Newbie Advice

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Chicago Dog

Well-known member
Two questions:

1. Looking back on your starting days as a freelancer, is there anything you'd do differently as far as your business practices go? Things you learned the hard way?

From what I've found so far, freelance work is difficult to come by at first because it's not really something you can be "trained" in, so-to-speak. Lots and lots of networking?

2. How important is it to be near a market you'd like to eventually settle in (as in, a hometown you're looking to get back to)?

I probably already know the answer to the second question. However, replies to other questions in the b-roll boards have surprised me before, so I thought I'd ask.
:)
 

dhart

Well-known member
If I were looking to relocate (not necessarily your hometown)and break in to the freelance biz I would call the national crew booking agencies and ask them where they have the most trouble booking good crews and move there. Quickest way into the business is to do a good job and a fairly steady flow of work should follow. While working for the agencies you should have enough cashflow to slowly introduce yourself to the local production community. Just don't relocate to West Michigan, we've got good crews a plenty here :D
 

Lensmith

Member
Things I learned the hard way?

Don't accept any job if you have a single doubt about the client paying on time...or ever.

Expect to work for three to five years as a freelancer before you feel really comfortable with the lifestyle. Any business takes that long to succeed or survive. Many fail in those first years. Freelancing is the same way. Be ready for the long haul and don't be surprised if one or two years down the road you are still struggling. Think long term and prepare for the slow times.

You don't mention anything in your post about what "life responsibilities" you might have. Married? Kids? Lots of student loans to pay off? If you have a significant other make sure they are fully aware of how hard it's going to be those first years.

Be sure your sales and bill collecting skills are up to snuff. Shooting video is a very small part of being successful. You need to go after clients and then stay on top of your billing. Do all the billing for work as soon as possible and then set aside one day a week to follow up on all of your expenses and accounting. Keep good records! Again, there is so much more to this job than just shooting. Be ready for it and prepare. Have a good lawyer. Have a good computer program to keep track of your business expenses.

Most important of all...keep your overhead as low as possible. Don't buy ANYTHING unless you really need it.
 

Chicago Dog

Well-known member
Originally posted by dhart:
If I were looking to relocate (not necessarily your hometown)and break in to the freelance biz I would call the national crew booking agencies and ask them where they have the most trouble booking good crews and move there.
Is there a list of booking agencies I can access, or are there a few you might be able to recommend?
 

Chicago Dog

Well-known member
Originally posted by Lensmith:
Expect to work for three to five years as a freelancer before you feel really comfortable with the lifestyle. Any business takes that long to succeed or survive. Many fail in those first years. Freelancing is the same way. Be ready for the long haul and don't be surprised if one or two years down the road you are still struggling. Think long term and prepare for the slow times.
Yeah, I'm a little worried about this. I have no doubt that I'll be able to take care of myself as far as wise spending. I'm more concerned, however, about the long stretches of no work between jobs.

A few of my relatives have their own contracting businesses which, I think, closely relate (masonry, et al). They've had tough times every now-and-then. I've been getting a few pointers from other shooters as well. They agree that keeping a full-time job is a wise idea until you get a few solid clients.

Originally posted by Lensmith:
You don't mention anything in your post about what "life responsibilities" you might have. Married? Kids? Lots of student loans to pay off? If you have a significant other make sure they are fully aware of how hard it's going to be those first years.
Good point. The only thing I have to worry about right now are student loans. I thought it would probably be best to start getting into freelance work now so when the family-time comes, I'll be a little bit more prepared. Right now, I've only got me to think about.

Originally posted by Lensmith:
Be sure your sales and bill collecting skills are up to snuff. Shooting video is a very small part of being successful. You need to go after clients and then stay on top of your billing. Do all the billing for work as soon as possible and then set aside one day a week to follow up on all of your expenses and accounting. Keep good records! Again, there is so much more to this job than just shooting. Be ready for it and prepare. Have a good lawyer. Have a good computer program to keep track of your business expenses.
Strange as it sounds, I like doing billing work. Not because I'm interested in crunching numbers, but I like knowing where everything is coming from and where everything is going. Peace of mind, really.
 

ransom

Member
Cash flow is going to take on a whole new meaning for you.

No more regular checks. And when they do come it will be a couple of months after you did the work. Don't kid yourself. The days of getting paid in 30 days are over. It sucks but it's reality.

You are making a big mistake elsewhere too. You think you can hold a full time job and slowly ease your way into freelance. You know what's going to happen? Nothing. You'll always be too afraid to go all the way until you make the commitment to freelance.

The old saying "$hit or get off the pot" fit your situation. Either go freelance or stay with your full time job. Being afraid to go all the way indicates you don't have the confidence in your own skills to be freelance. Freelance means being able to say YES at any time of the day to go on a job. Having a full time job means you can't leave for freelance work when it's available. You'll miss good jobs. You'll say NO to jobs and the people WITH the jobs will remember that. That means THEY will not call you again. At least you won't be their first call anymore. They don't want to play games. They want someone willing to work NOW when THEY want to work. Your halfway plan of slowly going freelance means your fulltime job will suffer and your freelance dreams will never come true.

Even after you get paid a couple of months down the road you have to keep that cash flow machine rolling. Maybe a year down the road you'll be thinking you're IN! Then it happens. It always happens. One, maybe two months without work. You're eating into your cash pad. Screwing up your cash flow. You freak out. You wonder how you'll pay your bills. That's when it's gut check time friend. Are you going to quit then? Or are you going to beat the odds? Have enough to hold yourself over so you don't end up in bankrupt and a joke of a credit rating?

Some of the guys above talked about it. You need to take it to heart. Have your act together when it comes to money. Know where it is. Know how to collect it. Know how to cover your @ss when you get screwed by a client. You WILL get screwed sometime, somewhere. No one escapes it. Every business in the world has bums who don't pay. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and take the hit. Be ready for it! Have your head together enough to last out the down time, the problems. It is not easy but it can be done. It can NOT be done by somebody too afraid to leave their regular paycheck thinking they can play it safe. Playing it safe means failure.

Last tough love advice. Be in a place that has work. That means larger markets or out of the way places that generate work but have no freelancers. Where are you? Chicago? Not bad but you already have LOTS of established freelancers in place with great camera packages. Can you offer the same? Why should someone hire you instead of them? Because you are cheaper? Because you will do it for free or undercut others to get a job even if it does't cover your financial needs? Freelancers like that come and go. Yes, they always GO. That's how a lot of us get good deals on used gear because someone can't make their payments and have to sell their gear cheap since they are forced out of the business.

Trust. That's what those current freelancers, your competition, have built up with clients. You have no record. You have no reputation among those who do the hiring. You have to PROVE yourself and that doesn't happen fast. It also doesn't happen while you are holding a full time job.

Where do you want to live? Chicago? It can happen. LA, New York, Dallas, Denver, Miami, the East Coast, all have work available but, again you need to be there AND available to work whenever they want you to.

Listen, this is good advice you're getting. I'm a little surprised by how many have taken time to answer your post. Why should other freelancers help you? Why should they tell you how to get started and maybe take work away from them in the future? Don't expect a big welcome into the freelance club. It's sink or swim time friend. Can you swim? Do it or be happy on the beach with your full time job and don't waste peoples time. Not just freelancers but the time potential client have. They aren't there to work around YOUR work schedule. If you can't do the job there are plenty more who CAN!

Don't boo hoo on me now. Maybe you can do it but the odds are against you. Not because I'm trying to cut you down. Most small business' fail anyway. ANY business! Freelancing is just that. A business so see it for what it is. No guarantees. No weekly paycheck. No company health care. Have you even figured out how much it costs for you to freelance and still have health coverage or are you thinking you don't need it? I thought so :D
 

AKinDC

Well-known member
Originally posted by ransom:

You are making a big mistake elsewhere too. You think you can hold a full time job and slowly ease your way into freelance. You know what's going to happen? Nothing. You'll always be too afraid to go all the way until you make the commitment to freelance.
I disagree with this statement, as this is exactly how I got into freelancing. I freelanced on the side of my regular job until I had built up a handful of contacts. Then I quit my full-time job, confident that I could find enough work to pay the bills. Would I have been more motivated to find clients if I had quit my job when I first decided to freelance? Sure. Would I have been able to pay my bills for the first few months? Probably not. It's a reasonable way to pursue freelancing.
 

Chicago Dog

Well-known member
Originally posted by AKinDC:
quote: Originally posted by ransom:

You are making a big mistake elsewhere too. You think you can hold a full time job and slowly ease your way into freelance. You know what's going to happen? Nothing. You'll always be too afraid to go all the way until you make the commitment to freelance.
I disagree with this statement, as this is exactly how I got into freelancing.
That's how the majority of people I know got into freelancing, too. I find it kind of humorous that he's operating under the assumption that I'm going into this completely green.

Anyway, from what I understand, DC is a big market for freelance work. Of course, I'm not going to play naive and act like there aren't a ton of vets already in that city. How long have you been there?
 

quicklad

Well-known member
I am not as hard assed as the earlier poster - but I agree with him that to really make it freelancing you need to ditch the fulltime job. All it will do is slow down your path along the road to being a real freelancer (and not a "perma" lancer).

Because you are not well known, most calls you will get will be last minute emergency calls. Those are probably the hardest to take if you have commitments at your full time gig.

I did have a part time jobs - and in each circumstance I explained my career objective to the one hiring me and told them that at times I would need to change my work schedule with very little warning. Even with that - I found myself working so much (at the job - not freelancing) that my own searching for clients suffered.

Having a gig won't keep you from freelancing - it'll just slow down the process. No full time job means you'll have lots of time on your hands for cold calls, meetings, working up resumes and reels etc.

As for why you are getting a response - I can only speak for myself - I would not be a succesful freelancer without early help from others, and without continued referrals from other freelancers. I have people I trust not to steal a client, but also to do a great job in my name when I can't do the gig.

So jump on board - once your in it'll be hard (if not impossible) to go back.

Eric
 

Icarus112277

Well-known member
It is very hard to get into freelancing when you have a full time position.

It will be harder for you to get out of work at the last second to take those freelance gigs, when you do get the calls. And once you limit your availability you will move to the botom of the list.

I currently have a full time thing and freelance on the side, but its taken a few years to to build up my client list to make this possible.

I also have student loans, which is why I have the full time job. Missing a loan payment is not a smart thing to do. The freelance market is tough.

Most importantly make sure when you get the call, mke sure you're on time, and that your work is up to snuff. Don't open your mouth when you shouldn't, and send your invoices out promptly.
 

FOCUZ

Well-known member
How are you at sound? If you are not up to par learn it. This is the best way to get into the freelance world.

There are a lot freelance guys out there who started out with one cam package and now own two, three, or four. They are little production houses. Find these guys on the tech websites (Mandy, Maslow Media, Production Hub) and give them a call. They most likely will not put you on camera until they know you, but they might use you for sound. They won't hire you if you only call once or twice so be persistant (Not annoying). Working for these guys will help build your resume and give you credibility for when you call clients yourself.

A posting earlier mentioned calling the booking agencies. If you are nice they might tell you who they use in whatever market you are in...Crew Connection, Assignment Desk, Crews Control, The Crew Company, 1-800 TV Crews.

Last bit of advice, don't buy gear until you have the clients. If a client calls and wants you with gear, rent it until the gear work is consistent enough to warrant a purchase.

Good luck and be glad you are not in a cubicle.
 

Chicago Dog

Well-known member
Originally posted by ransom:
quote: Originally posted by Chicago Dog:
quote: Originally posted by ransom:
Don't boo hoo on me now.
Why should I? You're the one who just typed up a page-and-a-half of assumptions.
;)
That's the spirit! So what assumptions about you were wrong? None I bet! :D
My, my! I don't think you can get any closer to bitterness without actually writing the word.

Listen, your responses have proven the big size of your johnson, and we're all very happy for you. Now, if you've got some actual, bona-fide advice, great. Otherwise, run along.
 

ransom

Member
Originally posted by Chicago Dog:
My, my! I don't think you can get any closer to bitterness without actually writing the word.

Listen, your responses have proven the big size of your johnson, and we're all very happy for you. Now, if you've got some actual, bona-fide advice, great. Otherwise, run along.
No, no no! I'm not bitter at all. Relax! This isn't about Johnsons. This is about what it takes to make the jump into freelancing. A lot of guys with full time jobs don't think freelancing through. My tough love advice wasn't to blow my own horn or make you feel small. It was to open your eyes to the total picture. That includes the tough decisions YOU need to make to get into freelancing. You keep answering but you don't tell me how I was wrong about my earlier assumptions about you. That leads me to believe I struck a nerve too close to the truth. I made the same mistakes when I started. I learned the hard way. You asked for advice about what was learned the hard way. I told you! Now you have hurt feelings because I must not have been nice and sweat enough to you. Come on guy! Get a thicker skin. Don't be so quick to be offended. This is business. Look at my answers to the question you asked. They were right on! Either you want real advice or you don't. Which is it??? My whole answer came down to this. Don't sit on your butt waiting for the perfect moment to make the switch. There is NO totally perfect moment. Either do it or stay with your safe, full time job. Make the jump and use the above advice from all of us here to make your switch easier than what the rest of us had to learn the hard way!!!!
 

Chicago Dog

Well-known member
Originally posted by ransom:
You keep answering but you don't tell me how I was wrong about my earlier assumptions about you. That leads me to believe I struck a nerve too close to the truth.
Believe me when I say I'm going to be as truthful as I can about this statement: I don't care what you think you know about me. Therefore, I don't waste the time. I asked for advice, not a bunch of weak rhetoric I heard in my first-year classes in college.

Besides-- I've seen your bio. It doesn't point anywhere. There's no information that you're even a reliable source. It's as vague as the toilet paper I wipe my ass with. These other guys at least have websites to back themselves up. So, why bother taking your very general, so-called "advice" into account? Everyone else that's responded has done so respectfully.
 

Baltimore Shooter

Well-known member
Originally posted by ransom:
Cash flow is going to take on a whole new meaning for you.

No more regular checks. And when they do come it will be a couple of months after you did the work. Don't kid yourself. The days of getting paid in 30 days are over. It sucks but it's reality.
Yep, no more regular pay checks that you can depend on every 2 weeks like with that full time job. But I have to disagree with Ransom on "The days of getting paid in 30 days are over". It's only over if WE accept this policy. If we just roll over and accept it, it will happen. But as someone else said, freelancing is a business and you have to treat it as such. You have to insist on getting paid in 30 days and if they don't, add late charges to the invoice. If you don't pay your mortgage, car payment, credit card payment, etc. on time they add late fees, and we should too. If they want to pay in 45 or 60 or 90 days, tell them "our company policy is net 30" and stick with it. If you accept 45-90 days for payment, you not only hurt yourself, but the other freelancers in this industry too.

Also, have a "location production agreement" that you have clients sign. This agreement is a legally binding document that holds them accountable if they don't want to pay on time (or at all), and your general terms and conditions. If they refuse to sign it, then they probably weren't going to be good clients in the first place and you were probably going to get screwed right frm the start. With regards to first time clients, insist on getting paid at the end of the shoot (put this in the location production agreement too). You don't know how they pay, they could be a "fly-by-nighter". If you rent gear or have something edited at a post house, they make you pay when services are rendered, why shouldn't you? Come to think of it, auto repair shops, veterinarians, and other professionals have this policy too.

Originally posted by ransom:

Why should someone hire you instead of them? Because you are cheaper? Because you will do it for free or undercut others to get a job even if it does't cover your financial needs? Freelancers like that come and go. Yes, they always GO. That's how a lot of us get good deals on used gear because someone can't make their payments and have to sell their gear cheap since they are forced out of the business.
EXACTLY! If you undercut others in this industry, you make it harder for yourself, because you'll find it VERY DIFFICULT to raise your rates to a level where you can make a living. Try asking your landlord to give you cheaper rent, or a real estate agent to give you that house cheaper, or a lower proice on that used car at Carmax, ain't gonna happen. You also hurt other people in this industry when you undercut. That's why still photographers get $2,000 a day for a 1 person crew. We on the other hand have already lowered ourselves to doing a 1 man job (with gear) for $900 or $800 or $700 for a full day. Undercutting only hurts us all and you'll go out of business in a hurry because your other living expenses haven't come down. You'll be working harder at lower rates just to tread water financially.

I have some other thoughts at a post I made in December at this link - http://b-roll.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000368

Goog luck to you and feel free to ask any more questions you may have.
 

ransom

Member
Originally posted by Chicago Dog:
Besides-- I've seen your bio. It doesn't point anywhere. There's no information that you're even a reliable source. It's as vague as the toilet paper I wipe my ass with. These other guys at least have websites to back themselves up
And your website? No prob kid. Good luck with your future dreams. I'm not worried about what you think either. You asked. I answered. You got offended. That says a lot right there.

To recap my original post (wasted on you)

1. Learn about cash flow.

2. Trying to keep your full time job while starting freelance doesn't usually work.

3. Prepare for months you have no work and save a cash pad.

4. Freelance is not just shooting pretty pictures. Freelance means knowing how to run a business. You are also the bill collector and salesman.

5. Base your business in a region that has a need for your services. You may have to move.

6. Set your rates to cover your expenses. Undercutting others just to get work leads to failure.

7. Have a complete plan which includes making enough money to pay bills and cover health insurance needs.

Wow! Really stupid advice on my part! What a waste of time. You already covered this in your Jr. College jerkweed 101 course. I bet you got an A+ :D

Feel free to ignore me in the future. I'll be happy to do the same. Buh bye! ;)
 

Chicago Dog

Well-known member
Originally posted by ransom:
Feel free to ignore me in the future. I'll be happy to do the same. Buh bye!
Sounds good to me! I would've loved to have taken this to private message. However, I honestly think you keep the name "ransom" around in place of another screen name. So, you've disabled everything. Doesn't surprise me.

I'd say "thank you for the advice," but since everyone else already beat you to it (and in a much more professional manner), I won't. Run along!

Haw-haw!

(bait.)
:rolleyes:
 
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