Trouble Finding Photogs

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BrandNewChief

Member
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone else out their is having a hard time filling their open positions? I know most of the time everyone complains about the pay, and yes they have a right b/c photog carry a heavy load. But that seems to be the underlying problem everytime someone post something on any page like this??!! I don't make a lot and I didn't get into this business to make a lot of money, I got into it because I love my job!! Am I one of the last remaining photogs who understands money isn't everything and that you do a job like this because you love it, and make "okay" money?!

Anyone with some insight, or who may be having a problem like this?

Thanks
 
yellowbeta

yellowbeta

Well-known member
I usually look "in house" first. That way the person already knows what to expect. You may not get the most perfect candidate but at least you will know what you get.
 
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Currentchief

Well-known member
For the past 18 months or so, it's been quite an ordeal for us to find anyone that's interested in applying.

And once we do find someone to apply, usually they don't meet the requirements posted on the ad.

So here's what I did:

- looked on TVjobs.com at the resume section and wrote those who met the requirement inviting them to send a tape and resume.

- called old acquiantances, co-workers and others spreading the word about our opening(s).

- Actually searched the membership list at b-roll and sent e-mails to those who appeared to meet our requirements.

-called my 1st station (#140) and let them know we were looking.

I only did this when all of the normal employee searching (job postings, etc.) failed. After a couple of weeks, i had more than 12 tapes to pick from.

Good luck!

P.S. I agree with the other posters- do everything that is legal, moral and ethical to get people interested in working for you.
 
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BrandNewChief

Member
Thanks guys for the tips, I've already raided production for shooters & landed 1. I am now looking through all the on-line resumes like you suggested, I just can't figure out why it's so hard to find shooters? Aren't kids graduating from college and looking to get their foot in the door? Who knows, but thank you for the help!
 
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Currentchief

Well-known member
At my station, one reporter opening brings 100+ tapes. The position is more glamorous than a photog job. Photogs have also been on the bottom of the shoe of station management for so long that people can get better treatment swabbin' out the toilets at the Greyhound station.

That, combined with low pay, leads to a smaller pool of applicants for the same number of positions. When a school bus driver with a GED makes at least as much as a photog with a college degree, it's no wonder that they choose to manage a Pizza Hut for $35k/yr rather than work 60 hours a week for $23k.

The solution? The obvious and easy answer is to raise the pay, but that's only one part of the solution (albeit the most important one). Better treatment, some professional consideration (i.e., photog seminars, monetary allowances for higher education, etc.) and a concerted effort on the part of management to recognize and reward the effort and product produced by the news photog as an essential part of the news product.

But, since photogs don't directly produce revenue, most upper managers consider the photog to be a drain on resources and not an essential part of the business strategy of the station. Therefore, the poor treatment of the photog staff endures (some stations see the value of a strong staff, but most miss the point). Until photogs can demonstrate that good photography leads to a better bottom line, photogs will continue to be an afterthought.

good luck.
 
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BrandNewChief

Member
AS much as I agree with you, almost everyone on here understands how the biz works.... meaning while a Chief I'll do everything in my power to up the amount of pay for my photogs. But the bottom line is, I don't control or have much say so in the bottom line of a budget. I make my case, and stand by my photogs, but at the end of the day, I have a boss, my boss has a boss, and their boss has a boss.... But God knows I agree with the previous post. Should we get more money, yes. If you have a degree, yes even more. But at some point you also have to love what you do! You'll know the pay coming in, it's not like we sign you at 40, and cut it in half 3 months later to gut you, the pay scale is known. The hard part is finding those people who want to be photographers, and do it for love & because they make an "ok" living.

Thanks guys for all the help, I've already started working on some of the tips.
 
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vidrock

Active member
Well money is the most obvious solution. But here's a couple things to think about. First, what size market are you in? Sadly, some larger markets have dropped thier standards. While 2 or 3 years ago some places required 5 yrs experience, alot of those places now only ask for 1 or 2. So if I have about a year or a little more, why not go to a bigger mkt and make more money. Of course you have little if any control over what the suits agree to pay your staff, so find ways to entice other than something you can't offer. Such as take home car and gear. Sharing vehicles and especially camera equipment sucks. Probly have to work there a year before you get vacation, but be flexible about letting people off. Shift swaps, alternate holidays. Some places are really cracking down on OT, give it to those who really want it and appreciate it. Just try to find ways around the money issue. We all want more, but sometimes those of us who love our chosen profession can do without a huge ass pay check if there are other amenities. Good luck......
 
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shade

Guest
I totally agree with vidrock, there are also some experienced photogs that maybe want to move to a more attractive area (beach,mountains) and are willing to take a pay cut but not a night/weekend shift. a perk like that would make a difference.
 
jajack71

jajack71

Well-known member
Simply put I love what I do but when the love for what I do comes up short then what do you do? The bottom line is money talks b.s walks. Management knows that. You have producers that sit on their asses and tell us where to go who don't know the difference between a 1 alarm fire and a 5 alarm and they make more than we do. Another thing when I have to move more than 500 miles away for a new job. I want my moving money up front not that reimbursement crap. Remember I'm only making 24 grand a year. Hell I would even accept gas allowence as part of my pay package. We photo's don't stay 23 forever we grow up and want to buy a house a car you know normal stuff that working adults buy. I think that's why many are moving away from news and going to sports and entertainment. You do the math News= Low wages, setting up live shoots and shooting them dealing with reports, producers ND'S, working crappy shifts. I think it's a conspiracy against photog's in general. Rosenblum maybe geting his dream after all. As for me if the money is not right I'm not going to do it and their are many photog's that I spoken with who have the same feelings.
 
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Currentchief

Well-known member
Money, money, money....

Look, I know that money is the thing. OK, so my boss tells me that no more is forthcoming, then what?

It's my job to get photogs here by any means that is truthful, ethical, moral and legal at the rate we pay. That's my job. We're getting away from the original premise of this posting: that is, it's tough to get photogs.

I work in market #66. Not the biggest, not the small time either. My photogs make $30k with OT.
That's what I offer. The sad fact is, in order to make more of a base salary, you shouldn't work at my station. This is not said in anger, but as a fact of my market and station.

I have alot of trouble getting photogs, too. Top management here knows why and offers little but a pat on the back and a cheery "keep tryin'" . We've upped the hourly wage somewhat, but the main fact remains that its very hard to find qualified candidates.

That's the point of this posting- Where to find skilled people to work at the station at the rate offered.

Working holidays, weekends, disasters, nights, cold, hot, mornings, your birthday, overnights and all of the other times is part of the business. A photog with three months in the business would know that and you should, too. There are many corporate video positions open that would provide a 9-5 life.

In short, part of my job description as a chief is to find people to fill spaces. I try to do that with the finest candidates possible at the rate I'm allowed to offer. If I don't do that, they'll find someone who will.
 
jajack71

jajack71

Well-known member
Here's the thing forget the money what are you willing to compromse? You are asking for qualified photog's that's cool but you get what you pay for end of stories. If you want to pay that rate the fresh out of college crowd if for you plain and simple. You will just have to work harder to get them up to speed with shooting Nat packs etc... The benefit is that they are young and unassuming. They are glad to have a job out of college paying them 24k or whatever to say they are in television. I'm not trying to be a smart ass but, it's true. I understand about you fearing for your job but there is give and take in everything. You just can't expect these folks to be camera geniuses. because if you do you will hear "Hey you're only paying me X amount of dollars anyway AND YOU EXPECT ME TO WORK NIGHTS AND HOLDAYS"? I have heard it for myself. You said it yourself If you want more than the base salary you are offering then don't work at your station.If you feel that way and you're the Chief and are the leader of the photog's would you want to work for you? Maybe you will have better luck with applicants in 2006.I hope that you luck turns and you get the kind of photog team that can fit what you have to offer. Remember they maybe young but when they figure out they are not making crap you will have to deal with this situation more frequently than you want to.

Good Luck
 
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Alaska cameradude

Well-known member
As others have said, I think your problem is you are looking for "well qualified, experienced photogs". You will probably have to settle for photogs with potential.

I was a news photog for 8 years, then I realized I could make the same amount of money that a news photog makes, by freelancing, and I work about 1/4 as many hours if that. I think more and more news video guys will start doing sports, corporate, independent video, or start their own video production company as they realize that places other than news will pay more for their skills. I have some friends that are chief photogs and they all have lost people to universities, libraries, the state, production companies, some even to wedding production companies. That's just the way it is. It sucks if you are a chief, and I hope you find some people, but as a former news photog, I understand their side of it too, you gotta do what you gotta do to actually make a real living (ie be able to buy a car, house, support a family etc..)
 
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BrandNewChief

Member
Look this is very simple, I'm not hiring someone in at 40K and then when they get here I'm cutting it to 20. The fact is as a photographer you're going to know what I can pay you, then it's up to you to decide if you can live on that. Think it over, as Chief's we don't make you give us an answer that very second after we spit the number out at you.... we tell you to think it over and see what you think.

And Jack.... come on you CANNOT expect to walk in someone where and not be asked to work Holidays and weekends?? Does it happen sometimes, yes it does... it happened to me, I came in and didn't have to work that shift. In the same instance (going back to what i said earlier) I knew they could only pay me $7.25 an hour.... and you know what I was fine with that. Because I was making a living, IE I had food, electricity, heat, and the occassional time to go to a movie......why b/c this is what I want to do.

If you want to make a lot of money.... get out of news right now. Just isn't going to happen in this business, b/c their is always someone behind you who'll do that job at a cheaper rate.... and Manangement can't resist that! Nor do I blame them, as a business owner neither would you. But you can make a living, meaning you can go buy food, gas, water, and live a decent life doing this job for what most of us pay. If you can't then it becomes a budget probelm with you...... not me!

Thanks for the ideas guys, I'm using them & still looking to fill a position in case you know anyone who is looking.

Thanks
 
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Alaska cameradude

Well-known member
Look man, no one is blaming you! I know the deal, it's management's decision not yours. What people are pointing out is a simple FACT! You are paying 24k or whatever. You are asking for experienced photogs. Those two things don't generally go together. As you say "there is always someone behind you who'll do the job at a cheaper rate." Well, hire those people then!!!! Many of the "experienced" photogs are moving on to other things....it's just the way life works. How do you get better as a news photog?? Experience. How do you get experience?? Time spent perfecting your craft. What happens as time passes? You get older and realize you may have other goals in your life besides buying "food, gas, water, electricity, heat and to go out to the movies now and then." I've said it before and I'll say it again, you will probably need to look to those recently graduated to fill your positions, you are not going to get a lot of people with experience applying with that rate. As you say, you are not starting them at 40 and cutting them to 20, you give them an honest salary figure and ask them to think about it and see what they think.....and more and more recently what they(the experienced photogs) think is "Thanks but no thanks!" You said it yourself, it's getting hard to find them. It's not cause people don't love their jobs, I LOVE shooting and editing and news gave me a great platform to do it for 7 or 8 years. But when you get the opportunity to shoot and edit AND make more money....while it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what people are going to do. What I'm saying is the news photogs I know are not leaving news to get into banking, real estate or whatever (although some probably do), Rather they are finding OTHER VIDEO JOBS where they can still fufill their love of shooting, editing, lighting and generally being creative, BUT MAKE MORE MONEY!! If someone offered you a job that had basically the same responsibilitys you already have but it paid 2 or 3 times more wouldn't you take it??? Well that my friend is what is happening to news photogs....Just myself I know 2 who left to produce the Gov's weekly "news" program, 5 who left to start their own production company, 2 who left to start shooting wedding, 3 who have been hired by libraries as digital video "consultants" 6 or 7 who left to work for the state shooting and editing for Fish and Game or other departments, 3 or 4 more who were hired by production houses, and that's just in Alaska which has all of 4 TV stations that do news!!!

I know this doesn't really help you in your search for good photogs. I am just telling you what I am seeing. And from what I am seeing you are going to be looking more and more at recent college graduates, some with probably no shooting experience...it sucks but that's the way the industry is moving. Not your fault, not my fault, it just is.
 
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BrandNewChief

Member
Alaska I appreciate the post, but the original post was just that, is anyone out their having trouble finding photogs (Good or bad, Experienced or College.) I'm finding that more kids right out of college as also the ones looking for more money, I'm sure CurrentChief, and others are looking for kids right out of college as well and not getting a lot of tapes. That's what the post is about, is anyone having trouble getting tapes (in general) for a photographer position. The money issue has kind of taken over as the principal reasoning, but no matter who sends a tape here they always have a chance. I'm looking for just graduated, looking to move on, someone with 10 years, someone with 1 year, someone with no degree, any photog to send a tape. Then we break it down from their, but back to the original post, are any Chiefs out their having trouble getting tapes in for a photog opening?

Thanks again Alaska, I understand where you're coming from, I do, it's just 2 people with different ways of looking for happiness. Very simple, we're both right.

Thanks
 
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Alaska cameradude

Well-known member
Yes, I understand what you are saying. As I say, I have good friends still in the news business and they are ALL having problems getting tapes. I'm really not trying to beat you down, I hope you have good luck finding someone,....think about it this way....I have seen a lot of newsies going into other video related jobs. If you can't offer more money, maybe you could offer some of the perks of these other jobs....for example, I know some guys that are really happy cause they are getting to learn non linear editing on their new job with the state, maybe your station has or can obtain a NLE suite (a lot of the photogs I know are tech junkies:) Or maybe you are in a nice warm climate, if so search for photogs in some of the colder places, (I know us Alaska boys sometimes fantasize about the warm climate!!) To tell you the truth about 5 years ago I would have jumped at the chance to go somewhere warm even if it paid 24k. Sadly life moves on and I have a family to support now. These are just ideas, but look at what other video related jobs offer and see if you can offer any of the perks. It really sucks because we both know news hours aren't the best either. One of my old stations used to offer free gym memberships to the news photogs, they got trade with the gym by giving them free commercials....maybe something like that. Any of that stuff can help a little.

I talk to my advisor from college some and she has said that there are not as many people interested in getting into news as there once were. Why? Who really knows, maybe the money, maybe the bad rap news people seem to get among the general public. The people I know that are interested in video seem to be going out and buying handycams and computers, convinced they will make the next "Blair Witch" and strike it big......it's kinda a strange time in video land. I will keep you in mind if I hear of anyone I know looking for a photog job though, a friend of mine just moved to Virginia Beach and took a news photog job so maybe I can send someone your way....
 
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Alaska cameradude

Well-known member
Just gave you a plug over in the general forum on a thread entitled "getting back in...how to do it?" where there are a couple photogs wanting to get back into news. Check it out and give them a PM!!!
 
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