VJ in DC

[Dirge]

There are several reasons for this:

1. In most local stations, the photographers tend to stay with the station while the reporters are busy moving up and on to the next market.

Management already knows that. They give the “lifers” smaller pay raises because they don’t need a carrot to entice them to stay.

It’s not helping our cause, Mike.

2. Most good photogs already understand what it takes to make a good story.

Yes. Welcome to Vosot Patrol.

3. In most local markets, when a newbie reporter appears (and there are many), it is more often than not the photog who teaches the reporter the ropes.

I agree 100%. However, it’s mostly due to point 1 and knowing what the station expects from the crews.

4. And thankfully, most photogs I have worked with drop the stupid puns local reporters rely on, thank God.

Dang it, where do you think the reporters get the jokes from?

 

[Michaelrosenblum]

Hi Stephen
Thanks for your kind and thoughtful words, and to all the others who sent notes.
The funeral is Sunday, and there is so much to do, but thankfully,
b-roll provides an occasional and much needed distraction.
M

 

[Dirge]

It's good enough is what gets your quality in a bind, and your station in third place. A management team that thinks, 'it's good enough' and encourages 'it's good enough' will lose.

I agree 100%. But we are photographers. We think like photographers. However, there are some people at the home offices of the O & Os that are looking at the HD version of Flip Camcorder and thinking “hey that looks good enough.”

Scary, scary s***.

Don't be better?
What kind of bull**** is this?

What I’m saying is if you have to concentrate on getting better or getting faster, GET FASTER.

I didn’t say NEVER get better. For now get faster.

There is a bit of logic behind this. The faster you get the more time you’ll gain to experiment, try things out, and get arty shots that you’re not sure of. In the mean time, you’ll prove to your ND that you can hustle and get things done. In these tough times when people are getting laid off left and right, you need to prove you’re value. If you’re not dead weight, they’ll keep you.

I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough in my last post. I usually post when I’ve had a few.

You know as well as I do you're right about a need to be fast in TV.
However, fast TV, done over and over again, will kill your station.

For clarification: I’m talking about vos and vosots.

You hear a news director say "We need to increase story count!"... make your tapes.

Um, that happened way back in 1970. And ever since then, every station here has kept doing it the same way.

Think about it. You want the most eyes watching your station. If your evening newscast starts at 4 or 5 and runs until 6:30, you can’t get away repeating the same stories every half hour. You can during the morning show but that’s because viewing habits are different. But to keep people watching for an hour and half (or longer), you need a constant flow of new material.

Question. When you're doing all of this math, are you thinking about your story, and its construction into something visually coherent? It sounds to me that you're doing math to prevent yourselves from doing physical work, or even focusing on finding better shots.

Of course! Every time I punch the record button, I realize I am writing a story (but with visuals instead of words).

Take your typical bank robbery. If you’re watching just the video you can still get the following information just from pictures: What, Where, and When (an approximate time frame if there’s a bank clock). Throw in a graphic of a general description of the robber you get a Who. All that from the visuals.

For the visually coherent thing: of course. You can be fast and still shoot sequentially. They aren’t mutually exclusive actions.

Albert Hitchcock once said that the worst part of making a film is the actually filming. That’s because he’s already shot and edited it in his head. When I get an assignment, I skim over it and get a general idea of how the finished product should look. During actual shooting, I look around for some opportunity I didn’t think of (frame with frame, nat wipe, foreground/background, several planes of movement, a rack focus, etc). But for the most part I’ve already shot it in my imagination. I just have to make it happen. Get what you need. Don’t shoot any extraneous bs.

As for “preventing physical work”, nope. In fact, there’s more work to do every day. I work dayside which is “primetime” for the web. Not only am I shooting video for the television side, I’m shooting/sending back still picks for the web ON EVERY ASSIGNMENT. The deadline for the web is NOW. Sometimes taking still pics has the priority over the video. Maybe your station hasn’t gone nutty for the internet yet but its coming. They won’t cut you any slack on this. It will be your usual work load PLUS web stuff.

You have to work faster.

Sure. That's a workable plan if all you want to do is keep a job.
But if it's just a job, that's bad news to your overall happiness with your life.

Keeping a job is the game plan nowadays!

Who said I wasn’t happy with my life? Is there a correlation between working faster and being unhappy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirge
Don’t shoot any bs, just the good stuff. In and out of a scene in under 5 minutes.

Repeat this 9 or 10 times a day. They’ll never get rid of you.


I would get rid of myself if that was the summation of my work. That's no more fulfilling than working on the hotdog assembly line.

First, you made that summation of my work, not me.

Second, we all work on the hotdog assembly line in reality.

Third, I’m very satisfied with my wiener. I’m sure you are satisfied with yours. (Dyckerson reply in 5, 4, 3…).

Does finding a character or a moment in the story fit into your shot count and stopwatch approach?

Not for vos. For vosots and packages, yes. But I’m talking about vos.

BTW, I don’t have a tattoo of “Thuglife” on my stomach, I have the “Scott Livingston’s Top Ten List.”

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[Chicago Dog]

I'll do it when you can explain how KRON and WKRN went VJ five years ago.

Really, FOX? Really? That's the best you've got? I made the mistake of saying five instead of your claim of three? Big deal.

Guess what? In a few short months, it'll be four years, not the three years you claim. So, we're both wrong. Of the two of us, you're definitely not the one who should be accusing others of fudging facts. You can't even live up to your own claims without dodging or reflecting the responsibility of proving your own argument.

Thanks to your unwillingness to provide the proof over the last few years (while simultaneously making hilariously stupid self-reassuring excuses like, "ratings don't matter"), everyone is quite certain KRON is getting creamed while using the OMB/VJ system. You've yet to prove otherwise. Your constant dodging only strengthens the belief.

I'm expecting you to post the ratings totals for the four major ratings periods of the past four years in San Francisco. Any further deflection or half-assed posting of cherry-picked numbers will prove I'm right and you're wrong.

You're all out of excuses. Put up or shut up.

 

[verdantFOX]

When KRON went 100% VJ (3 years ago ) we were told on this board by KRON management and others that we would see incontrovertible proof within six months that 100% VJ was a success and the world would follow.
We and our craft was dinosaur dead.
It never happened.
So by their own criteria that must count as a fail.

This quote is another good example of the "facts" you people come up with to defend your position. I've been on this board numerous times and I have never once seen KRON management post let alone say that they would have "incontrovertible proof within six months" that what they did was a success and that everyone would adopt it.

Show me any quote from anywhere that KRON management made such statements. In fact the KRON news director gave an update posted on MR's board that they believed it would take a year just to integrate the system into their operation and after two years they were just then felt that VJ was entirely in place.

But of course, you can refute my position by linking to an article, board, or quote that anyone in KRON management said such a thing. You can't do it, because it has never happened.

What you'll hear is what you always hear from people on this board when someone makes a ridiculous claim like you did above. The Dog's of world will chime in with "I remember that!" or "Everyone knows they said that." or a quote from someone saying they were told by someone else that they said something very similar to that.

No one ever made such a statement. Certainly no one at KRON. So, show me the quote, article, or link. Show me.

 

[verdantFOX]

Dog:

No problem. I'm sure it was an entirely honest mistake.

 

[FOXPhotog911]

For all of you who are interested we had a breaking news event in Potomac, MD this week. It was a watermain break, but of epic proportions. There were VJ's there were local radio reporters with VJ-esque cameras and then there were the local news crews. Check out WRC, WTTG, WJLA and WUSA's websites along with WTOP.

Check for yourself and decide which provides better information and coverage.

FOXPhotog

 

[couryhouse]

would be easier if there were a group of links to click though...

do you have any links to vj sites that carried it?

thanks...

For all of you who are interested we had a breaking news event in Potomac, MD this week. It was a watermain break, but of epic proportions. There were VJ's there were local radio reporters with VJ-esque cameras and then there were the local news crews. Check out WRC, WTTG, WJLA and WUSA's websites along with WTOP.

Check for yourself and decide which provides better information and coverage.

FOXPhotog

 

[Baltimore's Finest Fotog]

Fox...

I'm asking honestly and cordially here...Can you or someone out there, who knows where to find them, offer up ratings numbers? As someone who is relatively new to this discussion, I genuinely would like to see some concrete proof that making the switch to VJ is a legitimate way to run a newsroom whose product attracts viewers and advertising dollars?

Let's say my shop decides to turn VJ tomorrow. I want to know just what I'm in for. If I know that we can sustain our product and maintain our share of the audience in a VJ world, then I might think about staying if it means the money will continue to be distributed accordingly - i.e. necessary equipment purchases, raises, etc. However, if I know that our numbers will go from bad to worse by implementing the VJ model, I'm sure as hell not going to stick around and HOPE that the bean counters throw us a couple bucks for necessities like a living wage.



On a side note...

BTW, I don’t have a tattoo of “Thuglife” on my stomach, I have the “Scott Livingston’s Top Ten List.”

Scott would be honored. He is a wise man, who always loved to talk shop - even though he's not shooting anymore - when I worked for him in Baltimore.

 

[cameragod]

To be honest I’ve got a life and there are so many posts on b-roll about VJ I didn’t bother to look for it there but google “KRON VJ six months” and in amongst the dead links…

And now Fox you can tell us all that google is part of some big conspiracy because according to you comments like this never happened.
From Talent vs. Tech: KRON-TV Turns to VJ Format

Antonitis says it's too early to tell yet whether or not the VJ format can succeed for KRON. So far, he acknowledges, there is little proof that it has. Six months from now, however, he believes the station will be in a better position to gauge its impact.
"We're in that transition period," Antonitis says.

Now I know that he said it clearer here and elsewhere. I even remember Michael saying at the time that he thought 6 months was a bit optimistic but can we now say that it did happen Fox?

 

[cameragod]

Let's say my shop decides to turn VJ tomorrow. I want to know just what I'm in for.

As long as I'm trawling google... here is what you would be in for: KRON's Last Gasp

 

[Baltimore's Finest Fotog]

All of you are arguing this point as if ratings are the only measure of success. That's fine if that is YOUR measure. Do any of you think that Young, Lin, NBC, or Gannet are only concerned about ratings? They are concerned about EXPENSES. When one person can do the job of two, you cut your expenses in half. THAT is what they care about right now -- expenses.

Sorry...I just had to mention this...In browsing through some links on one of the pages to which camergod posted a link, I found this little gem...

“This is to get more people on the street and boost ratings,” says Sechrist, also WKRN's president and general manager. “We have to get the audience back.”

Source: http://www.allbusiness.com/media-telecommunications/media-content-news-reporting/6273432-1.html


Also...

"While insisting publicly that the move was made primarily for journalistic reasons, company officials acknowledge the cost savings inherent in having one person do the job of three or more people. Mark Antonitis, KRON's general manager, who was sent in from a station in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, to oversee the transition, also acknowledges the rough spots. 'We're a work in progress. These things take time,' he says. 'A year from now, two years from now, you're going to see a remarkable transformation.'"

Source: http://www.sfweekly.com/2006-04-12/news/kron-s-last-gasp/1

The latter report was filed April 12, 2006. By my math, we should now see a remarkable transformation at KRON. Is this the case? I wonder if he would stand by his words?

 

[cameragod]

Just another thing Fox your Join Date: Nov 2005 and your first post was in 02-03-2006.
The “Six month” claim would have been posted well before both of them, so how would you know what was said?

 

[Astocker]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum and just read through this topic. Interesting. Let me add a data point to the discussion.

For the last 13 years I have primarily shot for NBC News and primarily Dateline within that. The squeeze there has been fairly intense for the last 2 years. Last fall they hired me to start VJ classes for the news producers. What the heck, work is work and it's not my railroad. NBC's goal is to have a very small group of cameramen for very important stuff and everything else is done by VJ. I read through a lot of the discussion here about whether VJs are going to be successful or not. At NBC it doesn't matter. They really don't care. There are commercials and the anchor parts and then there's that stuff that comes between them. They really don't pay much attention to that stuff. In fact most places don't. They may say they do, but they lie. At a Burbank bureau meeting this month an upper management person (who was primarily there to lay off a bunch of people) told the staff that the look they want for field material is "Youtube." That's because it's the "way the viewer expects to see things now." Of course there's not a grain of truth to that statement but that's not the point. They just don't see value in news footage beyond "something there." And if the public shoots it, so much the better.

There's a saying here in Hollywood: "Ride the horse in the direction it's going" if you want to get the film made. Step back and look at the big picture. People have been warning about the internet effect for years. Well, it's finally here. How are your local papers doing? The LA Times (as part of Tribune) just went chapter 11. Every year now more local stations drop their newscasts or combine with other stations. KNBC here is partnering with FOX for several functions. The Burbank lot has been sold and they have no where to move to. Thinking 12 month ahead is not something they do anymore.

Every single thing you hear today will be wrong 6 months from now. All promises will be broken. That's the direction this horse is going. It's a frightening new world out there. If you read the trades or the business wires you know this is the worst advertising market in our lifetime and then some. We work in a business that is ad driven. Media owners are in total meltdown. From the networks to the smallest markets, the suits are running the halls with their hair on fire. They spout gibberish. They grab at chimeras (not the lights). They think VJs will save them. They won't. Like Detroit, they are simply managing failure until they can get out themselves. And they'll say anything in the meantime.

I have a friend who's a national ad buyer. He does a lot of research about where to best place his client's ads. That's why you see all the Depends commercials on the network newscasts. He and his industry are stunned at the TV business. The people that love TV and especially TV news are folks over 50 - the very people TV hates. So TV goes after an audience that won't ever watch them (18 to 49) while offending their core audience. And the numbers continue to decline. They are driving away the very people that like watching TV. And young people will simply watch it on the internet. Who do they think is home at 5pm? This does not have a good ending. At least not until a new business model has been established.

We all have a choice here. Get yourself properly seated and hang on, hoping for the best. Or get proactive. Get off the horse and try something different. I'm an old fart, I like being in the saddle at NBC. I'm resistant to change. I've been there for 25 years off and on. So I'm going to ride this for a while longer while I can. But I know I can be bucked off at any moment. The list of freelancers at NBC used to be rather long. Now there's just a couple of us left that can actually do more than 2 days a month out here.

This is not about the TV industry, this is about the entire economy. And it's a tsunami sweeping everything up in its path. You can cling to the debris and likely drown or you can ride the wave to see where it takes you.

We are witnessing a profound change. I would love to read stories on this forum about how you are making the new industry from the wreckage of what once was a grand and glorious profession. And it will be again, if anyone cares enough to create the new. Don't save the past, like film its time has come and gone. Embrace the new year for everything it can be, not for what it once was.

Good luck to us all,

t

 

[AlexLucas]

The LA Times (as part of Tribune) just went chapter 11. Every year now more local stations drop their newscasts or combine with other stations. KNBC here is partnering with FOX for several functions. The Burbank lot has been sold and they have no where to move to. Thinking 12 month ahead is not something they do anymore.
*
We all have a choice here. Get yourself properly seated and hang on, hoping for the best. Or get proactive. Get off the horse and try something different. I'm an old fart, I like being in the saddle at NBC. I'm resistant to change. I've been there for 25 years off and on. So I'm going to ride this for a while longer while I can. But I know I can be bucked off at any moment. The list of freelancers at NBC used to be rather long. Now there's just a couple of us left that can actually do more than 2 days a month out here.

We are witnessing a profound change. I would love to read stories on this forum about how you are making the new industry from the wreckage of what once was a grand and glorious profession. And it will be again, if anyone cares enough to create the new. Don't save the past, like film its time has come and gone. Embrace the new year for everything it can be, not for what it once was.

Good luck to us all,

t

T-
I feel ya man. I do.
That part about television stations merging in L.A. is, in short, nuts.
How on earth is it that a television station can't make it in L.A.?
It must be like the auto industry out there. You can make so much money in TV that you can compound mistakes after mistakes, managers that don't know or care about TV, and all of the sudden, bam, you've spent so much on the frivolous that you can't make payroll?
INSANE!
It somewhat proves my opinion that people who manage TV stations think about their timeslots for Judge Judy than they actually think about the content, and where it is leading them.

Success comes from tightening stories.
It doesn't come from choppers, promos, and the like.

*
I actually do know where this is going.
I was the canary in 'the coal mine' for all of us. I made two terrible decisions that looked sane at the time, and turned sour for no apparent reason.
I worked for Sinclair after September 11th, when they became an arm for the Republican party, to Young Broadcasting in WKRN, which at the time, was six months away from losing it's mind over finances and going VJ.
It was a terrible four years, of screaming, yelling, suddenly watching people get walked out of buildings, being chased down halls by crazed managers ...you name it, it probably happened.

And that whole time, all of the people that were looking at the staff as the answer, weren't looking at the newscast to see what was going on.

Here's my prediction.
Whoever, in a free watch society, provides real quality, wins.
They just have to figure out where those eyes are going, and tie it together.
Nobody really knows right now how to promote real quality when it's spread over all of these mediums.
Somebody finds a way to put news on Hulu, or whatever, and they'll win.
Right now, people are afraid to put full newscasts on the web.
I have no understanding why they are afraid of this.

Yes, it's changing, and I've diversified.
All of us love news... just right now, it sure isn't going to love us back.

 

[verdantFOX]

Cameragod:

Look, in all fairness, the quotes people have come up with are of the vaguest sort. The GM is quoted as saying things will take time. The quotes you've given sound as if the GM was giving a wait-and-see approach and admitted it was a work in progress. That is a very measured statement no where near the claims of "incontrovertible proof". I think it basically unfair for anyone to make these wildly exaggerated claims essentially putting words in peoples' mouths when the best you can come up with is "it's going to take time."

Next, even if, as you assert, KRON management went on this board to make those claims, it seem completely out of character of what you read in the trades, other boards, or even the article on "KRON's Last Gasp". The GM and the management team is quite measured on what they say. Besides, even they had actually said that, it would have been shoved up their a$$ on this board contently over the last few years.

As far as remarkable transformations how about going from a traditional staff of photogs, editors, reporters and writers to an entire staff of VJs? Based on what he said, that's a possible interpretation, or you can interpret it more aggressively as you have. But that statement mentions nothing about ratings, or any other form of success let alone enormous success.

I understand you have other things to do as do I, but the statement you are attributing to KRON management is of such an aggressive nature, I would have to see it for me to believe they had actually said that. I certainly would not accede to agreeing that it is fact simply because it was allegedly posted here before I was a member. Do you think that an unreasonable position?

As far as how difficult it is to transition from a fully staffed traditional news department to a VJ department, the article admits it was difficult, but three years later they are still VJ. And the VJ they highlighted, Teresa Astoscio is still there.

 

[verdantFOX]

Baltimore:

I would be happy to post ratings for you. May I suggest a different approach? Instead of me picking a date from the past week or so, you pick it from some future date. How about the first week in January? Viewing habits will be more along norms by then. You pick the date, and the dayparts and I'll post them. That will keep Dog and his ilk from claiming for years thereafter that I stuffed the ballot.

Just let me know.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Freddie, it sounds like you've picked up a malicious bit of malware. I've seen what you're describing before. It's a program that looks through any web pages you load, picks certain words and turns them into links to advertisers. You end up with pages full of links to things of no interest to you. I don't see any of the links you mention, and I doubt anybody else does, because it's not on this site but on your own machine.

If you do a spyware scan with something like AdAware or Spybot, it should be able to identify it and get rid of it for you.

Thanks. It was on my end, and it's gone now.

 

[Chicago Dog]

FOX, you make me laugh.

Look, in all fairness, the quotes people have come up with are of the vaguest sort.

Instead of admitting that you're wrong, you provide excuses. Hilarious! Is anyone really surprised?

I would be happy to post ratings for you. May I suggest a different approach? Instead of me picking a date from the past week or so, you pick it from some future date.

You're a real piece of work. I've asked you multiple times to post ratings. Each and every time, the simple request is met with nothing but excuses. Through your excuse-driven refusal, you've inadvertently proven that KRON is, indeed, getting creamed in the ratings. KRON has not improved as it was predicted the would.

I find it utterly hilarious you have the balls to condemn others for not providing "proof" when you can't even do it for your claims.

Oh well. Your opportunity is over. Back to my ignore list you go. Your presence on this forum adds absolutely nothing. Save yourself some effort: hit the "logout" button and stay there.

 

[verdantFOX]

Dog:

Interesting. I've posted ratings several times. I haven't posted them when you demanded me to do so, due largely to the fact that you are an impolite malicious a$$. I'm human (despite what you say about me on this board) and don't generally respond well to screaming fits from children like yourself. Baltimore simply requested the ratings in a civil, polite way, kinda like a discussion between normal adults.

Baltimore, just let me know what day and time periods you want. I'd be happy to provide them.