted to the darkness. You’ll also need a strong magnifying loop to focus the camera. Focusing is accomplished by moving the lens board back and forward on the main rail.

The view camera is a sophisticated version of a “camera obscura” meaning that the image is upside down, that’ll take sometime to get used to.

Depth of field is very important especially for architectural or scenic photography. Meaning long exposures especially if you are using slow film. Don’t forget that some of these lenses have a maximum aperture of F8. A good tripod and a cable release is very important. For even steadier images we used pneumatic or air shutter releases as most good lenses had a pneumatic cylinder to control the shutter.
The most modern version, if we can call it that, is he speed graphic or 4x5 press camera. These camera have very little in term of perspective control movements, they were intended for press photography. The most advanced automation about these cameras was the invention of an automatic film holder. There was a holder that held I believe 6 sheet of film instead of the regular two and each sheet advanced automatically as the exposed film moved in he back of the stack.

8x10 view cameras were used mostly to avoid enlarging the image. Regardless of the size, enlargements will always degrade the end product. We use to compose the required final image on the ground glass. The advertising client actually gave us acetate film with an outline of the finished image. We placed this acetate on he ground glass and composed the image according to the size. Then he finished film, usually Ektachrome if Kodak, was contact printed for color separation.

There were 8x10 enlargers the size of a small car, I wonder if here are any around left, particularly those with color heads. We had 2 in our lab. 4x5 were much more popular.

My fellow Floridian Clyde Butcher is probably the most famous photographer alive that still use an old 8x10 wooden view camera for his work. I think I have see an 11x14 camera too, but I could be wrong.

http://www.clydebutcher.com/

When I drive to Miami and I have some time to kill I take the old route 41 instead of the modern I-75, even if I have to stay alert for crossing gators, one of my favorite stops is Clyde’s studio in the middle of the Everglades.

 

[Michaelrosenblum]

Many thanks Nino, that was EXTREMELY helpful.
I am going to get a Sinar from Calumet and practice here with it first.
I really appreciate all the very good advice.
m

 

[couryhouse]

Many thanks Nino, that was EXTREMELY helpful.
I am going to get a Sinar from Calumet and practice here with it first.
I really appreciate all the very good advice.
m

Mike! I just noticed this thread!

Large format photography is fasinating... Dust is the biggest foe...

Also... get a good loope magnifier to use on the ground glass

I had just posted some pix of my old cameras on another tread this evening.
see this page... http://www.b-roll.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25305&page=2

Yes Mike a good idea to just set it on the tripod and play with it.

I wish a digital back for 4x5 was a better price...

I sold my sinar outfit ages ago but still have an old Graphic View II ( the view camera made by the speed graphic folks ) I kept it because ot had been my uncles.


and Nino! Great Information!