C300 vs. PMW400

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Starman

Well-known member
It looks like my 3700 is going to sell, so that's good news.

I was going to get a PMW400, but I am re-considering. I do get requests for XDCAM, but rarely and when I do, often the client demands a PMW700/800. That is a very expensive purchase for me and I do not have enough XDCAM demand to pay it off. Considering that I am not yet in the tightly knit circle of network/newsmagazine shooters who do it on a regular basis, I am not shooting XDCAM. Would owning an XDCAM help get me in this circle that I would love to be a part of? Probably not. I don't want to put the cart before the horse.

Truth is, I am seeing the Canon C300 on more and more broadcast shoots that I am a part of, case in point, working as an A/C for CBS Sports, I am swapping lenses and rigging up a C300. Even on corporate shoots and TV spots, documentaries, etc. seeing more and more of the C300. I have a friend who bought one and he is shooting with it all the time.

I think that having my HPX370 with the good broadcast Fuji glass that I now have, is fine for my ENG style shoots. It does 720,1080, SD, HD, PAL, NTSC, everything I need it to do, if I added a C300 to my arsenal, I would have a pretty good kit and the client would have the option of a larger sensor as well. I could cover ENG and cine style shoots, both of which I am currently a part of.

I don't think that having an XDCAM AND a P2, thus having 2 ENG cameras would be as smart as having an ENG camera and a Cine style camera instead.
 
Latvos

Latvos

Member
I think you are right in wanting an ENG camera and a Cine style camera. As a C300 owner, I love the pictures from it but it is a hard camera to rig properly.

If I was buying today it would be a Sony F5 with a shoulder mount and B4 lens adaptor.

Sony know how to make professional cameras that just seem to work.
My other camera is a PMW350 which gets heavy use on daily turnaround news and current affairs shoots.

Between the two very different looking cameras we can keep most clients happy.
 
R

Robin

Well-known member
Latvos said:
I think you are right in wanting an ENG camera and a Cine style camera. As a C300 owner, I love the pictures from it but it is a hard camera to rig properly.

If I was buying today it would be a Sony F5 with a shoulder mount and B4 lens adaptor.

Sony know how to make professional cameras that just seem to work.
My other camera is a PMW350 which gets heavy use on daily turnaround news and current affairs shoots.

Between the two very different looking cameras we can keep most clients happy.
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I,d second that emotion.. C300 has got in first with 50 mbps.. and stole a march on the F3.. but Sony have now come out with the F5/55 ..light years better than C300 in all ways..
 
R

Run&Gun

Well-known member
I've said it before, I believe that if you are in the middle to high-end, you need to have a real ENG and large sensor camera. I currently shoot on P2 and a C300.
 
R

Robin

Well-known member
dhart said:
C 300 is a hot camera right now.
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Sure the S35 sensor look is the hot look these days.. shame the C300 is such a dog to work with.. there is thankfully now a better option.. besides the expensive Alexa.. The Sony F5/F55.. at last.. unfortunately producers/production managers" C300 " is the generic term they know for S35 sensor camera,s

But kudos to canon.. they got in quick with broadcast 50 Mbps.. were Sony was slow to get from F3 to F5/55.. but ultimately a far superior camera.. such a shame we are now in a period were we are thankful just for a proper VF.. WTF...:confused:
 
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Run&Gun

Well-known member
Robin said:
Sure the S35 sensor look is the hot look these days.. shame the C300 is such a dog to work with.. there is thankfully now a better option.. besides the expensive Alexa.. The Sony F5/F55.. at last.. unfortunately producers/production managers" C300 " is the generic term they know for S35 sensor camera,s

But kudos to canon.. they got in quick with broadcast 50 Mbps.. were Sony was slow to get from F3 to F5/55.. but ultimately a far superior camera.. such a shame we are now in a period were we are thankful just for a proper VF.. WTF...:confused:
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If the decision was based solely on what I wanted, I would have probably gone with an F55, but in my market the C300 is THE predominant large sensor/S35 camera. Even one of the larger production companies has gotten away from their REDs in favor of C300's. I believe at least on of theirs is a PL mount version.

I like the image that my Canon C300 makes, but the F55 is the overall superior camera.
 
R

Robin

Well-known member
Run&Gun said:
If the decision was based solely on what I wanted, I would have probably gone with an F55, but in my market the C300 is THE predominant large sensor/S35 camera. Even one of the larger production companies has gotten away from their REDs in favor of C300's. I believe at least on of theirs is a PL mount version.

I like the image that my Canon C300 makes, but the F55 is the overall superior camera.
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Sure .. I don't have shares in Sony.. its just that the C300 is so bad to work with.. for that reason I,d never buy one when there is F5 just a bit more exp.. and F55 to give the Alexa a good run for its money..
 
dhart

dhart

Well-known member
What I meant to say is producers are calling specifically requesting the C300. Although I'm sure the F55 is a better camera, they want the C300, at least in my marketplace. Down through the years I've little luck arguing about cameras with producers.
 
R

Run&Gun

Well-known member
Robin said:
Sure .. I don't have shares in Sony.. its just that the C300 is so bad to work with.. for that reason I,d never buy one when there is F5 just a bit more exp.. and F55 to give the Alexa a good run for its money..
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Sony has decades of experience making and designing "TV" cameras to be used by professionals. Canon is just stepping into the professional "TV/Cine" camera arena. There are pluses and minuses to each design(Sony and Canon). Neither is perfect. Your shooting style is a huge factor when it comes to your preference of camera designs. I know a few guys who love the C300 design. They shoot handheld with primes(most of the time) and the built-in (crap) VF. They love the compact, low-profile, "inconspicuousness" of it. There is a lot to be said for that, but I'm still an "ENG" form factor guy and I would much prefer the F5/55 body with it's native ENG style VF and ability to be shoulder mounted without adding 15+ pounds of extra "stuff" to make it work like that. By the time I rig my C300 up for shoulder mounting, it weighs at least as much as my VariCam, but without anywhere near the usability(and I don't just mean the ergonomics of it, there are many technical things they dropped the ball on, too).

The C300 may be aimed at professionals and carries a price tag to match, BUT it still screams, in many ways, that it is a consumer product, one only needs to look at the power input and the ext. power supply to have that confirmed. Or at the very least that the designers don't truly know what-all professionals NEED in a camera. Only ONE SDI out?(I couldn't care less about HDMI. A non-locking, fragile video connector has no place on a professional camera when they could have put another SDI in it's place) TC IN or OUT, not both at the same time? Non-locking DC Power IN? Seriously Canon? And let's not forget my personal favorite, the STUPID, STUPID, STUPID "Pod" with the XLR inputs. I could almost forgive the other things if it weren't for the "Pod".

If I did nothing BUT sit-downs or true cine-style shooting, it wouldn't be as big of a deal, but lets face, the vast majority of us are being asked to use these style cameras in an ENG type environment where we don't have the luxury of a lot of time and an A/C (or two). I'm not saying that shooting with the C300 is impossible, because it's not, but the design is definitely not why people are flocking to it.
 
Flaca Productions

Flaca Productions

Well-known member
Run - again...could NOT have said it better.
I have a good friend who recently added a C300 to his F800 and F3.
Took the C300 back after a week and got an F5 instead. Hated the form factor - but I also work with 3 guys I really respect and they all have C300s. (4 of em between the 3 guys.)
so....everything is relative.
 
R

Robin

Well-known member
Yeah sorry guys.. its all my own personal thing.. Ive just never had to battle with a camera as I have the C300.. to the probably ridiculous point now.. that I do and have done ,turned down work where this camera is stipulated.. to save me a lot of angst and I know the work I produce frankly won't be as good as I can do.. its a no win situation..
To those can make it work, I tip my hat.. I don't know how you do.. but all power to you !
 
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Starman

Well-known member
what about just spending 6K or under (since I already have a 2/3" lens) and buying a used HDCAM or HDX900? then, I would have a tapeless P2 and tape camera for people who want tape, and waiting until the next better generation of C300? Or maybe this is a bad idea. I dunno how much longer the HDX900 would last. My colleagues F900 mostly just sits in his garage now.
 
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Starman

Well-known member
LOL, Sony only makes the F900R still, and stopped making the HDW730 and HDW650 HDCAM cameras. I am asking because some networks still take HDCAM tapes and a lot of TV trucks have the decks. Also, there are some HDCAM cameras up for sale with HD-SDI out that are a good deal, and much cheaper than getting a C300. But, most freelancers I have seen still using tape have HDX900's. I didn't know Panasonic stopped making tape. Seems like everyone has jumped on the tapeless bandwagon. I think that this is a dying horse.
 
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Starman

Well-known member
Okay, I have decided that I am going to use the money from the Varicam to buy a used HDX900, and save up the rest of the profit towards a Sony F5. Don't really like the C300 form factor myself.
 
R

Robin

Well-known member
I wouldn't be buying into tape anything these days.. unless it was really cheap and I had some definite work lined up for it. Pana doesn't make any tape cameras anymore so not in their interest to make tape.. they want you to buy a new camera !.. but some third party are still making tape .. maxwell .. etc
 
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