A civil NPPA thread?

[micaelb]

I'm hoping this will be constructive. Earlier this month I was elected Vice President of the NPPA and part of what I want to do is make membership more attractive to people who work in TV.

So, what would you like to see, what would help bring you into the organization, what would you like to see less of?

Keep in mind that almost 80% of the 6500 members are still photographers. That means over 1000 members work in TV. Besides contests what can we do for them?

There will always be a lot of stuff aimed at the interests of still photographers as long as the numbers are like that. But more of those members are shooting video all the time.

One of the main missions of the NPPA is education. With that in mind what kind of affordable local program would you like to see? Would you go to a single day event if it was cheap and within driving distance? Would you like to learn, like a lighting or editing workshop, or be inspired by watching great stories and being able to ask the photog who shot it how they did it, or both?

Many of the people who post here lament the lack of quality they see in one-man-band or MMJ stories. That is one of the places the NPPA can help. There is already a workshop, the Multimedia Immersion that was a great track record and is always sold out. Would expansion of that kind of workshop be helpful?

Any and all ideas are welcome.

 

[ShootingStacks]

We need to lower costs for tv members, plain and simple!

 

[cameragod]

Mike over the years there have been a lot of civil NPPA threads with a lot of constructive suggestions and yet the NPPA response is to always put blame back on anyone who says anything they don't want to hear.
Even the way you start this thread "A civil NPPA thread" seems like an attempt to make any comment that isn't totally pro NPPA sound petty and mean spirited.
I have to wonder do you really want to hear constructive criticism or just feel better about yourself for appearing to reach out?

 

[micaelb]

Stephen, that's not what I intended the title to mean at all. I'm sorry it came off that way. Probably by posting in this part of the forum a lot of the name-calling that sometimes happens won't happen. I do want feedback and I am thick-skinned enough to take criticism. What I would like to see in this thread, if it's possible, are some positive ideas in addition to criticism.

I think what happens sometimes is there will be inaccurate criticism and I will try to correct that. I imagine that can come off as defensive and maybe it is. The NPPA, in my opinion, is a good organization trying to get better. One of those things is about cost and the idea that it keeps going up. I know $110 isn't cheap but the cost of a membership hasn't changed since 2006.

I also know that there are smart people posting on this site and whether they are a member or not I would like to hear their ideas.

Can the price be lowered? That is pretty much out of the question. So what are some other ways for the NPPA to make some money to keep the cost where it is? What are some other benefits that will make a membership worth $110?

 

[cyndygreen1]

Mike...
I've been seeing a trend over the past ten years by professional news photo organizations towards apparently catering to the still crowd. Part of this is understandable..their sheer numbers. But I also organized workshops in the early 2000s for SFBAPPA (Willie Kee Video Bootcamp) for interested college students and working press. The first few were well attended by the broadcast side...and then one year it was 20+ still photographers. All with the notion that (a) they wanted to learn video and (b) no one could do it since there was no one out there who really understood it. It was as if the concept of motion and sound were revolutionary and no one had ever done it before. It was exciting over the next few years to see video take fire at newspapers...but BAPPA seemed to cater more and more to them and less and less to TV news folk. Part of this gets into perceptions and the differences in the work done by the two types of photogs. (See a blog posting I did on this...http://cyndygreen.wordpress.com/2007/05/07/stagnant-membership/) I think what you are doing by reaching out is critical at this time...the abyss is growing and media need to pull together now more than ever.
And a final aside...I wish that b-roll would require all comments on all threads be tied with a real name and identity...I am not afraid to state my opinion and link it to my name and never have been. I do not enjoy some of the sniping going on here by folks who hide behind akas.

 

[ShootingStacks]

You have to be a member to enter our quarterly contest...you have to be member to get discount price on workshops....the only part of the NPPA that is free is the BOY. I think we need to have contest for members and non-members. The contest for non-members is simple a critique based contest....no 1st 2nd or 3rd places. Kinda like the Developmental league for young shooters. Many times, photogs give up after a few years of trying to place and then write off the NPPA. We need to keep those people interested. Just a crazy thought!

 

[Brock Samson]

Personally I think it may be because of perception – by the employer, the employee, and the public – about the role of the visual journalist as part of the news operation.

This may be because (opinion again) they work with a reporter who is seen (first) as a TV star and (second) as a reporter. The amount of equipment traditionally carried by TV photogs turns them into living breathing pack mules. They set up live shots and run microwave trucks. So there they are: the perception is subservient, technician, pack mule.

This lack of identiy has made television photographers an almost invisible class. While they are what sets television news apart from print and radio, they are not given recognition as individuals…

-Quote from Cyndy Green's blog

That, Miss Cyndy, is a perfectly put description of my emotions towards the plight of the TV News Shooter. Of course, it is vastly more eloquent than anything I could have cussed and stammered on about it. I always had the feeling that the way the still guys were looking at me was the same as the way that the guy running the backhoe looks at the guy shoveling dirt by hand... (Let's hear it for bad analogies!)

 

[cyndygreen1]

Thanks Brock...it wasn't easy writing that. I know a lot of TV shooters are brilliant and extremely creative. Most still photogs could sit at their knees and learn a world of information on both the tech and aesthetic sides...but all a some of them seem to do is claim video as their own invention. Sometimes I think we live so much inside our own little fantasy worlds that we don't see ourselves as others do. We KNOW who we are...but unless the message is put out, everyone else just judges what they see.

 

[Latin Lens]

I think its been debated here before....but why not create two different divisions within the NPPA? One for still, one for video. Perhaps then you can relook at budgets and whatnot and maybe if the video side can be reduced...either A) more membership would increase or B) more volunteerism at a lower membership due. (RETHORICAL QUESTION) Am I getting my money's worth at $110? Probably not...but at $55 or $50 maybe...and getting more info based on MY photography field. So I am sure its more complicated than this but something needs to be done. An innovate approach needs to rule here because its so far gone that the only thing that could make it better would be something radical AND rational. Good luck Mike....and yes, if a traveling video seminar were within a couple hours drive I would serious look into attending.

 

[satop]

I don't want to bash the NPPA, I learned a lot from them over the years.

I used to be a member of the NPPA, I quit for many of the reasons mentioned. What took me over the top, was when I attended one of the short courses a few years ago, was the seperation of video and stills. there were three times the amount of workshops for still members as there were for video. But, so many of the still classes focused on doing video. why not combine those? Go to the current Northern Short Class web page....23 workshops for the still attendes, 6 for TV! Does that seem like I am getting my moneies worth?

No longer are we TV people and Newspaper people. TV web sites have still pictures, I shoot some of them at my station. While video is on almost every web site everywhere.

Why is the NPPA still run as 2 different sides of one organization? Everyone does both in the real world, if the NPPA reflected that more, I would consider re-joining, and I know there would be others also.

 

[micaelb]

Cyndy, I love that blog post! Thanks for sharing that.

Leighton, crazy as it sounds that isn't a bad idea. What do you think the effect would be on the current quarterly contest? And, could the quarterly contest go online so we can stop burning DVDs and stop paying shipping? We could still have designated judges for each part of the contest, I do like that part of the contest.

Danny, I love me a bad analogy.

Ozkar and Brian, you guys are a perfect example of the split personality of the NPPA now. I think we are less divided than ever but still more divided than we need to be. The reality is there are a lot more members who use still cameras primarily but more are shooting video all the time.

Thanks for the contributions so far. I'm listening.

 

[adam]

Mike,

Thanks for your work. There are several issues, and the one clearest on b-roll is the issue of trust in the organization. It might do well to make the NPPA budget public (maybe it is, but sem-hidden). It could be risky but it's a thought.

Main issues;

1. There is a gold rush for video knowledge. Who is teaching the still guys to shoot video? Still guys who have learned to shoot video. There is a veiled disrespect to videographers in that the NPPA isn't begging the Jensesn's, Scholls and Durlachs of the world to teach the print gang. That should be job number one, get the great video folks in front of the still folks. I constantly see "lessons learned" type features in News Photographer about still shooters who are writing to teach the readers. It doesn't make sense. Let's put the old caste system aside and accept that it's a world best understood by videographers and the still photogs need to accept the reality that the broadcast method is (in good situations) tried and true to large extent. Ken Burns uses tons of stills in his films because they didn't shoot film back in the day, not because it's the most effective technique, for example. I say all of that with a good deal of respect to my still friends who are adapting their craft. I think they'd agree and once they've got the skill set their previous knowledge will make them great.

Every region has great shooters, put them to work teaching. We were really fortunate in region 11 to have TJ Mullinax help us put together a really great conference. 3 or 4 people and a station willing to help made a 100 person conference happen. If there was a down side it was that there was too much good stuff, seriously. This would be possible in every region. Forget the traveling program, take the resources and insist that the regions do it themselves. Provide a template some basic training and staff support and it will happen. Take advantage of the grass roots.

Get the online video contests down, this year. Leighton has been incredible and the NPPA needs to ask him how high they need to jump and then do it. There is a serious credibility issue and the NPPA can't claim to be a video organization if they don't have mastery of online video.

Examine sponsorships and utilize aforementioned video to sell advertising.

 

[Latin Lens]

Cyndy, I love that blog post! Thanks for sharing that.

Leighton, crazy as it sounds that isn't a bad idea. What do you think the effect would be on the current quarterly contest? And, could the quarterly contest go online so we can stop burning DVDs and stop paying shipping? We could still have designated judges for each part of the contest, I do like that part of the contest.

Danny, I love me a bad analogy.

Ozkar and Brian, you guys are a perfect example of the split personality of the NPPA now. I think we are less divided than ever but still more divided than we need to be. The reality is there are a lot more members who use still cameras primarily but more are shooting video all the time.

Thanks for the contributions so far. I'm listening.

And I think Mike that the fact the organization should NOT be divided but IS divided is your biggest hurdle and that issue needs to be examined and thoroughly. There really needs to be a reason...and a good reason to gain membership on the video side...the $110 I send now, 80% goes to the still and 20% to the video...my money is not effectively helping me. Thats why a split or some sort of division needs to exist..not because one is better than the other or anything like that...and because we are under the same blanket we can always exchange ideas and seminars...but until the video issues are worked out the numbers and the image of the NPPA will favor the still guys. Like I said before...radical but rational will prevail here.

 

[cyndygreen1]

I think part of what we're looking at is who runs the shop. Still folks have dove into video and are leading the wave at their shops...often head to head with the computer geeks. In reading the yahoo newspaper video group, I see that they are learning about file formats, compression, challenges of posting on the web. In the broadcast shops all to often the photogs shoot and don't get involved in the day to day hassle of getting it up on the web.
TV news photogs need to reshape their image...they are the (to me) gods and goddesses of video. They live and breath it to a point where many can see thru from their hands thru their lenses. But the weight of the reporter drags them down...the whole concept of VJs/OMDs may bring truth to the broadcast industry about where the talent REALLY is.
Think about it - newspaper photogs get a byline for whatever they shoot. TV news photogs? Rarely. In commercial TV I would only get a credit every year or two or more (when I worked for PBS is was nearly daily - they knew who did the work). Broadcast camerafolk are the unsung heros...somehow that needs to change.

 

[AlexLucas]

This argument is as old as the hills...

No offense to my still brethren, but the biggest part of what they do is judge one single image, and determine it's merit... and remove all others.
It's imperative to do that in still work.
If you do that in video work, you don't have anything to use at the end of a one hour shoot.

If you're a still photographer, and you're blind to sequencing, story flow, or the mind numbingly difficult problems of getting those two to dance together, you're going to end up like every still photog in the world, which is watching an entire piece, and judging it on the weakest shot.
"Why did you use that shot?"
"Because he was doing in it at that moment what the whole piece was about."

After years of being told to my face, by stills, that 'when the digital revolution comes' people like me won't have a job because people who can actually compose a shot will have them, I have given up on them. I've been on DSLR forums, hearing the crow of how incredibly awesome still photographers are with video for about two years now.
Even Philip Bloom, the patron saint of DSLR shooters transferring to video and video production, was a Beta shooter for Sky and the BBC for years.

What I am saying is this:
You're going up against a culture of arrogance. Pure and simple.
There is only one true photography, one true master art, and that is STILL PHOTOGRAPHY.
I could never, ever, ever tell a still photographer that my job is more complicated to them. Never. It's almost an impossibility in their minds.
Even when I tell them that I do STILLS and VIDEO, and video is harder by far, on account of working in fixed frame rates and tripods, they cannot allow that to be a solid truth.

I wish I could give you encouragement.
I wish there was a magic statement that would make stills snap out of it and think that video was a legitimate discipline instead of a joke.
You're fighting a culture of arrogance.
Good luck trying to change the minds of those that already have them made up.

 

[redcoat]

I'd like to echo the call for an online video submission system for the NPPA quarterly competitions. Leighton has done an AMAZING job so far with the NPPA TV website; getting results and winning videos online. What Leighton has accomplished is already a major victory and his efforts are to be applauded. Now if we could just take the extra step and make it possible to make video submissions online instead of sending them through the mail.

 

[cyndygreen1]

Hmmm...if the revolution DOES come, and still and broadcast go head to head in multimedia (aka video) who will come out on top as the best storyteller? I've already made up MY mind. (and it ain't print based)

 

[The Thing on The Sticks]

Don't know I have always thought of a package or most other news type work as being basically a photo essay or is that vice versa since I shot video before working as a still photog before going back to video.

One of the things I spoke about in the other thread is that the disproportionate representation seems to stem from the fact that there are a lot of still shooters that are not purely news photographers but news/web/magazine/portrait/ whatever pays the bills where on the video side I have always felt the marketing fell almost completely to staff photogs at local stations, not cable, not freelance, not web.

If you want to end the culture of arrogance why not do more stuff on a regular basis (ie. once a month) at the regional level that includes more people.

 

[canuckcam]

There is only one true photography, one true master art, and that is STILL PHOTOGRAPHY.
I could never, ever, ever tell a still photographer that my job is more complicated to them. Never. It's almost an impossibility in their minds.

That in itself is elitest then. Both are visual mediums, both are difficult in their own right.

As a still shooter, I could complain to the editor that I got the perfect shot, one that tells the entire story in one frame (as it's supposed to,) but the space they've allocated for me entails a crop that just doesn't work for the shot. The reporter/writer complains that they've written their piece already and can't cut it down any further (while others are paid per word.) So dammit I have to crop the picture so it destroys the composition and storytelling or do I pick a second, less worthy photo to run? I had a great photo of a firefighter ascending an aerial into a thick cloud of smoke.. looks like he was going into the twilight zone. That photo would never run in a newspaper because of the lack of contrast when printed.

As a photog (or, 'camera operator' as my official title) I can 'spray' the scene. Unmotivated pans, zooms.. yess!!! Got my 20 seconds for the vo! Then you get to an even with no audio distro box for the 6-person panel the front. Do you... put a stick mic up in the middle and pray that it'll work, or... find the mixer from the 80's, dammit there's only a scratchy RCA out (unbalanced, wrong impedance) or plug into the parallel output from the speaker and use a couple in-line pads (unbalanced, wrong impedance, but strong enough signal for 70ft of audio cable) ... or just drape a lav mic over the speaker? Oh yes, don't forget to white balance, make sure you got a good spot and be discreet because you arrived late.


As a comparison, I was a member of SMPTE.... $325/yr and you could sit in on presentations and observe as standards were being hammered out or $135/yr if you just wanted the magazine and listen to the recordings of the presentations after half a year. If you thought the articles in Broadcast Engineering were snoozes...

 

[adam]

I agree with a vast amount of what Alex is saying but there is a an aspect of still photography that video types don't give still types credit for - focus and patience. I don't think the technical skills translate as well as one might but I think that mental skill set is ideally suited for video. Frankly, most still shooters would make better OMB's than TV reporters. It may be a stretch but I've got some good friends who are still shooters, NPPA and the whole nine, and they really understand telling a story.