VJ in DC

[cameradog]

Bam!
And Verdant is revealed to me as one of three people.
"Undercut." That was it. Found you.
Sechrist (ex-WKRN GM), Sabato (Sechrist's friend and ex-ND) or 'ol Rosenblum.

His posts certainly do make a lot more sense in that context. I'm guessing it's Sechrist. The writing style and arguments don't really smell like Rosenblum.

But I expect strong denials from him now. No, he's just a disinterested party who admires what Rosenblum has tried to do. Yeah, right.

 

[verdantFOX]

Strike a chord did I Alex/Superstar?

To my knowledge I've never met you. What I know of you comes from this board.

And what I see, I don't like. You are like so many others who have to justify what they do by trashing others. For argument sake, let's just say you only undercut your management. Let's see now, these are the same people who encouraged you, praised you, and held you as a model of what an employee should be.

Oh, I see now why you would hate them and trash them at every opportunity. Quite the Superstar you are ole boy. But you do make a good point, anyone who would trust you the way they did deserves what they get.

You're no Superstar dude, you're just another failed VJ trying to find work.

 

[Lensmith]

.., you're just another failed VJ trying to find work.

I have to laugh since many of us having been saying the same thing about those who've taken VJ training classes over the last few years, expecting a long term career that pays a living wage, only to find there isn't one.

 

[verdantFOX]

Lensmith:

At one time GM and Ford paid wages that were the envy of working class people everywhere. They were highly specialized, highly compensated, and the businesses highly profitable. That has all changed. Why, because everyone got lazy, greedy and refused to change -- both management and workers.

I dare say that at one point the unions laughed when management suggested they do more. No one is laughing now.

See any parallels?

 

[Lensmith]

Lensmith:

At one time GM and Ford paid wages that were the envy of working class people everywhere. They were highly specialized, highly compensated, and the businesses highly profitable. That has all changed. Why, because everyone got lazy, greedy and refused to change -- both management and workers.

I dare say that at one point the unions laughed when management suggested they do more. No one is laughing now.

See any parallels?

Nope!

Jumping from being a VJ promoter to now...some kind of anti-union/greedy corporation rant?!?!?

I think that's called desperation on your part.

 

[verdantFOX]

Desperate? About what exactly? Is the point not valid? or are you simply trying to divert the discussion from the question at hand to a discussion of my philosophy on management/union relations. Did I not point out that both were greedy?

What exactly was your point?

 

[cameradog]

Lensmith:

At one time GM and Ford paid wages that were the envy of working class people everywhere. They were highly specialized, highly compensated, and the businesses highly profitable. That has all changed. Why, because everyone got lazy, greedy and refused to change -- both management and workers.

I dare say that at one point the unions laughed when management suggested they do more. No one is laughing now.

See any parallels?

Let's see:

A forklift driver at GM making $85K per year

vs.

A photog in Tallahassee, FL making $22K per year including overtime

...

...

...

No, I can't say I see too many parallels there, chump. The fact that you do screams that you are in management and have a stake in this whole business.

Sechrist. Definitely.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Reveal yourself, coward!
Or, is it, in revealing yourself, the illusion of credibility dies with your true name?
Tell me your true name!

I am with you on just about all your points but this one. There are many legitimate reasons a person would not want to reveal their identity. In the same message I quoted you pointed out how posting here came close to causing you large amounts of legal trouble.

Back in the early days of this board anybody, registered or not, could say anything on this forum. It got way out of control and Kevin finally decided to require registering to post, but it was reluctantly and regretfully. I have to assume it is because he too doesn't want the free discussion to be limited by fear of having the cyber discussion effect their real life.

VFox clearly would not be posting here if he had to reveal who he is, and I think the loss of opposing viewpoints would be significant. Just my thought.

 

[Lensmith]

Desperate? About what exactly? Is the point not valid? or are you simply trying to divert the discussion from the question at hand to a discussion of my philosophy on management/union relations. Did I not point out that both were greedy?

What exactly was your point?

My point was/is about your silly unparallel, parallel. It does not correlate at all to the real world which I and many others work in.

To be even clearer. No, your point is not valid and for you not to realize it speaks volumes on many levels. I don't see making a living wage as being "greedy".

I don't blame you for remaining anonymous to others...but, just as you know who I am, I know who your are as well.

But outing you here would serve no positive purpose other than to bring this discussion down a level or two...which is counter productive to what this message board is supposed to be about.

 

[Nino Giannotti]

Bam!
And Verdant is revealed to me as one of three people.
"Undercut." That was it. Found you.
Sechrist (ex-WKRN GM), Sabato (Sechrist's friend and ex-ND) or 'ol Rosenblum.

So Verdant, who are you?
Which one of the three?
Only those three would insult me so deeply, and even TRY to cut to character issues on me.
No matter what you say or do, you're still a court jester in a mask, too weak to even reveal themselves.

Maybe we should start a contest, “who is verdantFOX?”

I’m still convinced that FOX is Rosenblum, too many similarities to be just coincidences.

They are both “video blind”; both have no clue of what quality in video production is all about and what it takes to get there.

From what they write it's evident that neither one was ever involved in anything beside cheap local news.

They both praise work that anyone else with a little skill and pride would be ashamed to be associated with.

Neither one understand the importance of the relationship between rating and quality programming, this in spite of the long list of VJ’s produced programming failures and money lost by those who got involved with. This is either stubbornness or denial from both of them.

The same conversation and the very same comments about the importance of rating on this thread took place on MR blog awhile back.

They both go into personal attacks when they can not come up with a satisfactory answer.

They both have failed to show actual number and real people making a living as VJ.

They both made useless references to history when they can not come up with an intelligent answer.

They both refuse to answer questions based on statements they made.

and

They both go into hiding when they don’t have an answer.

 

[AlexLucas]

Strike a chord did I Alex/Superstar?

To my knowledge I've never met you. What I know of you comes from this board.

Yes, you have met me.
Otherwise, you wouldn't hold on.
Deny! Deny! Deny!
That's the spirit of attack.
Give them no place to land a response!

And what I see, I don't like. You are like so many others who have to justify what they do by trashing others. For argument sake, let's just say you only undercut your management. Let's see now, these are the same people who encouraged you, praised you, and held you as a model of what an employee should be.

Once again... that's straight out of mouths from three years ago, without the bile.
You're management.
When you say, "let's just say you only undercut your management."
Oh, that's management. Definitely.
You're back on it, broken record.
Your dogged insistence to defend their inner circle mentality, at all costs, over and over again, proves it. You're speaking the EXACT SAME language that I heard at WKRN when the 'Revoluionistas' came in. You're a broken record on it.

Oh, I see now why you would hate them and trash them at every opportunity. Quite the Superstar you are ole boy. But you do make a good point, anyone who would trust you the way they did deserves what they get.

You're no Superstar dude, you're just another failed VJ trying to find work.

Once again, all I hear with this is standard, freeper bull****.

Still, let's isolate a quote:
"...anyone who would trust you the way they did deserves what they get."
This is a new direction.
Oh, so I BETRAYED you?
That's the only way anyone could read that.
Could you please just cut to the chase, and start referring to yourself from here on out?

WKRN, as the incarnation that you spoke of... prosthelytized... failed.
Failed.

And that's why you go after me.
And why wouldn't you go after me?
I did more damage to the 'VJ movement' than anyone else. Period.
I am neither proud nor ashamed of that.
And how did I do it?
I answered questions people asked me.
I put a mirror behind the magician.
That's all.

So, you're back on ignore, broken record.

You lost by thinking wrong. You thought that the wheel had just been reinvented.
It hadn't. It had only gotten smaller.
Quality, and content will always count through skilled labor that matters.
We're not tending a machine that knits socks. We are commissioned to make stories, every day, and that kind of labor is difficult, time consuming, and requires a high level of expertise to not make gobbledygook.

That won't change, because at heart, we're storytellers.
Storytelling is a talent that cannot be thrust upon, and it takes diligence to do well.
That is why VJ failed. Confusing 'soft arts' with 'hard arts,' and running a television station like you were running a factory that makes plastic cups, only interested in the cost per cup.

 

[AlexLucas]

Yea Alex...real bad decision leaving WKRN for WTVF...You went from a market underdog who was "leading" a losing revolution (which has now officially lost and is no longer instated) for the market leader that continues to dominate, be revered by the public, and set the standard for quality news photography. What were you thinking?

And me being a newbie at WTVF, why did I come to a station that is a hub for great photography and editing, consistently placing in NPPA quarterlies, when there are plenty of places that would have loved to hire me as a VJ?

What were we thinking? I guess we're just wild and crazy guys, huh Alex? ...If only we would have known better!

Yah, you totally screwed up now, Redcoat.
All those great looking packages.

I am ashamed of you.

 

[verdantFOX]

Lenslinger:

I would think that anyone looking critically at the automobile industry in this nation would conclude that greed -- on both sides -- was a crucial element in the failure of the US automotive industry. When times were good, accommodations were made to unions that were antithetical to the long term success of the corporations involved. When times were good, and the money was rolling in, the corporate bosses caved on issue after issue, laying the seeds for future bankruptcy, just so they could keep the money rolling in at that moment. Management is now trying to loosen work rules to save money. They've had some success, but it's too little too late. Just ask the GM workers in Wisconsin and Ohio whose plants closed today. They are now making $0/hour.

There are undoubtedly parallels with the TV industry. Specialization works when you can afford two, three, or even four people doing the job that one person can do. When the money stops rolling in though, labor is one of the first places management goes for efficiencies. That's what VJ is about. That is exactly what I've been saying since my very first post on the topic. I completely agree that VJ is about saving money, I have never once denied that. But it's saving money in a way that IMO makes sense for management, for all the reasons I've stated.

As for a living wage. Henry Ford created a middle-class in Detroit by doubling the daily wages of his employees. By doing so he created a market for his own product. It was a stroke of genius done by a genius, not because he had any great love for the common man, but because he wanted a market for his product. The scheme worked marvelously.

Without Ford's foresight in providing his workers a living wage, his business (and this country to a large degree) would not be as prosperous as it is today. People aren't slaves and they must be fairly compensated for the work they do. Ford saw that and he saw the benefit of it to himself.

Let me absolutely clear, I strongly believe in a person's right to reasonable compensation -- yes a living wage. And I am in no way anti union. I believe companies that have unions richly deserve them.

I still have my union card. My first union job more than doubled my salary from my previous job. I could not have purchased my first home without the wages from my union job. Unions serve a critical role in balancing the power of less altruistic organizations than Henry Ford's Ford.

But most companies aren't as smart or as prescient as Ford was in the early twentieth century. Look at our industry. We're now paying a price for easy decisions in the 70s, 80s, and 90s to cave to union demands that bordered on the ludicrous (Don't touch that button, that's a union button!) just so the money could keep rolling in.

If there is any good news it's that the unions now, in some cases, have a better grasp on the needs of the future than does management. Look at IBEW here in San Francisco. Their deal with KRON was remarkably forward-looking. Instead of trying to protect narrow interests of jurisdiction, IBEW broadened the role of the photographers it represents to allow them to report. The fact that AFTRA did not stand in the way of IBEW photographers reporting is also remarkable. KRON VJs represented by IBEW now have options for the future that most people on this board would condemn them for. How anyone can be against them is beyond my capacity to understand.

No Lensmith, I'm not desperate. I just believe I have a good grasp of what is going on. Because I try to look beyond my narrow immediate interests. Do I look to the past or the experience of other industries' as relevant to our circumstances? Certainly I do. I should think I would be a fool if I did not.

If you see no lesson that can be learned by what has occurred in the auto industry, than I have no idea what you are looking at.

As for my identity. I have said numerous times that I find it useful for me to remain anonymous. This board gives one that option. If you believe you have determined who I am, than I congratulate you on your sleuthing skills. Who I am should not be at issue. What I am saying should be.

If nothing else. At least I have some people thinking.

 

[Nino Giannotti]

They've had some success, but it's too little too late. Just ask the GM workers in Wisconsin and Ohio whose plants closed today. They are now making $0/hour.

Actually, the unemployment compensation is about 50% of their salaries.......and that's at least double what the best paid VJ makes.

Also Toyota, the model of efficiency, will end the year with their very first loss, ever.

What's so wrong with workers making a decent living. Workers did not bring the profits down, they are the scapegoats of bad decisions from overpaid, incompetent and under productive management, undoubtedly a parallel with some in the TV industry.

 

[Lensmith]

As for my identity. I have said numerous times that I find it useful for me to remain anonymous. This board gives one that option. If you believe you have determined who I am, than I congratulate you on your sleuthing skills. Who I am should not be at issue. What I am saying should be.

If nothing else. At least I have some people thinking.

In an effort to be totally open on my part...Kev did ask me some time ago to be one of the moderators here at B-Roll Online which gives me a bit more information about who and where a post comes from than the average member.

Discretion on my part is in use to maintain a higher level of participation instead of outing people who may have self-serving reasons of their own for positions they take...counter to what and who they may claim to be in their posts.

Yes, it's always good for people to think.

 

[AKinDC]

Also Toyota, the model of efficiency, will end the year with their very first loss, ever.
.

There's a big difference between a loss and being a step from bankruptcy though.
The main reason the Big 3 is in this mess is because they've been making poor products that people don't want for a long period of time. The CEOs have admitted this.
I think that's an important parallel to notice...the stations that have gone OMB so far are the stations that were already bad. We haven't seen the #1 stations turning there yet.
We'll see if that happens...that's when these discussions will really get interesting.

 

[cameradog]

Look at our industry. We're now paying a price for easy decisions in the 70s, 80s, and 90s to cave to union demands that bordered on the ludicrous (Don't touch that button, that's a union button!) just so the money could keep rolling in.

Except at the majority of US television stations, which are not union.

The main reason the Big 3 is in this mess is because they've been making poor products that people don't want for a long period of time.

Is that why GM sells more cars each year than any other automobile manufacturer in the world except Toyota? Because nobody wants their cars? Gee, that's weird. All those people must be buying them because they're forced to.

 

[verdantFOX]

RightEye

That is precisely the kind of thinking that gave the GM workers $0/hour in WI and OH. Please expand on your theory. I'd love to hear how it is you think that it is more in the long term interest of employees to stand fast against new initiatives. Please give us some historical data that would indicate that would work. Or at least explain how being steadfast against the VJ transition would keep management from implementing it without the unions or around the unions.

 

[verdantFOX]

CameraDog:

You are exactly right on both points.

My only quibble is that despite the fact that GM produces high quality (that is to say competitive in that category with the rest of the world and much better quality than 20 years ago) they are still being buried by overhead. Specifically legacy costs involved with retirement pay and benefits. Those were give-aways by earlier GM management. Bad management I might add. GM can no longer afford those benefits. It is doubtful they ever could.

 

[Lenslinger]

Uncle!!!

Any chance we can establish a special forum where you guys can swing axes at each other in private? You're doing our trade no favors with this constant sniping. I'm all for the exchange of ideas - but the main players in this thread (and dozens more like it) have damaged their particular stances with infantile attacks and repetitive chest-thumping. I don't expect you guys to do nothing more than tell me to shut the eff up, but I beg of you, find another horse to beat to a bloody, senseless, twitching pulp. VJ's are nether the Great Saviors OR the spawns of Satan. Some of your rhetoric makes Rosenblum look downright rational.

Just sayin'.