Contracts for photogs?

[Spot remover]

Is anyone doing this? In any market?

I'm looking for a way to control and predict my photog turnover.

Obviously, we'd have to make it financially worthwhile for the photogs, but our turnover rate is compelling us to think of unique solutions to the problem.

I know the instant answer is more money, and that is part of our plan, but as a mid-60's market, we simply cannot pay the same as the top 20's markets which are hiring away my people at a high rate.

I'll listen to any serious replies. Also, if there are any markets that do offer contracts, I'd like details as to length, pay raise percentages and the way the contract is structured and any other details or advice.

If you'd like to keep it confidential, I can be e-mailed.

thanks.

 

[A Step Above Productions]

Randy,

Talk to the people at Bay News 9 in Tampa - they have three year contracts for their Photogs, and thye don't pay much more than you guys do.

Good luck

 

[F4 Fan]

Years ago (12-15) we had a producer who moved to Idaho and went to work for a station where the photographers were on 1-year contracts. While it isn't a common practice, it does seem that in smaller markets at least, that contracts aren't unprecedented.

 

[lost focus]

if you can't make it "financially worthwhile" the only other option is to make it experience worth while. Send photogs to training like the NPPA work shop, or advanced storytelling workshop, poynter ect, ect. I would, and have signed contracts to attend these things and though it was very worth my while. Of course the actual costs in cluded with all of travel and hotel ends up being a couple grand per person that you could have paid them more without the promises.

obviously anyway you cut it it's gonna cost money, but you know that....

 

[Mr MoOz]

Fill us in a little bit more on what kind of turn over you are getting? Have you asked the departing photogs what and why they are leaving for?

Money may not be the real reason; it could be many things, including items you may not like. Having a contract for someone who is usually on the low end of the money tree in the newsroom is a little bit like slavery.

If you want to keep them from going across the street, thats one thing; but if someone is able to move up from 22k to say 44k, why are you wanting to stop them? Moving up these days are harder and harder. Becoming the right smiling face at the right smiling time is not easy with budget cuts and hiring freezes.

So back to the question, fill us in abit more what is going on. What is your shop like, managers, who runs the show, opportunities to do things, how is competition, gear situation, cost of living in community, are these guys single, how fast does stuff get fixed, new toys, "broken windows" how many, what kind of boss are you, exactally how many are busting out, etc..

People leaving in a wave could be many things. You say you are in Fla, so that would Pensacola then. Are they tired of having a bullseye on their home? It could be you are just suffering from one of those waves that always come about in this biz, or its your deoderant..

 

[Spot remover]

the problem is...

No, we're not Pensacola, my station is WINK in Fort Myers.

I've lost something like 10 to 12 photogs in the past year.

Why? My photogs make about $26k/yr. to start. I've had at least three leave after less than 10 months here and go on to Tampa, Orlando or Miami for nearly $50,000/yr. to start. I don't blame them a bit and as they can all tell you, I don't get upset or take it personally when they leave for the money. We have OK cameras (DVCpro), two new live trucks arrivng in the next 90 days, wireless mics, light kits, decent cars, etc.

The station (#1), people and market are really nice, but when you dangle an extra $25,000 in front of a 23 y.o.'s eyes, they leave.

Wouldn't you leave for a twenty-five thousand dollar raise? I would.

We are arranging to have a NPPA POY winner come to the station to review tapes and provide advice and encouragement.

The purpose of the contracts is simply to control the bleeding and to better predict and anticipate the turnover. I usually bring very green photogs here, train them how to do everything from use interview lights to live truck operation and all the details in between and just as they really start becoming good photogs, BAM! a big market scoops them up after six months or so in groups of two or three (I lost five photogs in six weeks this year) and I'm scrambling to replace them with an ever-shrinking pool of candidates from smaller markets.

I'll never begrudge a photog the opportunity to better themselves by moving on, but I need to find a method to keep them here for a longer period that's beneficial to BOTH of us.

Your ideas are good ones and I'd like to hear more.

 

[shade]

trying to help out

the point about hiring "23 yr olds" really sticks out. try looking at photogs that have a bit more experience (yes i know the $$$) are'nt there but I'm sure there's one or two that are looking just to move to a warmer climate. I don't mean retirees but some w/couple o years that have done the big market stuff. I've seen a few threads of west coast shooters that are looking to move back to fla. balance trade offs (shift) along w/money and maybe it'll lure these guys back.

 

[Mr MoOz]

OUCH!, that does hurt. Now the picture is clearer. I forgot about Ft Myers.

 

[Mr MoOz]

Okay, something is making that many go looking for jobs. That is alot. Sounds like your whole staff has turned over. How large is it?

Things must have changed in Tampa and Miami, as they were being real cheap a couple of years ago. Orlando was always the one who paid well. Their cheap must be hirer now than what you can give.

So what is the life like in Ft Myers? Costs going up? Any fallout from Charley still? Any OT? Special projects? What is tehy age diff tween you and them? Were these all buds? Were they that good to begin with? What are they telling you? It cant be just the coin with that many, not that fast. Maybe you are teaching them too well, start by demanding a teaching fee! Too well so that they are getting cocky and feel that they need more coin.

Seriously, I know what is like to work in a low paying market. I started out at 6k when the guys across the street were at 12k+. Yeah I was dumb, stayed becuase of my surroundings.

In your case a contract may very well be the thing to do. I still think there is more to it than money. People do not usually look unless they are disenfranchised in some way.

What are they saying on the way out the door? Do you have a copy to the manual to send?

Apologies for all the questions, just want to help.

 

[shade]

as for miami money

50k to start in miami? hummmmm I don't know what station in miami is offering 50k for someone out of ft. myers even if it is a hot shot 23 year old. starting in mia now is somewhere between 35-39k for over 3yrs experience.

 

[A Step Above Productions]

Randy,

I don’t know what your guys are telling you but I don’t know of any new hires in Tampa, Orlando, or Miami making 50 grand a year.

The last I heard was Tampa paying the highest at 35 grand a year. Know one and I tell you know one is paying Photogs from WINK 50 grand a year… they are B.S.ing you.

And by the way WINK is a great place to work I left 18 months ago after five plus years as the Senior Photog to go out on my own, and I owe a lot to WINK.

 

[thru-the-lens]

Here's my advice if they want to put you under contract: Get it in writing that you "will recieve a 2% raise QUARTERLY." for the length of the contract.

Well over 8% a year. Think about it. Every 4 months you get a 2% raise. It add$ up.

thru-the-lens.

 

[Necktie Boy]

It's always money. When I was looking for a news job, in the back
of my brain, I planned to try to have a contract for better pay and
would promised not to leave in a few years. The reason behind that
was the very poor pay that the stations were offering. I make more
money working part time than I would make working at a number
of stations willing to pay me. But I know that there are contracts
for Producers and Managers. My buddy had one when he worked
in the news business

 

[lost focus]

I have searched, and had offers, in Tampa and Orlando. Your departing photogs are not making 50K base. Maybe with lots of OT. I know a few that went to tampa making mid-40's but I know those were the exception. but that is not the problem here.

whats necssary is a shift in the paridgim for pay in the newsroom. pay those anchors that do little more than show up an proof read less and share the wealth. The problem and solution is MONEY.

I spent 3 years in Ft. Myers. I got by, but only because I chose to live under my means (meager) and had no car payment, no student loan. I think I would enjoyed my time there had I been able to afford to take advantage of the area's attractions more. I think I would have even stayed longer if it didn't feel like I could be making a lot more elsewhere...and now I am. ( not in FL)

 

[lucky13]

I have been employed by the same station for 7 years now and have been under contract the entire time. I don't agree with having to sign a contract for employment, but I understand the reasoning so as to not lose photogs within a few months to other stations. I think that they should be just for newbies to the business and not for the veterans out there. It has been a real pain as I have had job offers with other stations, but since it didn't fall within my "out" I would have had to fork over several thousands of dollars to buy out my contract. My station offers 2 and 3 year contracts with annual raises, but they do not necessarily give you any real incentive to sign (other than keeping your job). I would not go to another station that enforces a contract on photogs, other than a non-compete. Just my 2 cents.

 

[pre-set]

You couldn't pay me ENOUGH money to sign a contract.

Really. No way I'd do it.

We're underpaid as it is, and with a contract, you're basically telling me "Not only am I going to NOT pay you what you're worth, BUT, I'm also going to make sure you CAN'T go somewhere else for more money"...

That's what it is, plain and simple.

I don't care about your turnover issues - that's not my fault. If your station paid better, you wouldn't have turnover troubles. That's an undeniable truth of life.

But punishing employees and affecting their personal economic well-being so that your station and management and owners can enjoy lower operating costs (salaries) and higher profits is just bullsh!t.

Don't like turnover? Pay more. Don't wanna pay more? Then deal with turnover and savor the benefits of cheaper labor.....

 

[Spot remover]

reply to Pre-Set

We're underpaid as it is, and with a contract, you're basically telling me "Not only am I going to NOT pay you what you're worth, BUT, I'm also going to make sure you CAN'T go somewhere else for more money"...

That's what it is, plain and simple.

Uh, No, Pre-Set. It's not that "plain and simple".

No currently employed photog at this station will be forced to sign a contract- only new hires. If a currently employed photog does choose to sign, they would receive a significant boost in salary with an additional raise (in writing!) in year two. Belive it or not, there are photogs here who want to stay for the long term and we're looking to commit to those people. Those who do not sign will continue on as before.

All potential new hires are notified at first contact that a contract is required and they have ample time to back out if they wish. If they sign, we're stating in writing what we'll do, pay, etc. in a legally binding document.

Reporters, anchors and producers sign contracts, why not photogs? Photogs want to be treated on the same level as on-air talent or management- well, here's your opportunity. We sign contracts- you can too.

You would never work under a contract? Fine. Don't. Good for you.

Money is an issue. I KNOW. I had thought I stated that very plainly before (apparently not, it seems). So, I'll leave it to you, Pre-Set: Give me an EXACT amount of what this #64 market station should pay a starting full-time photog- to the penny, please.

I'm waiting...

 

[A Step Above Productions]

I spent five years at WINK working with “Spot Remover” AKA Randy… and it is not a bad pace to work. If I were still there I would have no problem committing to a contract. Randy is correct, we want to be treated as equals – so we need to play by there rules.

I know you will not get rich working at WINK – but when I was there and I have only been gone for 18 months or so – Photogs and Reporters were getting paid about the same.

I don’t see anything wrong with Photog contracts – just make sure you get what you want put into it.

I am now out on my own and will be expanding in the next couple of years – and when I do all employees I have working for me will be under contract.

It is piece of mind for the employee and employer.

 

[shade]

looks like Randy's attempting to do it the right way. reward the long timers. look its not easy to run a shop in that size market when u have three big ones close by.

 

[woodsiecam]

exactly

looks like Randy's attempting to do it the right way. reward the long timers. look its not easy to run a shop in that size market when u have three big ones close by.

dead on.

Breaking news, people: WE DON'T WORK FOR A NON-PROFIT CHARITY!

We work for a news station. And that news station is owned by corporate. And corporate is owned by stockholders. And stockholders want to make money.

And as long as that situation exists, we will be underpaid. Why? Because it keeps the stock from dropping.

Wanna make more money? Get experience and change markets. How? By working in a smaller market so you can move to a better one. Maybe you'll have to sign a contract, maybe you won't.

Seems that ALOT of people forget that not all compensation is monetary. Experience IS compensation.

Wanna make even more money? Get out of local news. Work for a production house, national, or sell your soul and work in politics.

There's alot of crappy jobs out there where you can make plenty of money. Most of us are in news because we like what we do. So most of us take a pay cut to do what we love.

That's life. It's a balance of what you want. If you wanted money more than anything else, you wouldn't be in news.

Alright, I'm off my soapbox... I couldn't afford to buy one, so I rented it and they want it back now.