Need help adapting from Avid to Premiere

[tarzan]

In one of our edit bays, our engineers just installed a Mac computer that has Adobe Premiere Pro on it. Latest I heard was that they'll eventually replace all our Avids with Premiere as part of our transition to HD. So for now I'm dabbling around in the Premiere, reading the help sections, looking at some of the tuturials, and last night did a practice edit of a package with raw P2 files that I had already used to edit a package on Avid earlier that night. Doing that helps me to come up with questions I might have about how I can do certain things in Premiere that I'm used to being able to do in Avid. I'm sure I'll eventually be able to figure most of them out through product support, but thought I'd throw these questions out to anyone on this forum who has worked with BOTH Avid and Premiere and might know the answers:

1. When I edit using P2 clips in Avid, the first thing I usually do is arrange all the P2 clips in the order in which they were shot, select them all, and drag them into the timeline to create a raw sequence. I use that as an overall source sequence, mainly to make it easier for the reporter to log, but sometimes I also drag that raw sequence into the source monitor and edit from it into my package timeline, rather than clicking into 55 different individual clips in my bin. In order for this to work for both logging and editing, I need for this raw sequence to show the source timecode (timecode of the original clips). In Avid, I can do that by right-clicking on the counter display next to the monitor on the interface, and navigating through the drop-down list to select "V1" as the counter display. Does Premiere have a way to do that? There does seem to be a counter display next to the monitors, but right clicking them doesn't give me those same display options that Avid does.

2. In Avid, if I right-click on the timeline, a drop-down menu gives me options to do several things, including "Add Filler At Start", "Find Flash Frame", and "Find Black Hole". Can Premiere do that, and if so, how?

3. In Avid, if I have, lets say, 20 clips in a row, and I want the channel 2 audio to be set to -20 dB on all of them, I can put an "in" point somewhere in the first clip and and "out" point in the last clip, go to the audio mixer tool, set ch2 in any one of those clips to -20 and then click on a drop-down in that tool to select "set level in-out". Can Premiere do that? How?

4. In Avid, if I have lets say, 20 clips in a row, and I want to apply the same size dissolve on all 19 cuts between them, I can put and in point somewhere in the first clip and and outpoint in the last clip. Then when I apply a dissolve to one of the cuts, the dissolve window gives me an option "apply to all transitions in-out" and "skip existing transitions." Click OK and in one easy step it puts dissolves in all 19 cuts that are between the in and out points. Can Premiere do that? How?

5. In Avid, if I want to chop off the end or beginning of a soundbite or track, I can in most Avid keyboard settings I can do that with the "P" and "]" buttons, and then it just snaps the rest of the stuff on the sequence up to where I'd made the cut. How can I do that in Premiere?

I'm sure I'll think of other questions as I go along, but hopefully some of you can help me with those five.

 

[svp]

One advantage using AVID over other NLE's is all the keyboard shortcuts that aren't available on other NLE's. It was one thing I liked better about AVID than FCP. I know it's not your call but I'm amazed your station went with MACs but not FCP. Interesting. As far as transitioning, it's a learning curve. I know AVID, Adobe, and FCP and they are all different when it comes to shortcuts. It just takes time.

 

[Necktie Boy]

SVP,

FCP 7 is dead. They could have gone FCPX, but many don't like it.

Tazran,

Premiere does do some of the stuff that you are asking about.


Yes, you can "storyboard" on the browers and drop the footage on the timeline.

Start filler? Unlike Avid, you can start at any place on the timeline. The blank space is played back as black. Don't know about the other ones. Been off Avid for a few years.

Add the effect to the one clip. Copy the clip. Select the other 29 clips. Right click to Paste. A dialog box will open, it will allow you to copy the effect to the other clips.

No group dissolves. Control-D is default dissolve. You move to each beginning of the clip to add it. Use keyboard commnands to move alone. I think it's Page up/down.

No don't about the P and J...I will have to test that...Razor blade will do that...

Not in front of Premiere...And what version? I am using CS 5.5

You can map the keyboard to look like Avid...

 

[Necktie Boy]

More on Premiere...

You can only see source TC in Preview. When clips are on the timeline, you receive new TC.

For trimming, use the razor blade or just slide the clip to the point that you want to delete.


Hope that helps

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

You can map the keyboard to mimic Avid. Its in the settings.

 

[tarzan]

You can only see source TC in Preview. When clips are on the timeline, you receive new TC.
For trimming, use the razor blade or just slide the clip to the point that you want to delete.
Hope that helps

I know that I can see source TC when a CLIP is in preview, but if I drag a sequence into preview there's no way to show source TC?

Speaking of trimming, I've been playing with the trim and stretch tools, trying to figure out how to trim just the video channel of a clip, or just the audio channel, but the tool always seems to grab both the audio and video channels, even though I have the audio channel turned off and I have the channels unlinked. What the @#!$ is going on with that?

 

[Necktie Boy]

Confused? Sequence? You can only see clips in the preview(source monitor). Sequences(timelines) can only be seen on the Program monitor. You can't get a sequence to play in the preview monitor.

If you mean that the timeline played back on the program monitor(Right screen), no, you can't see original TC since the timeline creates a new TC.

 

[Necktie Boy]

Also, Premiere Pro on-line help/manual can answer many of your questions. You can access the manual from the help menu.

 

[Shoeless]

Right click on the clip and hit "Unlink" and you should be able to trim audio and video independantly

 

[tarzan]

Confused? Sequence? You can only see clips in the preview(source monitor). Sequences(timelines) can only be seen on the Program monitor. You can't get a sequence to play in the preview monitor.

Necktie: in Avid, if you click and drag a sequence icon from the bin into the preview monitor, you CAN play the sequence in the preview monitor AND edit from it into another sequence that's in the timeline. So, YES YOU CAN. I've done it thousands of times. The only time the editing part of that doesn't work is if the sequence in the source monitor has transitions in it and your in or out point is on one of those transitions.

You can also similarly click-drag a sequence icon into the preview monitor in Premiere, trust me, it works, try it. -But as I said before, Premiere doesn't seem to allow you to see the source clips of a sequence in either preview OR program, like it does in Avid.

 

[tarzan]

Thank you Shoeless for your answer on the unlinking of the clip components. So how do I link them up again if I decide that I do want to grab them together?

Next question on something completely different: In Avid, there's a quick button you can have on your interface that allows you to quickly toggle between mono playback and stereo playback. When it's in stereo it shows as two red dots and when it's in mono it's one yellow dot, and when it's set to playback and display levels of four audio channels all individually, it's four blue dots. Does Premiere have any such button or keyboard shortcut? So far the only way I've been able to get Premiere to play in stereo is to go to the audio mixer and turn the dials at the top all the way left for one channel and all the way right for the other. Not as quick as the Avid yellow-dot/red-dots button.

 

[Necktie Boy]

Tarzan,

I have an older version of Xpress Pro HD that I use rarely. Some of the commands are there and not. Sounds like you were using NewsCutter. Not fully familiar with it, but it was made for cutting news. So, some features may be only in that version.

Back to Premiere. I use CS5.5 version. I cannot drop a sequence into the source window. I can drop a sequence into the program window if I already have a sequence on the timeline. I even imported another project with a few sequences....Can't drop it into the source window.

So, you are using CS6 with new features....Or you are confusing the "source" and "program" window in Premiere. Or confusing sequence with footage.

A sequence is an icon with 3 tracks and time maker. Footage icon has a frame of the footage.

Premiere doesn't seem to allow you to see the source clips of a sequence in either preview OR program, like it does in Avid.

If you footage is on the timeline(sequence), you can double click on each clip, and it will show up in source window, not in the program window

 

[tarzan]

Tarzan,

Back to Premiere. I use CS5.5 version. I cannot drop a sequence into the source window.

Wow. I didn't realize CS5.5 was that crappy. Next time I go into work I'm going to check that out on one of the CS5.5's that the promotions people have to see for myself. Hard to believe.

So, you are using CS6 with new features....Or you are confusing the "source" and "program" window in Premiere. Or confusing sequence with footage.

Yes, I'm using CS6. Nope, not confusing anything. I can drop a sequence (a series of clips that forms a timeline) into the source monitor AND edit from it. Only time I can't edit from sequence into timeline is if edit point is in the middle of a transition, or if the same sequence is in both the preview monitor AND in the timeline, because logically you can't edit a sequence into itself.

Premiere doesn't seem to allow you to see the source clips of a sequence in either preview OR program, like it does in Avid.

If you footage is on the timeline(sequence), you can double click on each clip, and it will show up in source window, not in the program window

Nah, that doesn't do me any good for what I want to do, but thanks anyway.

I think what I'll have to do is just tell the reporter to log with that timecode that the sequence generates and edit from the sequence based on that.

 

[Shocker]

Tarzan,

You can edit from a sequence in CS5.5. I works just like AVID Newscutter. Select the clips you want and drop them into a new sequence. The new sequence can be loaded into the source monitor and edited as if it is a clip.

Back to your original question. You are correct. Premiere doesn't show camera time code when editing from a sequence. It is like using "absolute" time code in Newscutter.

 

[Shoeless]

I believe its just a matter of selecting both clips, right clipping and hitting "link"..or "group"

 

[Necktie Boy]

You can drop a rendered sequence back into a timeline and view in the soruce monitor. It's not that crapy.

I do have to admit that your workflow is a bit strange, but if it works, do it

Why not use the P2 Viewer to log TC?

 

[tarzan]

I've run into another snag:
When trying to edit from a "raw" sequence that I've created and dragged into the source monitor, when I make the edits, this source sequence behaves like all one clip, with both audio channels mixed together, and the source column shows as having only one source audio channel. In avid you can edit from a sequence that's in the source monitor, and the resulting edits in the timeline show up as the source clips from that source sequence, AND you can control whether you're taking from only channel 1 source or only channel 2 source. So far from what I've been able to figure out on Premiere, you can't do that. If that's truly the case that you can't edit specific audio channels from the source sequence, I'm really going to be piping mad, because I've spent the past 5 yrs editing from raw source sequence to master sequence in Avid. To me it's been much easier and faster than clicking into individual clips in the bin to see WTF is in them. PLEEEEAAAASE someone out there tell me that there's a way to make that source sequence behave the same way it does when you edit from it in Avid???? Because if not, it's got to be the stupidest most (inappropriate term) thing I've ever seen.

 

[tarzan]

One other issue:
At other stations where I've worked where we were introduced to a new technology, usually someone from the company that makes that technology comes to our station and spends a entire day, if not several days, training us and answering as many of our questions as possible. -But at this current station where we're in the process of converting to Premiere, they brought in a guy who used to work at our place but now works at a local production company, and he spent about an hour with each of us just teaching us the raw basics of how to open a project, and raw editing basics. I think the ND is under the impression that based on that, we're all fully trained and ready to edit on Premiere. I don't think we're going to receive any more formal training from a human in person. Of course the previous times when stations I worked for brought in someone to train us, whether it was on Tektronix or Avid, that was a while back, when internet tutorials weren't as plentiful as they are now, so I'm wondering if they're just expecting us to be able to learn ourselves based on Adobe help files and internet tutorials.

So, I'm just wondering, what has the training for this sort of thing (new NLE system) been like at other stations. Am I complaining too much and being a crybaby if I bring up at a meeting that we need real training, not just the one hour intro class we got from that guy?

 

[tarzan]

No group dissolves.

-HaHA! You're WRONG! I figured it out last week. (Well, didn't really figure it out, someone on Adobe message board told me) You select the whole track of clips you want to apply dissolves to. Then you go to "sequence" menu, and select "apply default transitions to selection."

 

[eb]

Pros and Cons

I use AVID at work and Adobe PPro CS6 at home. I also create a raw sequence (on avid) and edit from it. Easy. But on Adobe, had a problem.
Set up your keyboard settings first. I have a Bella keyboard that has a few extra things like toggle knob.

One thing I (think I) learned trying to EDIT from a Sequence: I created a raw sequence, then edited from it (on other sequences.) Then later, I went back and made some changes to my Raw sequence. Well that changed the timecode of the raw sequence I guess... and therefore all of my other sequences were screwed up. All the edits were shifted. Ouch. So... I THINK the raw sequence does not act the same as in AVID. Correct me if I am wrong, but the individual clips do not maintain their "individual time code /clip reference" after putting them in a raw sequence. If you edit from a sequence...that sequence becomes the reference point. Changes (edits) to the raw sequence, will show up in your PKG seqence. Ouch. Hope that makes sense. I am not 100 percent about this, because it was a year ago when I thought this happened. Perhaps I screwed something else up.

As for grabbing, extending only your VIDEO portion of a clip (and not the audio) I think you can just hold down the ALT key or CONTROL key and it will select only what you highlight. (If your keyboard is set up that way I suppose.) So highlight the clip while holding down the control key, then grab and slide the video.

The pros of Adobe are the user interface - how you can grab video and audio and extend by sliding the clip. Adobe also works with all codecs better. You can put any codec into the timeline and edit. I believe AVID only works with avid media files in the timeline. Can't remember all the technical details. I am not a tech person.

ADOBE has a good user forum. If you haven't gone there, do it...a lot of people might be able to help.