Old Photogs

[<Young Jedi>]

Why are old photogs so lazy? You'd think at least they would compensate by passing along all that experience and knowledge. Don't get me wrong, there are some that take us under their wing. I'm talking about the dusty-tripod types that roll their eyes at the newbies when they get excited, or bitch when things change their lunch plans.

 

[<Green and Mean>]

Young Jedi is RIGHT! We've got a handful of those guys, and all they do is huff and puff if they even have to get a WEATHER SHOT! It's like they think they've paid their dues and can get paid to do nothing. And they are paid VERY well after being at the station so long. In fact, if you try to learn something and ask one of them a question, he'll just go over your head with technical terms from back in the day like "F-Stop"! I mean, c'mon, what the hell is that? Just give me advice; it would be a productive use of your time just sitting there.

 

[<Old Shooter>]

Green and Mean,
I hope you are kidding when you start ranting t about things like f stop. There are some old AND new shooters who pull less than their weight in a shop but when the (CCD)chip is removed from you shoulder you may find that the old shooters can teach you a hell of a lot.
One problem that I have with some of the young photogs we get is that they have no idea concerning the craft of photography but are lean more toward button pushers and camera pointers. 15 years ago a photog probably spent some time in a studio and some time in production before being turned loose on the news department. Cameras now are basically bulletproof (can't burn a tube or shoot video so hot it creeps into your audio). Starting shooters are also willing to work for slave wages. Many times the knowledge level of most first time photojournalists is less than it was in the past.
I think that you will find that most photogs that remember 3/4 still pull their weight and have probably produce some of the best work in the shop.
If they have decided to stay and make a home out of a mid market they can also teach you about things like ethics, copassion, community involvement and institutional memory.
Finally, f stop is the iris setting on your lens. It not only adjusts the amount of light reaching the imaging sensor but changes controls your depth of field.

 

[tarzan]

We're not all lazy. I'm almost 40, so I'm getting up there, but I still use a tripod and instinctively try to frame the best composition. Maybe it's just ingrained in my soul. Can't stand the idea of people saying bad things about my video, so I try to shoot good. Some older photogs, though, just get burned out, and don't care anymore, and others, well, they were just never all that good to begin with.

Sometimes it's just plain old politics. If he's a union photog with lots of seniority, it may be very difficult to oust the guy. In other cases, it may not be a union shop at all, but the photog might just be really tight with the GM or someone at corporate.

I'm not sure what my point is, I'm rambling, I'll just shut up now...

 

[<Geezer>]

Originally posted by <Young Jedi>:
Why are old photogs so lazy? You'd think at least they would compensate by passing along all that experience and knowledge. Don't get me wrong, there are some that take us under their wing. I'm talking about the dusty-tripod types that roll their eyes at the newbies when they get excited, or bitch when things change their lunch plans.

A rather broad brush wouldn't you say? I give you about two years when you're a "vet" and you'll be spouting all of YOUR experience on a newbie and I guarantee it'll sound exactly the same as you are hearing now.

There is a difference between being lazy, and not taking this business, (and many of the people in it) so seriously and all of its breathless, fanitical self-importance. Do I do my job? You bet. I still can, and do, run with the best of them, whatever their age. Do I jump through the roof just because an intern-turned-assignment-editor hears their first fire dispatch? No. Sorry, I don't say "how high."

Do I take crap from people who don't have a clue how do to my job? Nope. Is that considered lazy? Sure, by some. But I promise you, most of those same people will tell you they learn as much about this business from us crusty old photogs as anyone else in the newsroom. And in a few years, that'll be you.

There is some validity in the fact that most older guys came up through production departments (back when all TV stations had them.) That's where we learned composition, lighting, and all of the fundamentals we needed before we hit the streets. Then we were given TWO mags of film to shoot all of your assignments on for a day. About 800 feet, equivilent to about ONE 20 minute beta tape. Use any more than that and you'd better have a damn good reason. You HAD to know what you were doing, shoot conservatively and understand the fundemental mechanics of photography. F-Stop, 85B filters, tungsten vs. daylight. Do today's photogs even know the origin of the term "b-roll?"

Crusty? Some days. Dusty? Often, especially after being in the field all day. Lazy? Hmmm better not say that to my face, or you might see how fast I can move.

 

[jbone]

Crusty old photogs huh....i am not a crusty but i am getting up there in age but i do take the time to help out the other photogs in my shop...out ND is the oldest crusty i know he did shoot the film and he said that the photogs now dont have a clue what it really means to go and shoot a real piece...i some what understand what he means and that we do have it easy...i take this job to serious and have way to much pride to let someone tell me that i am lazy or i dont help others with there craft...and yeah crusty yeah dusty right..lazy....i triple dog dare ya to say that to my face.......yeah i freaking love this saying!!!!!!

one more thing....i wish i had one of those crusty old photogs in my shop i know that i could learn alot from someone who understands the CRAFT!!!!!

 

[Some Guy in LA]

Original a fake post? If it's not...

Perhaps he doesn't know the pros I know...who give a thousand per cent EVERY day on every story...and do it with heart, accuracy, style, and class.
Young Jedi perhaps needs to learn from the masters...I do...and have been at it since '78.
When you quit learning, you die. See you in Chicago, Skywalker.

LR

 

[Some Guy in LA]

Original a fake post? If it's not...

Perhaps he doesn't know the pros I know...who give a thousand per cent EVERY day on every story...and do it with heart, accuracy, style, and class.
Young Jedi perhaps needs to learn from the masters...I do...and have been at it since '78.
When you quit learning, you die. See you in Chicago, Skywalker.

LR

 

[MrZero]

Some of the more veteran guys here at our station (not photogs...production shooters) seem like that to my new hires. I remember when they were like that with me, and thankfully I have been here long enough for them to open up and share some genuine insight. The general feeling that I get from them is that they feel like most new shooters these days don't take things as seriously as they did. Which, they're right. My suggestion is, if you *are* serious, go grab a photography textbook and learn a bit about the mechanics of lenses, cameras, and lighting concepts. This will help you understand their lingo and also help you visualize the things they tell you. And, if nothing else, it will help you figure this out on your own...which always impresses people who know something about this craft.

Zero

 

[<still standing>]

Ya know I was that young guy once. Eager and ready to run on anything, not understanding why nobody put a spark under the old guys. But I learned at an early enough stage. "Skate your lane" you can only worrry about what you are doing. If you bitch and moan about what you are doing and what the other photogs are not, you are not going to last. I am a 20 year vet, reporters want to go on a story with me. They request me all of the time. Because I think and discuss the story like I care what I am doing. Feel good about your job well one. Forget the other photogs worry about yourself. Go home at the end of the day knowing you did a job. That is all end of story....

 

[<Nematode>]

This is a story worth repeating.
A young bull and an old bull are standing on a hill looking down on a pasture filled with cute young cows.
The youngster paws the ground, snorts and says "see that cute little guernsey down by the tree? I think I'm gonna run down there and have my way with her."
The old bull looks at him and says "I got a better idea sonny, let's WALK down and have our way with them all."
I started out shooting with a filmo and back then they were scraping dinosaur crap off the parking lot. I'm happy to share everything I know with the newbies I work with, provided they can catch me.

 

[PhotogFromFL]

you know what's funny...we have old photogs in our shop, but they have less experience than me. they are old cronies who had careers before and decided they wanted to go to tech school and join the biz. only problem is they won't listen or apply anything you tell them.
in the immortal words of Austin Powers:"Why won't you die."

 

[<f35>]

I like to think that I have just earned my title as a vet shooter, after 2 years of not really knowing which end was up, I learned from my chief. I would go out and shoot 20 min of tape for a vo/sot, and now I am down to half that. My chief has tought me alot, and he has been doing this longer that I have been alive. At the end of a week he would go over my raw tapes with me and ask me why I shot something and then would explain why it was or wasn't a good choice. I value the input of crusty old vets. As for lazy I don't think they're lazy, I just think that they are efficient. Some reporters in the news room say that all the vet photogs are lazy, just cuz we/they don't overshoot everything.

Well, thats my 2 cents

 

[<Young Jedi>]

I'm beginning to see the difference here. There are the "Been there, done that" shooters, the "Chief Photog means I take care of gear and schedules" guys, and the "my 'Millenium Clock' now counts the days to retirement" crowd. I think the Obi-wan photogs need to go on tour. Those guys left our newsroom when Kodak made Beta tapes.

 

[<in a league far far away>]

Young Jedi, perhaps you need to look in the mirror and see how little you really know about this business. As Yoda would say "you learn not what you see, young master". You not see what maturity brings with life, young "master"

Take a waltz over to the "freelance" section of this board and see how far you have to go before you can lump the "oldsters" as having being past by, by you. Those guys are on the cutting edge of this biz and probably have 20 to 30 years of experience on you.

Open your eyes before you condemn a group.
-- Yoda

 

[<chippy>]

More words for the "Young Jedi"

 

[<DARK SIDE>]

all i see is excuses.
take your tripod out the bubble wrap.
i know you guys are mad cause your not cutting film and i know you are scared of the non-linear
editor.
its the older guys video that makes the news cast
suck! man everything is on the shoulder. then you
guys are saying i walked 500 miles threw snow and rain ...sniff sniff....i am your worst nightmare.
like arnold says "i must break you!"
thank god i wasnt working in news when they had 3/4!! i must thank the lorrrrrrrrrd!!!! round here we call this a lil twenty twen tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen!
come on old wise ones teach us! never mind to late dont get up. cross over young jedi. it will never change.

 

[<The shooter>]

You forgot one thing. Unions. They make older photogs even more lazy.

 

[<another>]

Originally posted by <The shooter>:
You forgot one thing. Unions. They make older photogs even more lazy.

another generalization of a group without basis in fact.

No matter how much you'd like to point the finger at them, laziness is not the fault of the unions. It is management's lack of enforcement of the collective bargaining agreement. I would like to see one clause in any contract that promotes laziness.
Inept workers are not protected by the contract. They are subject to discipline for misdeeds and subpar performance just like anyone else in the station. Some may not like the lengthy greivence and arbitration process, but at least it provides a method of due process to both sides of a dispute, not leaving dismissals and discipline up to the arbitrary mere whims of any manager's temperment.

If someone is being what you call "lazy" and derilict in their job performance then why don't you bring this to the attention of management in your shop instead of whining that its the union's fault. Because management is lazy too if they don't monitor and correct performance in your shop.

 

[<circle seven>]

I studied photography first, then worked as a portrait photog... then studied electronics and got a first class license to work in a major market as an audio tech. You had to work audio before you could shoot.. I worked with film shooters, many of whom had worked on major motion pictures, transitioning to electronic news gathering. I've always been grateful for their mentoring.

I won't go into stories, but many national and international events have been my assignments. I'm always shocked by the lack of understanding and knowledge by people with whom I've crossed paths wanting to be camera operators in recent months.

There's a lot to learn. Don't judge until you've worn the shoes and walked the path.