Overtime rates?
- Thread starter BluesCam
- Start date
The Thing on The Sticks
PRO user
Should be just labor. Its part of the reason labor and equipment should always be separate on invoices.
2 Hungry Dogs
Well-known member
Just Labor
Necktie Boy
Well-known member
If it works for sound, give it a shot, but it should be only labor.
I think I'd have a 'Come to Jesus' meeting with that audio guy. I'm not sure I know of anyone that pays OT on gear(And I don't know anyone that bills for it), so unless you happen to find a very generous or understanding client, you're gonna get stuck eating this guys extra billing when you use him(I don't know if he's high up on your list or a Hail Marry/last ditch call). I'd tell him there is NO O.T. on gear and he can accept that when working for you or you won't be calling him anymore. Or he'll just tell you not to call him… 
The Thing on The Sticks
PRO user
I gotta go with run and gun on this. I paid for my camera kit doing sound and try to always pay my sound people a good rate usually the same as I make for labor... but I would never pay overtime on gear... I would do double time after 12 hrs but not overtime on equipment.
Maybe thats normal in the US.. I have a day rate including 2man crew and gear and one for one-man with gear.. and have always charged OT as 10% of the whole day rate per hour.. when ever Ive been asked to itemize my day rate its when they want to knock the rate down..
Why should it just be labour ..? out of interest.. Im not a gear rental company with 20 camera,s and shed full of gear..
Why should it just be labour ..? out of interest.. Im not a gear rental company with 20 camera,s and shed full of gear..
Tv Shooter
Well-known member
Because they can get the gear with no OT on it from a rental house, and thus need to only hire labor. In their mind...and budget...you are a rental house. The amount of gear you have has no bearing on that, but that's the way it's been and will be.
None of the US networks will pay gear OT.
Capt. Slo-mo
Well-known member
Yeah...I always found that "we could get it from a rental house for 3/7, so no OT on gear!" argument a bit specious. First, an owner op is not a rental house...it's a custom selection of gear. Secondly, sure, they COULD provide the gear from a rental house, but what client wants to go through all the time and hassle to rent, insure, ship and return a package full of all the little extras we accumulate to make the job go more smoothly? This is a premium service we provide, and should not be equated with rental house services. Third, after we go over 10, not only am I still working, but so is my gear. The hour meter on the camera does not stop accumulating magically after we go long. Why is my time, craft and equipment suddenly less valuable at 10.5 hours into the shoot as we go into an inordinately long day? Fourth, the prospect of looming OT should be an incentive to shoot efficiently, not a get out of budget jail free card.
But that's just me. Before I moved to the SE, the majority of my clients out West either paid no OT at all, or did time and a half of the day rate by hour: say $100/hour day rate=OT at $150/hour.
Stuff like this is why I dislike setting a split between gear and labor, as opposed to a flat day rate. It just gives the bean counters grist for the mill.
But that's just me. Before I moved to the SE, the majority of my clients out West either paid no OT at all, or did time and a half of the day rate by hour: say $100/hour day rate=OT at $150/hour.
Stuff like this is why I dislike setting a split between gear and labor, as opposed to a flat day rate. It just gives the bean counters grist for the mill.
So they will order and check out the gear and have it delivered and picked up from the location and supply a van and driver for it be transported around and deal with payment.. you should call their bluff one day.. these guys are playing you..
If your just being paid for labor then you can go to work on a bike..
Bottom line, no US clients are paying OT on gear, so the argument is moot for those of us here(there may be some bad@$$ ballers out there that can demand and command it, but the majority of us will never get those terms). Hell, some companies are trying to not pay travel time anymore(only want to pay from crew call on-site to wrap time), instead of portal-to-portal. And Richard is right, there are companies out there that will ship gear around the country, whether it's theirs or a rental houses and just pay operators labor. Most reality TV is like that, the guys shooting the nuts-and-bolts are just operators. Hell, my largest client has given cameras to all of their staff producers. We used to cover the NFL with three full crews. Now it's one full crew and one photog using the producers baby-cam. I've shot more with cameras that weren't mine this year than I have in probably 10-11 years.
Robin, the connotation you have in your head of some third party transporting rented gear around for a shoot isn't how it works when they do that. It's usually one of two ways: the cam's are shipped to the camera guys to use and they ship them back afterwards(much like any other rental, except someone else is paying for it) or sometimes the producers travel in with gear. I'm not defending the practice. I'm an owner/operator and I make the biggest portion of my rate on my gear, but some of the facts here are 1) there isn't OT on gear here and 2) a lot of companies would rather rent from a rental house (or own their own) and ship it around and just hire operators. You always have the option of saying NO to the shoot if you don't like the terms, but that's how it is here.
Robin, the connotation you have in your head of some third party transporting rented gear around for a shoot isn't how it works when they do that. It's usually one of two ways: the cam's are shipped to the camera guys to use and they ship them back afterwards(much like any other rental, except someone else is paying for it) or sometimes the producers travel in with gear. I'm not defending the practice. I'm an owner/operator and I make the biggest portion of my rate on my gear, but some of the facts here are 1) there isn't OT on gear here and 2) a lot of companies would rather rent from a rental house (or own their own) and ship it around and just hire operators. You always have the option of saying NO to the shoot if you don't like the terms, but that's how it is here.
Fair enough.. didnt know it was so bad for you guys.. Ive had plenty of shoots were the dir will shoot and then just call in a "real" crew for the important stuff.. but so far Ive always used my gear .. if they don't want to I don't take the shoot.. as you say thats the choice.. not sure I would advise anyone to get into our business now.. 10 years ago I would have said yes straight away.. shame its going to **** in a basket isn't it..
I don't know if I'd say it's "bad" over here. I can't complain too much. I use my gear for almost everything. I have shot with cams that aren't mine this year, but it's just a fraction compared to my gear and I'm getting some of my gear out on them(HMI rental, etc.) and it's for my largest client, so it's more of a "maintain the relationship" thing, you know, don't seem too big for your britches and ignore them when the money isn't quite as good, because there will be more shoots with my gear than theirs.
But you are right, this isn't the same business that it was a decade ago. Technology is a double edged sword. It's given us incredible tools and equipment that can produce great images that almost anyone can 'afford' now, but at the same time it's marginalized what we do down to "all you need is a good camera, anyone can do it", at least in the eyes of some(the bean counters). And it's even worse, I think, on the stills side. Anyone can buy a camera now that can produce top-notch results, but that doesn't make them a photographer. We know that, but too many don't.
But you are right, this isn't the same business that it was a decade ago. Technology is a double edged sword. It's given us incredible tools and equipment that can produce great images that almost anyone can 'afford' now, but at the same time it's marginalized what we do down to "all you need is a good camera, anyone can do it", at least in the eyes of some(the bean counters). And it's even worse, I think, on the stills side. Anyone can buy a camera now that can produce top-notch results, but that doesn't make them a photographer. We know that, but too many don't.
The Thing on The Sticks
PRO user
True but I have worked with more than a few who given a top notch camera and tools still made a dogs dinner out of what should have been an easy shoot. The same goes for most other trades I can buy plumbing tools I can even do more than most with them but I am not and never will be a plumber.