Contracts for photogs?
- Thread starter Spot remover
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lost focus
Well-known member
if you find a home in Ft. myers that is 160K or under you had better like getting shot at frequently. Real average is around 220K for a standard 3/2.
A Step Above Productions
Well-known member
You are correct sir – the homes you would want to live in for $158,000 are not ones you want (can you say crack house?). When I was there I was living and working in Naples. I purchased my first home in 2003 for just over 200 grand (and more than doubled my investment in two years) my advice is buy a home – even with the real estate market where it is now… in three years you will make more on your home than you will working in any TV station in Florida.
I don’t understand why Photogs b1tch so much about the pay… You know what the pay is when you take the job… if you don’t like what they are paying DON’T TAKE THE JOB!
As far as WINK goes… reporters and Photogs get about the same - maybe the reporters get 1 grand more a year.
I got out of the day-to-day news business, because I wanted more money. If you wan't more money either get out or don’t take a job until you get what you want.
You can b1tch as much as you want but nothing will change. I live in West Palm Beach now – the Photogs here are starting at the same rate they did ten years ago. The reason why I am out on my own.
If I were to get back in the business now – I would have no problem with a contract. GROW UP GUYS!
I don’t understand why Photogs b1tch so much about the pay… You know what the pay is when you take the job… if you don’t like what they are paying DON’T TAKE THE JOB!
As far as WINK goes… reporters and Photogs get about the same - maybe the reporters get 1 grand more a year.
I got out of the day-to-day news business, because I wanted more money. If you wan't more money either get out or don’t take a job until you get what you want.
You can b1tch as much as you want but nothing will change. I live in West Palm Beach now – the Photogs here are starting at the same rate they did ten years ago. The reason why I am out on my own.
If I were to get back in the business now – I would have no problem with a contract. GROW UP GUYS!
shootercub
Well-known member
Yea guys.. The answer seems unanimous.
$
Being paid, or even better, being rewarded for tenure or skill should be your goal.
Leaving my last market was hard. I worked for a great station with awesome benefits including NPPA workshop being a standard of employment.
Even more so, the environment there was challenging, rewarding and even POSITIVE!
When I talked about a job search, they didn't offer me a dime.
Hello?
I want to own a house!
You know, the American Dream?
T.V. stations are always complaining they aren't making money.
Rediculous. Though they aren't considered the cash cows they once were, they are indeed MAKING MONEY.
The real issue here is the cost of screening and interviewing candidates. It's not cheap and certainly not convenient to fly in, house, and feed potential candidates everytime John Q. Shooter comes in to interview.
Want to save the measly $1500 it costs you to interview job seekers? Pay them some money that will keep them with you.
If you are paying 25k and they can make 50k in a neighboring market, then pay them 40k! Or something like that, you can figure that out.
T.V. stations need to remember that VIDEO is their BUSINESS.
Not stupid anchors, or reporters.. Talking heads are vapid and boring! STORIES are what keep your viewers.
PAY FOR TALENT.
$
Being paid, or even better, being rewarded for tenure or skill should be your goal.
Leaving my last market was hard. I worked for a great station with awesome benefits including NPPA workshop being a standard of employment.
Even more so, the environment there was challenging, rewarding and even POSITIVE!
When I talked about a job search, they didn't offer me a dime.
Hello?
I want to own a house!
You know, the American Dream?
T.V. stations are always complaining they aren't making money.
Rediculous. Though they aren't considered the cash cows they once were, they are indeed MAKING MONEY.
The real issue here is the cost of screening and interviewing candidates. It's not cheap and certainly not convenient to fly in, house, and feed potential candidates everytime John Q. Shooter comes in to interview.
Want to save the measly $1500 it costs you to interview job seekers? Pay them some money that will keep them with you.
If you are paying 25k and they can make 50k in a neighboring market, then pay them 40k! Or something like that, you can figure that out.
T.V. stations need to remember that VIDEO is their BUSINESS.
Not stupid anchors, or reporters.. Talking heads are vapid and boring! STORIES are what keep your viewers.
PAY FOR TALENT.
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Necktie Boy
Well-known member
I'm with Shootercub.....I think all of us would like to be like our dads, support our families....But the pay that we receive is below average. We do this job cause we like what we do, but why does the pay suck? Station are making money. They wouldn't pay big $$$ for the anchors?? We are part of a team...Where's the team pay?
svp
Well-known member
Here's a thought for you. Our station has lost nearly all its veteran talent (reporters/anchors) in the past 12 months and replaced them with green rookies that don't have near the experience or skills that the veterans had. Our best producer left for San Antonio and I don't even want to get into what that's done to the writing. To the frown of managment, everyone was pretty open with what they made and we were always reminded by management that one ratings point equals 1 million in profit. Doing the math, I've figured that our station has saved about 400k on salaries from this time last year. However, if what they say about ratings is correct, the station has lost about 2 million in revenue since they cut the talent. All the talent wanted was to be paid a respectable wage and earn a little more. Corporate wouldn't hear of it and the result has been a 1.6 million loss. Now, everyone left with talent is trying to get out. Our newscast looks like dog crap everynight and the ratings continue to fall.
The same applies for photogs. Its not the camera on the shoulder but the shoulder under the camera that brings the story.
It takes money to make money. If stations want great ratings, they're going to have to pay for the talent to get it done.
I need to clarify one thing. When I say we've lost 2 million due to ratings, I'm comparing the current day to day ratings of this book (November) to November of last year.
The same applies for photogs. Its not the camera on the shoulder but the shoulder under the camera that brings the story.
It takes money to make money. If stations want great ratings, they're going to have to pay for the talent to get it done.
I need to clarify one thing. When I say we've lost 2 million due to ratings, I'm comparing the current day to day ratings of this book (November) to November of last year.
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S
shade
Guest
spot remover
ok after hearing all this feedback, what have you come up with. just curious.
ok after hearing all this feedback, what have you come up with. just curious.
Spot remover
Well-known member
Here's what I've come up with:
Obviously, Pre-set and I do not agree regarding contracts. If I had a choice, I wouldn't have contracts either, but the photog situation is such that I need to control and predict the turnover at this station. As it is now, there have been times when I have lost 5 photogs in 6 weeks (mostly to larger markets) and it took me months to find qualified replacements. I hear our competition is having similar problems.
Our pay rate is not kept secret(heck, I've stated on this site to the world three or four times) and the photog is assured of a KNOWN raise amount in year two- do YOU really know, to the penny, what your raise will be this year? No one is looking to screw any photogs over- there are literally thousands of other stations to work at and no one is made to sign. No current photog is punished in any way for not signing and they are free to go (or stay) whenever they wish and will still receive regular raise reviews as before.
Can my average photog buy a house? A few have managed to buy at least a condo as recently as last year (a one-income photog)- most don't. However, most of our reporters don't own either. If you knew you were going to leave in 7 or eight months would you buy? Probably not. It will be interesting to see if that changes with the contracts. I'm not saying it will, just that it might.
Pre-Set says we should be paying $41,000/year. That's roughly $19.75/hour. If "A Step Above Productions" is right (I have every reason to think he is), that's more or less what market 13, 15 & 20 pays in this state (Tampa, Miami, Orlando).
Should a market 40+ sizes smaller pay the same as top 20 markets? I would like that- it would make my job as easy as just posting the position and waiting for the resumes to roll in and photogs would stay for years. But I'm kept at a starting pay rate of no more than $28k/year, so there it is. I have to attract and keep photogs while working with THIS number and no amount of "You should pay
$41,000/yr." will change that. I cannot pay $41k now or at anytime in the future- so should I just fold the newscast and go home? I'm stuck, for better or worse, with what I'm given and I'm looking for solutions to the station's (and therefore, my) dilemma.
I'm instituting solutions to that problem and my bosses will decide if my ideas are the correct ones...ironically, they'll do that by deciding whether or not to renew MY contract.
BTW, I really do appreciate Pre-Set's (and others)opinions as they have made me closely examine this uncharted territory and our decision to go forward.
Obviously, Pre-set and I do not agree regarding contracts. If I had a choice, I wouldn't have contracts either, but the photog situation is such that I need to control and predict the turnover at this station. As it is now, there have been times when I have lost 5 photogs in 6 weeks (mostly to larger markets) and it took me months to find qualified replacements. I hear our competition is having similar problems.
Our pay rate is not kept secret(heck, I've stated on this site to the world three or four times) and the photog is assured of a KNOWN raise amount in year two- do YOU really know, to the penny, what your raise will be this year? No one is looking to screw any photogs over- there are literally thousands of other stations to work at and no one is made to sign. No current photog is punished in any way for not signing and they are free to go (or stay) whenever they wish and will still receive regular raise reviews as before.
Can my average photog buy a house? A few have managed to buy at least a condo as recently as last year (a one-income photog)- most don't. However, most of our reporters don't own either. If you knew you were going to leave in 7 or eight months would you buy? Probably not. It will be interesting to see if that changes with the contracts. I'm not saying it will, just that it might.
Pre-Set says we should be paying $41,000/year. That's roughly $19.75/hour. If "A Step Above Productions" is right (I have every reason to think he is), that's more or less what market 13, 15 & 20 pays in this state (Tampa, Miami, Orlando).
Should a market 40+ sizes smaller pay the same as top 20 markets? I would like that- it would make my job as easy as just posting the position and waiting for the resumes to roll in and photogs would stay for years. But I'm kept at a starting pay rate of no more than $28k/year, so there it is. I have to attract and keep photogs while working with THIS number and no amount of "You should pay
$41,000/yr." will change that. I cannot pay $41k now or at anytime in the future- so should I just fold the newscast and go home? I'm stuck, for better or worse, with what I'm given and I'm looking for solutions to the station's (and therefore, my) dilemma.
I'm instituting solutions to that problem and my bosses will decide if my ideas are the correct ones...ironically, they'll do that by deciding whether or not to renew MY contract.
BTW, I really do appreciate Pre-Set's (and others)opinions as they have made me closely examine this uncharted territory and our decision to go forward.
WayoutWest
Member
two cents
are these contracts going to be non compete with your other local stations for x amount of months? depending on the situation I would be willing to do a contract if I knew a raise was guarenteed quarterly. wouldn't have to be huge or just one nice raise a year. I enjoy the area where I live so a contract wouldn't be a big deal to me. Unless there were stipulations that I didn't agree with.
I've only been in news for about three years and haven't ever seen it as a long term goal. Eventually I'd like to move to a production house. In the meantime I'm accepting that I won't make a ton of money but will get good expereince and have as much fun as possible. Plus the upside of this job is the amount of contacts you make along the way that can lead to other opportunities later on.
are these contracts going to be non compete with your other local stations for x amount of months? depending on the situation I would be willing to do a contract if I knew a raise was guarenteed quarterly. wouldn't have to be huge or just one nice raise a year. I enjoy the area where I live so a contract wouldn't be a big deal to me. Unless there were stipulations that I didn't agree with.
I've only been in news for about three years and haven't ever seen it as a long term goal. Eventually I'd like to move to a production house. In the meantime I'm accepting that I won't make a ton of money but will get good expereince and have as much fun as possible. Plus the upside of this job is the amount of contacts you make along the way that can lead to other opportunities later on.
Spot remover
Well-known member
Raises are granted
...on a yearly basis for the following reasons:
-With 15 photogs, the last thing our one HR person and I need is to process 60 raise forms a year. If we did that with the reporters too, we'd be filling out more than 120 forms per year just for raises. And that's just the newsroom. We have a total of 220+ employees and the number would be...well, it would be big...
- We all know about the "I'll take a teeny 2% raise quarterly instead of a big 6% yearly one" strategty.
Let's keep it simple for everyone's sake.
...on a yearly basis for the following reasons:
-With 15 photogs, the last thing our one HR person and I need is to process 60 raise forms a year. If we did that with the reporters too, we'd be filling out more than 120 forms per year just for raises. And that's just the newsroom. We have a total of 220+ employees and the number would be...well, it would be big...
- We all know about the "I'll take a teeny 2% raise quarterly instead of a big 6% yearly one" strategty.
Let's keep it simple for everyone's sake.
Spot remover
Well-known member
I forgot to add that there is a one year non-compete for our market only. You can work anywhere else in the country once your contract expires.
In a "Right-to-Work" state, such as Florida, can the contract be legally binding? If they sign the contract, what is their job protection? If you fire them, would the non-compete clause still be binding?
I see a lot of loopholes here. I know Bay News 9 has contracts, but they also offer perks.
If housing cost is such a factor... Maybe housing is the answer.
If management were to buy some condos, and offer to let employees live in them at at a subsidized rate, then the employees might be able to put some money away. They might be able to save up for a downpayment, and eventually become long time employees.
With finances the way they are, all market sizes are having problems finding photogs. Creative perks might be the solution.
With rent close $1000, plus a car payment and maybe a student loan... That doesn't leave a photog any living expenses at 28K a year.
I see a lot of loopholes here. I know Bay News 9 has contracts, but they also offer perks.
If housing cost is such a factor... Maybe housing is the answer.
If management were to buy some condos, and offer to let employees live in them at at a subsidized rate, then the employees might be able to put some money away. They might be able to save up for a downpayment, and eventually become long time employees.
With finances the way they are, all market sizes are having problems finding photogs. Creative perks might be the solution.
With rent close $1000, plus a car payment and maybe a student loan... That doesn't leave a photog any living expenses at 28K a year.
The true Nige
Member
money's always a problem....
I guess I would have to start with my opinion, I don't like the sound of contracts for photogs. Having said that I do have a question or two. What about overtime? Most contract employees don't receive OT, would contract photogs still get that? If it has already been answered I'm sorry for the repeat. How does WINK work with repaying moving expenses? Do you have to repay before a year is up? I used to work at a station (hell I think my current station might do it to) that made a photog sign a "mini" contract after going to NPPA, etc. I think its 6mos to a year.
Many moons ago I was a chief at a simillar sized market (knoxville) and had much the same problem. I lost 5 photogs 1 month into the job and had two more go on "vacation" the next month. It stunk! At my shop the main reason seemed to be market size, not money. I couldn't get young folks to stay at a mid sized market if the grass was greener in a big market. There's simply to much adventure in young photogs hearts.
Good luck with your solution it is a sticky siuation. Finally I will say that the answer to newsroom respect and equality isn't a contract, but higher pay or perceived pay. It is an ugly cycle isn't it.
I guess I would have to start with my opinion, I don't like the sound of contracts for photogs. Having said that I do have a question or two. What about overtime? Most contract employees don't receive OT, would contract photogs still get that? If it has already been answered I'm sorry for the repeat. How does WINK work with repaying moving expenses? Do you have to repay before a year is up? I used to work at a station (hell I think my current station might do it to) that made a photog sign a "mini" contract after going to NPPA, etc. I think its 6mos to a year.
Many moons ago I was a chief at a simillar sized market (knoxville) and had much the same problem. I lost 5 photogs 1 month into the job and had two more go on "vacation" the next month. It stunk! At my shop the main reason seemed to be market size, not money. I couldn't get young folks to stay at a mid sized market if the grass was greener in a big market. There's simply to much adventure in young photogs hearts.
Good luck with your solution it is a sticky siuation. Finally I will say that the answer to newsroom respect and equality isn't a contract, but higher pay or perceived pay. It is an ugly cycle isn't it.
A Step Above Productions
Well-known member
Randy,
Just my opinion - but a one year non-compete would be a deal breaker for me. That is a long time.
I will use WINK as an example - If Fort Myers were home to "me" (all my family was there) and I worked through my contract and WBBH can to me with a job offer that paid more than WINK and had a better schedule. I would want to take it, and would not want to wait a year for it (and you know it would not be there in 12 months).
It is not fair to make a Photog wait a year fo a better job.
I understand on air folks to non-competes - the people at home know who they are and there is a chance you will lose viewers to the switch.
But photogs - no one knows who we are.
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Meh...
I just finished up school this past may, and have already made a move once (went "across the street") ... They had me on as a PT editor... (and wanted me to sign a non-compete) ...... but when I was looking for jobs, I avoided any that had a hint of contract. I didn't want to sign a contract, and I avoided it. However, if most of your hires are, like me, green... it could be a good trade off... it would be like the Army... "we train you, and owe us 2.. er 7 years"
I just finished up school this past may, and have already made a move once (went "across the street") ... They had me on as a PT editor... (and wanted me to sign a non-compete) ...... but when I was looking for jobs, I avoided any that had a hint of contract. I didn't want to sign a contract, and I avoided it. However, if most of your hires are, like me, green... it could be a good trade off... it would be like the Army... "we train you, and owe us 2.. er 7 years"
I see two levels of photogs being discussed here. Experienced and rookies.
The experienced should be given freedom to leave. They've paid their dues. How long that is would be up for discussion; 2 years, 3 years, 4 years?
But rookies should be taking a different attitute towards this. How many of you have PAID to work via your tuition at the college TV system you attended & worked at? Now you are getting advanced on the job training and you take that training and leave 6 months later. You pay with your hard work and loyalty. Otherwise you are the ripoff. If WINK is a good shop that provides a good training ground for a rookie shooter then the rookie owes a debt of gratitude for the chance to learn and move up. They may not be paying a living wage but then neither is the university you attended. Consider both the university and the entry level small market station to be learning experiences. But you are not paying your professor at the station, they are paying you!
Again, this is not a long term situation. At some point, you no longer owe the station a debt of gratitude. But to cut and run after 6 months is rude and low.
But I'm not suprised.
The experienced should be given freedom to leave. They've paid their dues. How long that is would be up for discussion; 2 years, 3 years, 4 years?
But rookies should be taking a different attitute towards this. How many of you have PAID to work via your tuition at the college TV system you attended & worked at? Now you are getting advanced on the job training and you take that training and leave 6 months later. You pay with your hard work and loyalty. Otherwise you are the ripoff. If WINK is a good shop that provides a good training ground for a rookie shooter then the rookie owes a debt of gratitude for the chance to learn and move up. They may not be paying a living wage but then neither is the university you attended. Consider both the university and the entry level small market station to be learning experiences. But you are not paying your professor at the station, they are paying you!
Again, this is not a long term situation. At some point, you no longer owe the station a debt of gratitude. But to cut and run after 6 months is rude and low.
But I'm not suprised.
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