Google threatens to pull out of China

[Chicago Dog]

I thought this was an interesting article on China's latest attempt to stifle free speech in the homeland:

Google reports China-based attack, says pullout possible

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Google said Tuesday the company and at least 20 others were victims of a "highly sophisticated and targeted attack" originating in China in mid-December, evidently to gain access to the e-mail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.

"Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective," according to a statement by David Drummond, senior vice president of corporate development and chief legal officer for Google, operator of the most popular Internet search engine.

Drummond said that as a result of the attacks, Google has decided it is no longer willing to consider censorship of its Google site in China and may have to shut down its site and its offices in that nation.

Here's the article and here's a video segment about it.

 

[tarzan]

It's about time Google got out of China, after kissing up to Chinese authorities by agreeing to censorship of Google content in China about significant historical events such as Tienanmen Square.
If you haven't seen it, here's a link to he PBS Frontline documentary, "The Tank Man."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=frol02p7b

In particular, go to part 6, "The Struggle to Control Information."

 

[SimonW]

Trouble is, as always, its the people of the country who haven't done anything who lose out. Google may have restricted itself, but the availability of it in any capacity to the Chinese people was a great leap forward. They didn't so much kiss up to the Government as they did what was necessary to get their foot in the door.

Regardless of what we all think of Chinese policy, it isn't for Google to go into a country and tell them how to run it. Any changes to Chinas policies need to be done gradually. If they have a situation such as that when the Soviet Union collapsed there would be utter chaos

China has never really had a stable period in its history. It has always been subject to either invasion and oppression or internal conflict. Any sort of power vacuum would be disastrous. Like it or lump it that's how China is.

Google are in fact scoring an immense own goal here. Google needs China more than China needs Google. They'll just say "Okay, go then." and as a result the Chinese people at large lose one more link with the rest of the world.

 

[tarzan]

You're right, now that I think about it.

One thing that I guess never made sense to me was, what's the point of even staying in power as a communist government if you're going to allow the whole society to turn into a free market economy that would run against the ideals of communism?

 

[Chicago Dog]

Regardless of what we all think of Chinese policy, it isn't for Google to go into a country and tell them how to run it. Any changes to Chinas policies need to be done gradually.

I think you're missing the point: Google isn't telling China how to run their country. They were attacked from within China. That attack intended to access the email records of human rights advocates. It's not a Chinese government policy change, it's Google saying, "Enough is enough."

Google needs China more than China needs Google.

Financially, that may be true. However, the percentage of the financial loss taken by Google is small. According to this follow-up article:

Analysts said less than 2 percent of Google's revenue comes from China.

However, there's more than one point of view on the subject.

Regardless (and as the article states), I think Google could strike a very positive, very big PR hit here if they pull out of China.

 

[SimonW]

One thing that I guess never made sense to me was, what's the point of even staying in power as a communist government if you're going to allow the whole society to turn into a free market economy that would run against the ideals of communism?

Nobody knows what is going on in the inner circle. China knows very well that it can't be a success unless it embraces capitalist tendencies. But as long as there is a hard line within the communist party many things will stay as they are.

Even if the Government was toppled or they went to a more democratic state, look at how things are failing in Russia. They spent so long under communism that they could barely cope otherwise. These days they seem to be moving back again in many respects.

I think you're missing the point: Google isn't telling China how to run their country. They were attacked from within China.

Some democracy activists emails were hacked. While that is a crappy thing to happen I think Google is throwing its toys out of the pram somewhat. I'm sure a company like that could handle things better rather than looking like a stroppy toddler.

What kind of PR hit would they get? Would the people of China get to hear about why Google moved out? No, probably not. So the only PR hit will be scored with people who already know. They'd be preaching to the choir.

 

[Chicago Dog]

What kind of PR hit would they get?

Given the number of people Google serves that don't live in China, I'm assuming it would be pretty big.

Would the people of China get to hear about why Google moved out? No, probably not.

Yes, actually. When they suddenly have absolutely no access to Google, I think they'll put two-and-two together.

 

[SimonW]

Given the number of people Google serves that don't live in China, I'm assuming it would be pretty big.

I still don't get why it would be a PR hit. Most non Communist countries are opposed to how they run things. All it says to me is that they are a western company that hit an obstacle and pulled out. What, are more people all of a sudden going to start using Google Chrome because of this?

Yes, actually. When they suddenly have absolutely no access to Google, I think they'll put two-and-two together.

You think? I doubt that's how the media there will spin it. When my friends wife goes back to China to visit her family she has no idea of what is going on there. They are kept totally in the dark about anything negative.

Sure, there will be some who know the ins and outs of what is happening. But how does Google pulling out actually help anyone? All they are doing is playing to the Governments tune and as a result depriving the people there of a highly useful service. Somehow I don't think the populace there will be thanking Google for having such a small backbone.

 

[Chicago Dog]

All they are doing is playing to the Governments tune and as a result depriving the people there of a highly useful service.

But it's not a useful service. Google wants to be a useful service. The Chinese government, however, has Google in a headlock.

Did you read the articles or just skim them?

 

[SimonW]

As far as the Chinese people are concerned they are getting the same service as everyone else. They are not aware that it is restricted, in the same way that most of them are not even aware of the events in Tiananmen Square.

However that doesn't mean that Google there isn't useful. Google knew full well when it decided to go into China that it wouldn't be able to operate freely. Yet it went ahead anyway. If you are a company that thrives on free information and you decide to go to a country where you know full well that they don't like free flowing information, you can hardly be surprised if it ends in tears now can you?