AB
Well-known member
I thought the NPPA threads were done for 2008!
Happy Holidays to you and the boys up in the Triad "Slinger".
VJ in DC
- Thread starter AKinDC
- Start date
I thought the NPPA threads were done for 2008!
Happy Holidays to you and the boys up in the Triad "Slinger".
AlexLucas
PRO user
Having an anonymous board is a good thing.
And besides me, and Rosenblum, and Nino, everyone has at least a handle, whther we know they're Stuart or the like.
I knew that I might get trashed when I took my name as myself.
I did it as a matter of credibility.
But at the same time, Verdant is now character attacking with a very specific goal of suckerpunching me from behind a mask, and doing everything in his power to bait, destroy, and overcome the community. He's using basic freeper techniques, trolling, and inserting unchallenged anecdotal character assaults, and FUDding people.
That's straight up abuse of the forum.
Almost any forum in the world will warn you, and then kick you for that.
When I'm telling him to step to me without the mask, I am doing it as a point at the person that is trying to drown my character from the dark.
It's not about B-roll.net, or their policies.
AlexLucas
PRO user
I get you man. I do.
But where you said that it makes Rosenblum look rational...
...well, that's the point of all of these attacks.
Put sand under the foundation of our community.
And yes, I will be leaving the community for a cool off period.
You're right. Not even I am as evil as Rosenblum.
Chicago Dog
Well-known member
Truth be known, I'm a little surprised this topic still gets eight pages of responses.
There's four stations in the United States that have gone to an all-OMB/VJ way of doing things. Two of them were right off the bat. Rosenblum promised more would follow in the coming two years. It's been five years. There's been no avalanche of followers. There's been no revolution, nor will there be. It would've happened by now.
It has not. A handful of stations and a handful of OMB/VJs does not a revolution make.
In the five years since Young's wholly stupid move, only two other stations have followed suit. Surprise of surprises, both shops are dead-last and trying to stay afloat.
There are a paltry few who still think the OMB/VJ system is the way to go, and even start screaming about success if a OMB/VJ or two are hired at some station in BFE. Of course, those people are too ignorant to realize that the idea behind the OMB/VJ existed long before it was dubbed VJ by some salesman preying on fear.
Hey -- I've got a L2LS (Land-To-Land Span) to sell ya. It looks like a bridge, sure...
This isn't the first time FOX has become downright nasty. He had a string of disgusting posts flaming me earlier this year. They were rightly deleted after I reported them.
While I do agree it's time for some cooling down, Alex has a valid point. Alex, I can only suggest you use the "report post" link and write up an explanation. I'd also suggest the "ignore" feature, but it's difficult when you're using your real name and don't know some jackass is trying to make you look like a fool.
There's four stations in the United States that have gone to an all-OMB/VJ way of doing things. Two of them were right off the bat. Rosenblum promised more would follow in the coming two years. It's been five years. There's been no avalanche of followers. There's been no revolution, nor will there be. It would've happened by now.
It has not. A handful of stations and a handful of OMB/VJs does not a revolution make.
In the five years since Young's wholly stupid move, only two other stations have followed suit. Surprise of surprises, both shops are dead-last and trying to stay afloat.
There are a paltry few who still think the OMB/VJ system is the way to go, and even start screaming about success if a OMB/VJ or two are hired at some station in BFE. Of course, those people are too ignorant to realize that the idea behind the OMB/VJ existed long before it was dubbed VJ by some salesman preying on fear.
Hey -- I've got a L2LS (Land-To-Land Span) to sell ya. It looks like a bridge, sure...
This isn't the first time FOX has become downright nasty. He had a string of disgusting posts flaming me earlier this year. They were rightly deleted after I reported them.
While I do agree it's time for some cooling down, Alex has a valid point. Alex, I can only suggest you use the "report post" link and write up an explanation. I'd also suggest the "ignore" feature, but it's difficult when you're using your real name and don't know some jackass is trying to make you look like a fool.
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verdantFOX
Well-known member
Dog:
You are back to your old habit. KRON started VJs three years ago, not five. You can repeat it over and over, but it's still not true.
You and Alex are welcome to hide behind Lenslinger's apron, but I will not. You attack me as you both have done so frequently in the past and I'll attack back. It is amazing to hear two of you act as innocents after spewing so much vitriol and patently false information.
You are back to your old habit. KRON started VJs three years ago, not five. You can repeat it over and over, but it's still not true.
You and Alex are welcome to hide behind Lenslinger's apron, but I will not. You attack me as you both have done so frequently in the past and I'll attack back. It is amazing to hear two of you act as innocents after spewing so much vitriol and patently false information.
Nino Giannotti
Well-known member
FOX, if you could come back to our business for few seconds instead of trying to divert the attention by analyzing parallels with the automotive industry. Undoubtedly you are part of management so I imagine that when you made this statement you must know something that we don’t.
So this was my question, yet unanswered of course.
So this was my question, yet unanswered of course.
AlexLucas
PRO user
AAAAAND....
How would you know if my information was false?
You're just a person that reads this forum, you're not in the 'inner circle,' right?
This is getting funny.
verdantFOX
Well-known member
Ummm, let's see how would I know?
I work in San Francisco. I talk to people all the time. I read the trades. We started talking about it three years ago on this board when about a hundred articles came out.
I was paying attention. I get my facts straight. I can count.
Ummm, I don't know. I took a wild guess.
You're quite the journalist ole boy.
I work in San Francisco. I talk to people all the time. I read the trades. We started talking about it three years ago on this board when about a hundred articles came out.
I was paying attention. I get my facts straight. I can count.
Ummm, I don't know. I took a wild guess.
You're quite the journalist ole boy.
verdantFOX
Well-known member
Nino:
It's a well known fact in this industry that the number 2 station in a market is often the most profitable. Their ratings are lower, but so are their expenses. Often number one stations have much higher expenses than number 2 stations. That's why ratings are not the only measure of success. Most companies would prefer being profitable to being number one.
Does that answer your question?
It's a well known fact in this industry that the number 2 station in a market is often the most profitable. Their ratings are lower, but so are their expenses. Often number one stations have much higher expenses than number 2 stations. That's why ratings are not the only measure of success. Most companies would prefer being profitable to being number one.
Does that answer your question?
Freddie Mercury
Well-known member
What the...?
I guess I will see if it comes with the quote. What's the story with the commercial links on seemingly random words in postings? Is this a revenue source for the website or did something attach itself in a hostile way?
UPDATE: Not only did it not come with the quote, it also isn't where it was originally. There was a link on the word "board" in V-Fox's post. I've seen it in others, including my own. Crazy stuff.
I guess I will see if it comes with the quote. What's the story with the commercial links on seemingly random words in postings? Is this a revenue source for the website or did something attach itself in a hostile way?
UPDATE: Not only did it not come with the quote, it also isn't where it was originally. There was a link on the word "board" in V-Fox's post. I've seen it in others, including my own. Crazy stuff.
couryhouse
PRO user
the gs-35 has a huge zoom range thus I can leave the wide angle attach on it 24/7 and just zoom though it! the long end, even though the WA attach is still a long focal length lens. totally cool.
Dang, if I had known this would have put me on his ignore list, I would have posted these long ago!
And how exactly do the lenses suck? I've seen some pretty amazing footage shot by individuals using 'fixed lenses.' Is it the lens that makes the video look good... or the person behind the lense?
I think we're selling ourselves short by saying we need a better lens to take a better picture and that cameras with a fixed lens just plain 'suck.'
I admit... I shoot on a fixed lens camera at work (EX1). Does the fact that I can't change the lens and can only add an attachment of some sort make it a bad camera?
And even though I'm being ignored on this...
Golly... I hear people pi$$ and moan about how they can't get some double A batteries when they need them... but apparently there's a plethora (look it up) of lenses to choose from in every shop across the country... except mine. Go figure!
I'm sure you hit the 'lens room' and take your pick of more than a dozen lenses that are laid out before you head out to go interview the mayor or get a few MOS' on your next shoot.
Please enlighten us all as to what shop has such a fantastic selection of lenses for all their photogs!
And let me repeat something I've said before numerous times: The OMB position is NOT for everybody! Nor is it for EVERY STORY! There are obviously some people who have no business operating a camera and there are people who have no business being on tv!
Baltimore's Finest Fotog
Well-known member
Sorry, I just find it funny how you prostituted the word "allow" out there. If you ask me, the unions rolled over like dogs so management could rub their bellies and tell them what "good boys" they are. In my eyes, these deals merely "allow" the newsroom managers the power to re-assign duties so they can do "more with less."
You had to have worked in a management position at some point. I mean, that's the only way I can comprehend how a guy who works his tail off in the field every day - as I trust you do as a OMB - can honestly sit here and defend the ACME brand solution for how to run a television station when times are tough.
Look, I don't know you all that well from this board - other than having read your many defenses of the VJ system. And I'm not even looking to pile on you. But, I can't help but find it terribly ironic that you're now begging for historical data from others when so many of your opponents have asked that of you in order to defend your stance on VJ conversion and whether it can be successful and sustainable as a business model in the broadcast journalism industry.
verdantFOX
Well-known member
Baltimore:
Right to the point -- what exactly are you looking for that I have not already provided? I've provided ratings numerous times, I've shown that VJ is expanding to other groups as I predicted it would, I said that all those who discounted the possibility of VJ expanding past Young Broadcasting were in denial, what exactly have I said that has turned out be untrue? I've posted 277 times. Show me one fact I've got wrong. Show me one prediction that has not come true.
And I'm not talking about what you people THINK I said, or claimed I said, or some fiction Dog came up with. I've been on the record over and over again over the last three years. I can point out facts from Dog that are wrong from TODAY, show me where I was wrong one time over the last three years.
It's easy to discount me, it's much harder to prove that I've ever been factually wrong.
Right to the point -- what exactly are you looking for that I have not already provided? I've provided ratings numerous times, I've shown that VJ is expanding to other groups as I predicted it would, I said that all those who discounted the possibility of VJ expanding past Young Broadcasting were in denial, what exactly have I said that has turned out be untrue? I've posted 277 times. Show me one fact I've got wrong. Show me one prediction that has not come true.
And I'm not talking about what you people THINK I said, or claimed I said, or some fiction Dog came up with. I've been on the record over and over again over the last three years. I can point out facts from Dog that are wrong from TODAY, show me where I was wrong one time over the last three years.
It's easy to discount me, it's much harder to prove that I've ever been factually wrong.
cameradog
Well-known member
Freddie, it sounds like you've picked up a malicious bit of malware. I've seen what you're describing before. It's a program that looks through any web pages you load, picks certain words and turns them into links to advertisers. You end up with pages full of links to things of no interest to you. I don't see any of the links you mention, and I doubt anybody else does, because it's not on this site but on your own machine.
If you do a spyware scan with something like AdAware or Spybot, it should be able to identify it and get rid of it for you.
Chicago Dog
Well-known member
Yeah -- about those "ratings."
Truthfully, I had to hit the "view post" button when I saw a bunch of people responding to you. What can I say? I rubberneck at car wrecks like anyone else.
Pay attention, dumbass, because this next sentence is sweet and to the point:
You've proven nothing.
Provide us with San Francisco's overall ratings numbers for all the major ratings periods. No cherry picking, and don't bother writing up an exposition explaining why various time periods sucked for KRON.
Enough with the excuses. Enough with your hilarious, self-reassuring illusions of grandeur. Enough with your inconsistent analogies. Enough with your bullshıt.
Show us the numbers or shut the hell up.
verdantFOX
Well-known member
Dog:
I'll do it when you can explain how KRON and WKRN went VJ five years ago. Please show me. FIVE years you said more than once. You play fast and loose with facts. In fact, I doubt that you know the meaning. FIVE years. That would be 2003. Show me an article, anything from 2003 that mentioning either station went VJ. Five years Dog. Five years. Show me.
I'll do it when you can explain how KRON and WKRN went VJ five years ago. Please show me. FIVE years you said more than once. You play fast and loose with facts. In fact, I doubt that you know the meaning. FIVE years. That would be 2003. Show me an article, anything from 2003 that mentioning either station went VJ. Five years Dog. Five years. Show me.
cameragod
Well-known member
Fox I think you may be right and KRON started their VJ’s in 2005… not that it’s relevant to anything, the 100% VJ model has been argued over and over on this board for about 8 years now so its easy to think KRON has been going on longer… there are times it feels a lot longer.
I really don’t understand your position. You seem to go out of your way to find odd criteria under which VJ could be called a success. (Yes the Titanic sunk but some of the people on board survived…IT’S A SUCCESS!)
When KRON went 100% VJ (3 years ago
) we were told on this board by KRON management and others that we would see incontrovertible proof within six months that 100% VJ was a success and the world would follow.
We and our craft was dinosaur dead.
It never happened.
So by their own criteria that must count as a fail.
But you seem to argue that their mere survival is a form of success, even though plenty of other stations survive without such drastic stuff as 100% VJ.
So aside from semantic arguing what is your point?
Ok you found some ratings that show dead cat bounce… so what?
Line by line I understand what you say, god help me I read it all, I see the painfully twisted logic but I don’t think you are listening to yourself. As a whole it’s all nit picking pointless babble.
What is your point?
4 stations in 3 years, is that some kind of tipping point?
Look out guys were all dead now, Fox said.
Is that it? If the VJ model ever takes off are you trying to carve your name in history as the guy who picked it?
Congratulations and good luck with that... mind you it's not your real name so you've cocked that up before you've begun
Anyway one aspect of VJ I haven’t touched up until now is this concept floated by Michael and other’s that sweeping generalization that Photogs make better VJ’s than reporters. I’ve seen it repeated so often I think people are actually starting to believe it.
To me it clearly defines the utter contempt some people have toward reporters and their profession. After all it’s just a bunch of words.
Well I don’t think it’s fair. If you judge VJ stories by what looks the best then Photogs damn well should win but what about journalism? What about the content Michael claimed would be better under VJ? I can fake it with the best but honest to god real journalism? I wouldn’t want the stations credibility riding on my dyslexic shoulders.
So Photogs can make better pictures and demand respect for that. How about we do journalists the same curtersey and give them some respect for their craft, I’ve worked with many that deserve it.
And just while I’m waiting, I know we all joke about VJ’s having cheap/disposable cameras, well it’s obviously true. Someone had left this sitting by itself in a foyer. Anyone could have taken it... fortunately nobody wanted it.
I really don’t understand your position. You seem to go out of your way to find odd criteria under which VJ could be called a success. (Yes the Titanic sunk but some of the people on board survived…IT’S A SUCCESS!)
When KRON went 100% VJ (3 years ago
) we were told on this board by KRON management and others that we would see incontrovertible proof within six months that 100% VJ was a success and the world would follow. We and our craft was dinosaur dead.
It never happened.
So by their own criteria that must count as a fail.
But you seem to argue that their mere survival is a form of success, even though plenty of other stations survive without such drastic stuff as 100% VJ.
So aside from semantic arguing what is your point?
Ok you found some ratings that show dead cat bounce… so what?
Line by line I understand what you say, god help me I read it all, I see the painfully twisted logic but I don’t think you are listening to yourself. As a whole it’s all nit picking pointless babble.
What is your point?
4 stations in 3 years, is that some kind of tipping point?
Look out guys were all dead now, Fox said.
Is that it? If the VJ model ever takes off are you trying to carve your name in history as the guy who picked it?
Congratulations and good luck with that... mind you it's not your real name so you've cocked that up before you've begun
Anyway one aspect of VJ I haven’t touched up until now is this concept floated by Michael and other’s that sweeping generalization that Photogs make better VJ’s than reporters. I’ve seen it repeated so often I think people are actually starting to believe it.
To me it clearly defines the utter contempt some people have toward reporters and their profession. After all it’s just a bunch of words.
Well I don’t think it’s fair. If you judge VJ stories by what looks the best then Photogs damn well should win but what about journalism? What about the content Michael claimed would be better under VJ? I can fake it with the best but honest to god real journalism? I wouldn’t want the stations credibility riding on my dyslexic shoulders.
So Photogs can make better pictures and demand respect for that. How about we do journalists the same curtersey and give them some respect for their craft, I’ve worked with many that deserve it.
And just while I’m waiting, I know we all joke about VJ’s having cheap/disposable cameras, well it’s obviously true. Someone had left this sitting by itself in a foyer. Anyone could have taken it... fortunately nobody wanted it.
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Michaelrosenblum
Well-known member
Dear Cameragod
In my experience, photographers generally make better VJs than do reporters who are trained to shoot, particularly when it comes to local news.
While this is not always, the case, it is more often than not the truth.
There are several reasons for this:
1. In most local stations, the photographers tend to stay with the station while the reporters are busy moving up and on to the next market. As a result, the photographers, over time, tend to have far better local knowledge of the stories and the players. They have, after all, been covering them for years.
2. Most good photogs already understand what it takes to make a good story. Again, they are there gathering the elements, and when they screen the cut pieces they tend to see the flaws as well as what works better than the reporters.
3. In most local markets, when a newbie reporter appears (and there are many), it is more often than not the photog who teaches the reporter the ropes. I have seen and heard this many times. I have yet to hear or see a reporter teach a photog what to do - though it may have happened
4. Writing for news, for the most part, is pretty straightforward. There are your occasional lyrical Kuralts, but they are very much a rarity. Most photogs already 'hear' the narration in their heads - they have been doing this enough, it's not so hard. And thankfully, most photogs I have worked with drop the stupid puns local reporters rely on, thank God.
5. As in any field, there is a spectrum of quality, from terrible to great. The vast majority of local news sits pretty squarely in the center or slightly center left. While you will every once in a while run into the 'genius journalist' in local news, it is more the rarity than the rule. As with newspapers, the vast majority of the content is basic nuts and bolts with the occasional sprinkling of excellence. Most good photogs can deliver this, and much better - at least in my experience.
In my experience, photographers generally make better VJs than do reporters who are trained to shoot, particularly when it comes to local news.
While this is not always, the case, it is more often than not the truth.
There are several reasons for this:
1. In most local stations, the photographers tend to stay with the station while the reporters are busy moving up and on to the next market. As a result, the photographers, over time, tend to have far better local knowledge of the stories and the players. They have, after all, been covering them for years.
2. Most good photogs already understand what it takes to make a good story. Again, they are there gathering the elements, and when they screen the cut pieces they tend to see the flaws as well as what works better than the reporters.
3. In most local markets, when a newbie reporter appears (and there are many), it is more often than not the photog who teaches the reporter the ropes. I have seen and heard this many times. I have yet to hear or see a reporter teach a photog what to do - though it may have happened
4. Writing for news, for the most part, is pretty straightforward. There are your occasional lyrical Kuralts, but they are very much a rarity. Most photogs already 'hear' the narration in their heads - they have been doing this enough, it's not so hard. And thankfully, most photogs I have worked with drop the stupid puns local reporters rely on, thank God.
5. As in any field, there is a spectrum of quality, from terrible to great. The vast majority of local news sits pretty squarely in the center or slightly center left. While you will every once in a while run into the 'genius journalist' in local news, it is more the rarity than the rule. As with newspapers, the vast majority of the content is basic nuts and bolts with the occasional sprinkling of excellence. Most good photogs can deliver this, and much better - at least in my experience.
cameragod
Well-known member
Hi Michael I hope you are doing ok. I was very saddened to hear about your Dad.
I edited your name in and out of my post as I know using it seems to summon you to the board and then I thought what the heck you can make your own mind up where you want to be right now.
We’ve just had an instance of a national radio presenter being accused of plagiarism
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4770117a1860.html
She was a rising star who to my knowledge has no formal journalism training. She sort of drifted into it at a local level, got lucky and went up from there. Amazingly she seems to think its ok to cut and paste other peoples work without attributing it. I think she is a classic example of what happens when you let just anyone play at reporting.
I always shoot with a narrative or at least a line in my head but that doesn’t mean I could or would want to write the whole thing (you don’t want to know the puns that lurk in my mind as I shoot, the worlds is a better place not knowing.)
I’ve trained a lot of young and not so young reporters about pictures. Heck I’ve even trained guys from your failed stations… from scratch. How to think about what we shoot and how to use it. How to be part of a team.
You are the one who said VJ is all about content but now apparently not? At least not as far as journalism is concerned.
Over the years I’ve work with too many good journalists to think just anyone can do their job to their level and shoot at the same time. It would drive me nuts knowing I’m never going to be as good as them journalistically and still having to compromise with my pictures.
I edited your name in and out of my post as I know using it seems to summon you to the board and then I thought what the heck you can make your own mind up where you want to be right now.
We’ve just had an instance of a national radio presenter being accused of plagiarism
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4770117a1860.html
She was a rising star who to my knowledge has no formal journalism training. She sort of drifted into it at a local level, got lucky and went up from there. Amazingly she seems to think its ok to cut and paste other peoples work without attributing it. I think she is a classic example of what happens when you let just anyone play at reporting.
I always shoot with a narrative or at least a line in my head but that doesn’t mean I could or would want to write the whole thing (you don’t want to know the puns that lurk in my mind as I shoot, the worlds is a better place not knowing.)
I’ve trained a lot of young and not so young reporters about pictures. Heck I’ve even trained guys from your failed stations… from scratch. How to think about what we shoot and how to use it. How to be part of a team.
You are the one who said VJ is all about content but now apparently not? At least not as far as journalism is concerned.
Over the years I’ve work with too many good journalists to think just anyone can do their job to their level and shoot at the same time. It would drive me nuts knowing I’m never going to be as good as them journalistically and still having to compromise with my pictures.