Shooting with MINI DV

Status
Not open for further replies.
To all the "Pro" news photogs out there. I am a stringer in Connecticut and I own a MINI DV camera a Canon GL2 which takes excellent photos. I know this is a stupid question but I'm gunna ask it anyway. Should I be embarased when I show up at news events where there are other photogs with their pro shoulder cams? I mean do you guys, if there are others around like myself do you guys kinda laugh at us because we just have our MINI DV cams? I have great equpiment about $4,500 dollars worth Including my Camera Tripod, Mics etc.

I just get the feeling the guys who dont know me are like who are you with that handheld cam!

LoL

[ January 25, 2005, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Gallifk111 ]
 

Natural Born Stringer

Well-known member
Originally posted by Gallifk111:
Should I be embarased when I show up at news events where there are other photogs with their pro shoulder cams? I just get the feeling the guys who dont know me are like who are you with that handheld cam!
Absolutely not! There's nothing wrong with using a GL2 or similar cam for spot news! Infact the little cam can be an advantage, as many PD agencies like to corral "media" in a particular spot while letting John Q Public meander about without a problem - it's happened to me before when I would run that big betacam I used to use. With a miniDV cam, you could slip in under the radar and get the shots no one else can. As far as Joe Tape Cop is concerned, you're just a lookie loo with a handicam.

Sure, you might get some snickers from the peanut gallery, but when you get the shot they couldn't then they won't be laughing much after that.

Here's a classic example: Went out on a high speed chase once that ended with the bad guys literally cutting their stolen car in half around a telephone pole, killing all inside. Real nasty. I had staged where I guessed the car would go and some of the overnight staffers had guessed same as me. Meanwhile the Hi-8 guy saw us there and decided to pick a different spot. As a result, he was there within seconds of the car getting torn in two - he was literally setting up the cam when it happened. A second or two sooner and he might have actually caught it on tape!

Naturally, the cops sealed off the whole area and kept all of us out for half an hour but they let the Hi-8 guy remain. Result? He got all the shots of the bodies being pulled out, the car being cleared, FD hosing it down so it wouldn't explode, everything. He sold to everyone that night and I got squat, despite my big expensive beta. So when it comes to stringing, WHERE YOU ARE is much more important than what format you shoot. That was not an easy lesson for me to learn...but it stuck.

Think of it this way. If you gave a betacam to a chimpanzee, the results would be no different than if you had given him a handicam. There are times when the bigger better camera is needed, but for shooting typical spot news footage, the GL2 will work just fine. Just ask RichVid, he shot a water rescue that went national on his GL2. Plus, due to the lower maintenance costs involved and ease of use, it's a good choice for most stringers. I intend to go MiniDV myself for my next cam - the betacam was just a maintenance hassle, and overkill for what I was using it for.

So let 'em laugh. When their cam is in the shop AGAIN, you'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
 

RichVid

Well-known member
Yep...I shoot quite a bit with a GL2 here in #2 market - I hook up to remote trucks all the time and every so often I shoot next to a staffer - I haven't been laughed at yet...To the contrary, alot of the folks marvel at the quality of video -That doesn't mean it's the answer for every application, but for the run and gun rigors of the stringer, it's a good choice (see also Sony VX2100 and equivalents, Panasonic DVC-30 and 80, etc).

This weekend, I was shooting next to a CBSer with a Panny shoulder cam...we were the only ones at a deputy-involved shooting in which an old man with a death wish shot two waitresses inside a Norm's Restaurant at 5AM and then engaged the deputies when they arrived (He got killed)...After we got our stuff, I split and fed tape (I had another incident that occurred earlier CBS was interested in) - Since the earlier incident and this shooting were on the same reel, I fed them both at the same time (since the other stations all wanted the restaurant shooting too). I never thought CBS would take in the restaurant shooting since their own camera person was there ... For some unknown reason, CBS used my footage in their VO about this caper...No one at the Desk knew why, but they logged it...How about that? A paltry GL2 vs. the 20K DVCPro and they use the GL2 stuff! In this business, you never know!

Sometimes I make fun of the GL2 with station personnel, but that's usually done to cover up some shortcoming caused by me and not to be blamed on the camera ;)

[ January 25, 2005, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: RichVid ]
 

SeagateNews

Well-known member
No, GL2s are terrible for spot news. Spend the money and go Betacam, then give your GL2 to me. jk :D

I used to feel the same way, only my handycam was a JVC VHS-C...and I was driving around on a moped. I never had any staffers poke fun at me that I know of (I can't say the same for my friends).

I shot a store fire a looong time ago on that camera, and recently ran into one of the staffers that was on the scene when his station did a story on my freelancing. Since then, I've also seen him at an apartment fire. It almost shows, in my case, how determined I really am.

[ January 25, 2005, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Seagate News ]
 

Natural Born Stringer

Well-known member
A moped? Oh that's nothing...this will crack you up...

There was one time when a big ripping fire went out...I went to start the car and it was dead - I had left my inverter on and drained the battery. Damn! It's 3AM, there's no hope of getting a jump start at this hour from a neighbor and roadside assistance on it had expired some 65,000 miles ago. But I was determined to get my story as it was only about 2 miles away from me. So I hopped on my trusty Diamondback mountainbike with my betacam slung over my shoulder. Talk about a sight.... that was a LONG TWO MILES! I had everyone from bums to cops giving me some really odd looks, especially at stoplights. And I hadn't noticed before, but this particular street was slightly uphill for most of the way. Just my luck.

It took me 15 minutes to make the trip at full speed and I was exhausted when I got there, which made holding the camera steady a near impossible feat (of course I opted not to bring sticks, to save weight). Oh did I catch hell from the staffers when they saw me ride up... "Life sucks without a car!" and "Uh oh, better get MAACO!" plus other sarcastic remarks and good natured ribbing. One guy slayed the crowd when he told me I should put a mast on the thing and make it into a "live bike". This remark had even the PIO near tears from laughter. Boy, did I feel stupid... but I just laughed along with 'em and even made a sale to the spanish station that was down the road from my house at the time.

Needless to say, I chose to stay home from then on if I was having car problems. :D
 

RichVid

Well-known member
Wow I woulda thought you were a burglary suspect for sure riding down the dark street on your two-wheeler with a big 'ole betacam slung over your shoulder!
 
Hey everyone, I feel alot better now :).
I'm about to do a story on a National bicycle race that has been coming to the Danbury CT area for the last 3 years. cyclists form all over the world come here to race in the Housatinic Valley Classic Natl Bike Race. But this year it may not happen because thay are about 150,000 dollars short of monies to hold this event.

Anyone know John Eustice? He actually called my house to comment on the story, hes one of the race organizers. He's a famous sports reporter on OLN and ESPN.

It was cool I'll let you know how it goes!
 

Terry E. Toller

Well-known member
Just remember that a camera is a tool. A good photog can use a GL2 and get great results while a bad photog can use a Betacam and shoot crap.

If you conduct yourself like a pro and stick to good, sound shooting principals, you will do fine with the GL2.

I was on a shoot for the National Parks a couple of years ago and our rented Betacam broke down in the middle of nowhere, along the Oregon Trail in Kansas. The producer wanted to quit and go home. I talked him into letting me shoot with my GL1 for just one day.

I borrowed a horse from a woman who kept getting thrown and rode out onto the prarie to shoot a reenactment of a wagon train on the trail. That night I played the footage back on a 13 inch monitor and he loved it. We finished the week long shoot with mini DV shot with a GL1.

And for shooting spot news, I can't see beating up a Betacam. I did for years then got smart and shoot the cop beat with the GL1. I miss being able to shoot in low light but for every day spot news, it works fine.

I have even shot several assignments for Good Morning America with the GL1. They had absolutely no problems with it. I did dub the video to Betacam but only for their editing purposes...

Just remember, it's not the size of the wand, it's the skill of the magician...

[ January 29, 2005, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Terry E. Toller ]
 

SeagateNews

Well-known member
I just shot today for a station shooting on BetaSP...when I showed the video, they began a debate on whether or not to tag it as 'amateur video' because they were all excited that I USED A TRIPOD. The photog from that station who was on the scene shot his own stuff, but only used mine cuz it was good enough...although it did take us an hour to figure out a way to dub it over...

And all shot on a ONE-CCD Panasonic MiniDV POSCam...

[ January 31, 2005, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Seagate News ]
 

C St. SW

Well-known member
Originally posted by Seagate News:
The photog from that station who was on the scene shot his own stuff, but only used mine cuz it was good enough...
And what exactly did you get that the staff photog didn't get?

I had an EP once that LOVED to use "home viewer" video over our own stuff even when we were on scene in plenty of time to get flames, etc. and our video was MUCH better. It got so bad, I told him one day to stop pulling me off my main story to shoot spot news when he wouldn't use it!
 

SeagateNews

Well-known member
The fire...I was there minutes after the call went out; got the FD ventilating the roof and windows with smoke pouring out...

I've run into this photog at numerous scenes, and part of the reason he aired it is that he's helping me to break into the biz...

[ January 31, 2005, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Seagate News ]
 

canuckcam

Well-known member
Unless you have a fairly recent camera head, I'm sure the low-light capabilities of a PD-170 handycam would beat most shoulder cameras.

Granted, the GL1 isn't exactly known for its uber-low-light capabilities.
 
I

imported_blank

Guest
Originally posted by phillypulse:
Unless you have a fairly recent camera head, I'm sure the low-light capabilities of a PD-170 handycam would beat most shoulder cameras.

Granted, the GL1 isn't exactly known for its uber-low-light capabilities.
I'm not sure what you mean by """fairly recent camera head"""
OK I don't know about the PD170 but I can assure you that a """NINE YEAR OLD""" DNW-7 SX walks all over a PD150 or DSR250 in low light. Trust me on this, real world experience with a nine year old DNW-7 side by side with a PD150. You barely have to gain the DNW-7, meaning no major Signal to Noise drop and the DNW-7 turns night into day. Well almost. Don't take my word - talk to a cameraman at CTV, I believe they have DNW-7s in all major markets.

Try it yourself. Then report back here.
You will notice that you have to gain the PD150 a whole lot more - you will loose chroma, gain noise and if you hit a light source like cop car cherries - you will get major smearing.
The DNW-7 will have no noticeable smearing, very little noise or chroma loss.
Try it yourself. Then report back here.

The new (2003) version DNW-7/2 SX will do even better. New CCDs with a rating of 2000 lux at F13. The nine year old DNW-7 will only do 2000 lux at F11. But that's only a spec. Specs aside the gain on the SX is about 50 times cleaner then the gain on a PD150. Smearing is almost non existent unlike on the tiny 1/3 chips of the PD150 which will streak like hell in low light (hitting a light source like cop cherries.

I don't care what anyone will claim. I tried it myself.

There are many heads by both Pany and Sony that will match the DNW-7 (Run and Gun ENG cams.).

So do you call a nine year old camera head fairly recent?
 

canuckcam

Well-known member
Actually, I do consider an SX camera "recent."
... I have yet to see any freelancer shoot on SX!

My JVC DV500 miniDV has a rating of f11 at 2000lux. But for the price of entry, like what SeagateNews is trying to do, I think starting out on a PD-170 would be better money spent than buying an older Beta.

And good point on the smearing, Ivan, I didn't think about that. XDCAMs... how can you get them to smear! :)
 

RichVid

Well-known member
I used to try and defend the current 3 chip handycams against the bigger pro-cams...But I can't anymore...all I know is, they shoot well enough to make $$$ for a percentage of what a cam like a DNW-series costs and that's just gonna have to be good enuff...

Rich
----------------------------------------------
"I'm not a cameraman; I'm a stringer!"
 
I

imported_blank

Guest
Hi Phil

"""... I have yet to see any freelancer shoot on SX!"""

How long you been in Canada?
Not talking about stringers here but while most Canadian TV camera freelancers who own usually possess Beta SP - to be compatable with both SX and SP shops covering ninety percent of Canada)

BUT

There are plenty of Owners who own SX. For instance take a look at b-roll's freelance directory - type in CANADA and the first page with ten freelancers pops up and half (5) of those first ten shoot primarily on SX.
I find it odd that in Canada you have yet to meet a FL who shoots on SX

------------------------------------------------

Anyway,
My point wasn't to get seagate into an SX. My point was that broadcast cameras have very low light capabilities --- for a decade now.

Maybe Seagate should look into this camera.
AG-DVC60

Shoulder-Mount Camcorder with IEEE 1394 Interface
$2,800 US.
Probably not as good as a PD150 more likely in the GL2 class
but
less money then a PD150 and shoulder mount, even XLR.
 

RichVid

Well-known member
These DVC60's do look good... They essentially are a DVC30 dressed up with XLRs and other more "Pro" attributes...this setup is very similar to when Sony came out with the DSR200 sometime back in like what...1997? It was essentially an old VX1000 with XLR audio and the option to add batteries via it's "bigbox" system... Anyway, the DVC30 is about comparable to a GL2 as far as sensitivity...(both use 1/4 " ccds with close to the same # of pixels)...I think the optical zoom on both the DVC60 and DVC30 is only in the 12X range with the GL2 topping out at 20X...but no stock XLR inputs on the Canon...Street price for these things is around $2100

http://profeel.com/agdvc60.htm

Rich (not advertising for the above link, just as a reference - I've bought from them before with no probs tho)

[ February 01, 2005, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: RichVid ]
 

RichVid

Well-known member
It's all apples and oranges...As I've said, I love my little GL2...here's a comparison of the DVC30 (same head as that on the 60) and the GL2 from camcorderinfo.com (just a portion of the review):

Comparisons (no score provided)

The AG-DVC30 fairs well when compared to other cameras. When compared to the GL-2, the AG-DVC30 comes out on top because of it's superior low light performance, manual control and customization options and it's more rugged feel. These types of cameras excel at blending pro features with the compact size of consumer cameras. The AG-DVC30 is housed in a sturdy magnesium chassis and feels rugged whereas the GL-2 is plastic.

When compared to the excellent Sony DCR-VX2100 in low light performance, the AG-DVC30 produced images that were darker, but it was just as sharp. The DCR-VX2100 however shoots much better in low light. The DCR-VX2100 is all around a better camcorder offering better manual control and better optics.

Conclusion

The AG-DVC30 exists in a field of very competive and quality camcorders. It's a great model, however it has to stand up to some pretty rugged competition. The Canon GL-2 and the Sony DCR-TRV950 / DSR-PDX10 are its two main competitors although the DCR-VX2100 also has a similar price point and is thus comparable. While the AG-DVC30 is a better buy than the Sony DCR-TRV950 and the Canon GL2, which share similar chip sizes (the DCR-TRV950 has 1/4.7 in CCDs), it is also about $500 more expensive. The AG-DVC30 however fails when compared to the similarly priced DCR-VX2100 with 1/3 in. CCDs.


I don't necessarily think this cam outshoots the Canon either, but it just shows how much differing info there is out there that can confuse everyone...
 

SeagateNews

Well-known member
I was looking at the DVC60's, since I shoot with a DVC7 right now I'd have the feel for it...

...but after an experience with an apartment fire and slow-motion gain up, I'm really worried about low-light situations, since I'm hoping to do overnight stuff when summer hits. To make matters worse, I'm doin the car payment thing AND I'm waiting for a call back from and ND about freelancing...if he says yes, I'll have to upgrade soon...

One station in our market uses the Panny DVX100, so I'm also looking into the DVC80.

[ February 01, 2005, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Seagate News ]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top