"Massive" ABC cuts coming...

Michaelrosenblum said:
This was and remains inevitable.
It's a function of the technology and the fractionalization of audiences and revenues.
A culling is coming, and if you are smart you will get the skill set now that makes you indisposable. That means shooting, editing, writing and producing.
This is going to happen everywhere and only continue.
Sorry.
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Well Michael, why don't you use the new found enlightenment you mentioned in the Nat Geo thread and tell ABC that this is a terrible idea which can only lead to lower morale, lower ratings and the part they will be most concerned about - lower revenue.

Warren
 
iHD said:
Those are all valid points. However, local guys all find a way to do all of that without the sound guy. Does it make the photogs job tougher? Absolutely. But can you really justify the networks spending an extra million or so dollars a year on sound guy salaries and hiring freelance sound guys just to make your life a little easier? Would I like to have a sound guy? Sure, it makes life very easy. But in reality a good photog CAN handle both jobs him/herself.
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Seriously, the move from a seven man crew to a three man crew is the big cost savings.

The fact that the network ships three or four people instead of a hojillion is where the money will be saved, NOT in the sound man.

Also, the question of whether local news uses scrims and reflectors, the answer is this, no local news organization, in my fifteen years, has ever bought me anything but a open face light, and never a scrim. Reflectors are handheld, and they're tiny (tiny = useless).

Just because we don't set them up, it doesn't mean that we wouldn't use it.
At my shop, you have to justify NOT bringing a light kit in with a sit-down, and you must also justify NOT using a tripod.
Give me five great network shooters, and my five best from MY shop, and we'll see who wins.
I think you'll be surprised.
 
prosheditor said:
I can't tell you how many PAs I've seen on reality shows and other well funded projects that worked their butts off doing crappy work for crappy pay while considerable money was frivolously spent on other non-critical items or services.
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In my opinion, digging a ditch is crappy work. Building a barbed wire fence or hauling square hay bales is crappy work. Hooking up XLR cables or holding a reflector isn't really all that crappy. It is entirely possible that the PA's I've been around have different responsibilities than the ones you've been around...but there are a lot of worse things they could be doing.

Sorry to be a bit off-topic, but I would rather hold a betacam on my shoulder all day long on top of drag racing blacktop in the middle of August than haul hay like I did when I was a young pup. Or work at McDonalds, for that matter...retail and fast-food workers really do get the shaft...
 
code20photog said:
I find the unions to be a root of the problem.
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Uh, don't leave us hangin'. Why do you believe that? Are you in a union?

iHD said:
I don't know, they sure seem to be working out for all those auto workers in Detroit. Oh, wait, 50% unemployment. My bad. But TV unions are different. Oh wait, NBC, CBS, now ABC. Gosh darnit, it has to be a coincidence.
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Those are poor examples. Are you in a union?

Unions cannot protect members from job loss because of cutbacks. In times of cutbacks, unions provide and enforce sets of rules the company must abide by per the contract both entities agreed upon. Never do those rules say anything remotely like, "You cannot cut any of our employees." For the most part, rules say something like, "Cuts must come from the bottom, up." That is, they have to start with the guy who has the least time on as a staffer and work their way up from there.

Here in Chicago, NABET is fighting the local NBC on their "content producer" positions. NBC eliminated union staff and created non-union jobs. NABET contends that the non-union jobs violate the terms of the contract between NBC and NABET and that the job functions performed by NBC's content producers are NABET jurisdiction.

If NBC cut staff and didn't hire anyone to fill in the empty positions, there's nothing the local union can do.

iHD said:
Meanwhile FOX, predominately non-union, is flourishing.
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Wrong. Of all the major outlets here in Chicago, Fox was the first to cut staff. They've also had multiple rounds of cuts, more than any other shop. In fact, rumors are that Fox is about to begin another round of cuts in the coming months. Generally, the same is true in most other cities.

After reading your responses to unions, I have a hard time believing that either of you belong to a union. In which case, how can you feel justified in drawing such rash generalizations about unions?

Baltimore Shooter said:
Well Michael, why don't you use the new found enlightenment you mentioned in the Nat Geo thread and tell ABC that this is a terrible idea which can only lead to lower morale, lower ratings and the part they will be most concerned about - lower revenue.
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I was thinking the exact same thing. Further proof that Mike is not a visionary pioneer: he's a sleazy opportunist.
 
iHD said:
No, and I thank God for that.
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Then your entire argument is invalidated.

Your opinion is yours. If you want to cast stones and call unions "stupid," go right ahead.

However, your opinion suffers greatly when you don't have first-hand knowledge of what you're talking about. Coupled with the fact that you're spouting your ill-informed opinion on a forum that undoubtedly has a large number of members and visitors who are union members -- and you look just plain silly.

We've seen a memo released by ABC and leaked to professional forums.

1. You don't have any knowledge of what's happening behind the scenes.
2. You don't know if any unions plan to fight or are fighting this transition.

How is it you can draw such elaborate, snarky claims when you don't know most of the story? It makes you sound extremely bitter.
 
code20photog said:
A tip, I like to have most of my equipment ready to go when stowed in the van. Knuckle already on the scrim, 1K light with the cord and a extension attached, already on a stand, sandbags by the back door, so I can get everything set up without trying to find everything when you're crashing.
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Of course when you're in the same city every day yes you can do that, I do that myself, but when you're in Atlanta for 2 days then find yourself in Miami, then in Havana like a network photog can, I'm guessing you're going to have to break stuff down and crate it up for airline abuse. Having traveled a lot for a local station I can tell you that is a whole other beast that most local photogs don't face on a regular basis, and can be a complete pain, and I would travel with probably 1/10th of what a network crew travels with.
 
Brock Samson said:
In my opinion, digging a ditch is crappy work. Building a barbed wire fence or hauling square hay bales is crappy work. Hooking up XLR cables or holding a reflector isn't really all that crappy. It is entirely possible that the PA's I've been around have different responsibilities than the ones you've been around...but there are a lot of worse things they could be doing.

Sorry to be a bit off-topic, but I would rather hold a betacam on my shoulder all day long on top of drag racing blacktop in the middle of August than haul hay like I did when I was a young pup. Or work at McDonalds, for that matter...retail and fast-food workers really do get the shaft...
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The other day someone at my office deflected a conversation about a failure by saying, "I work hard!"
That was from the assignment desk. I had to hold down my laughter/dripping sarcasm in that situation.
Honestly, we're in television. We don't work hard. We work long hours, we work well fighting traffic, life, and distractions, but the phrase 'television is hard work' should never apply.

Simply put, it's not that hard. Detassling corn is hard work. Working construction in the snow is hard work.

TV? NOT HARD WORK.
I'm with Brock Samson on this one.
 
iHD said:
Well, if you'd been paying attention to any of the post in this thread you'd know we're talking about networks, not local affiliates owned by networks. And from what I understand, this ABC cut has to do with network cuts, not ABC O&O cuts. That's why I said FOX is predominately, not entirely, non-union because I know some FOX O&O affiliates are union shops. My comment centers around FOX NEWS. They are flourishing. Probably because I've never seen a FOX network crew of more than 4. At CPAC, I counted 3 (talent, photog, & producer) at their setup for live hits. Same thing in the Cannon and Russell rotundas in DC. All the other networks always have at least 2 or 3 at their setups for live talkbacks with members of Congress. FOX always has 1 and they do it just as good, if not better, than the other three.
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I agree that FOX News works bare bones, but that has less to do with ratings than the fact that they don't need nearly as many resources as say NBC News, because they are a talk show driven network. And you can't separate FOX News and their O&Os because Roger Ailes runs the whole show. Fox O&O's also ran bare bones and that didn't shield them from massive lay offs.

However I totally agree that NABET and IBEW and IATSE are all useless shells of their former selves. They sold out employees years ago so what is the point. I worked at two union shops and watched the most useless, lazy, old bastards get away with murder while me and the all the other perma-lancers worked our asses off for no benefits and still got taken off the schedule for long periods so that we couldn't claim to be full time employees. As far as I am concerned most Unions are an anachronism to a time before state and federal laws protected workers from abuse. This 2010, I don't need to pay NABET to give me what state law already requires employers to give me.
 
Few do.
Unions are for lazy folks who would rather pay dues for secuity than compete or work for it. Hence the low hourly rates involved.
I can tell ya here in STL, union wages pay less than 30 bucks an hour for shooting.
At the risk of sounding like Nino... mmmm, no thanks.

good ole boys clubs are not designed to increase productivity.

While many threads are started here stating how ratings are up and profits are following, as Michael mentioned, this is simply a trend we are all gonna have to get use to. Networks and TV stations are hurting and evolving much slower than profit requires.
Lay offs first.. then closings.
so be it.
 
Brock Samson said:
In my opinion, digging a ditch is crappy work. Building a barbed wire fence or hauling square hay bales is crappy work. Hooking up XLR cables or holding a reflector isn't really all that crappy. It is entirely possible that the PA's I've been around have different responsibilities than the ones you've been around...but there are a lot of worse things they could be doing.

Sorry to be a bit off-topic, but I would rather hold a betacam on my shoulder all day long on top of drag racing blacktop in the middle of August than haul hay like I did when I was a young pup. Or work at McDonalds, for that matter...retail and fast-food workers really do get the shaft...
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Okay, I wasn't specific but I meant them being go'fers, cleaners and doing other than production related work. I think most PAs want to learn about production rather than be personal servants. However, if the job description says they'll be cleaning and making coffee and they take it, then what can they say? I've been a PA and have gotten friends on projects as PAs with the intent of learning about production and they were treated badly and made to do unrelated work. I felt really bad about. Even worse is when someone is hired as a PA and when the XPs are in a bind they want them to shoot or even "field produce" for a PA rate. Then to top it all off after they've pounded yours and others' rates into the ground, as I stated earlier you see them blow money on frivolous non-critical items or services. :rolleyes:
 
Chicago Dog said:
Are you in a union?
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Yes I am, IBEW. I send my check in every month and that's the extent of it.

My experience with Unions, is that they often work for higher wages without taking into account the bigger picture. (Look at the UAW, they've destroyed the auto industry. My American car built in Mexico will attest to that. )

I will say that I get payed a pretty high hourly wage for what I do, and that's thanks to the union. But, I will also say, I do less work, easily half, for nearly $50 an hour than I did for $11.50 at my last small market station. On the surface, those high wages are great, until you get laid off because those same high wages have bankrupted the company. I'd do my job for 10%, even up to 20% less, if it guaranteed I'd have a job the rest of the year.

I was also a board member of a union when I was a paramedic. I won't say which one, but the corruption I saw, the back alley deals, the embezzlement, the flat out lies the national reps told the members, the backlash the employees had to endure as the company fought everything the union did. The union pushed for a 1-day strike to protest for higher wages. Funny, everyone who walked on the picket line got fired within 2 weeks,


And my wife's a teacher. Her union did nothing to keep her from getting a layoff letter.
 
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OffSticks said:
. I worked at two union shops and watched the most useless, lazy, old bastards get away with murder while me and the all the other perma-lancers worked our asses off for no benefits and still got taken off the schedule for long periods so that we couldn't claim to be full time employees. As far as I am concerned most Unions are an anachronism to a time before state and federal laws protected workers from abuse. This 2010, I don't need to pay NABET to give me what state law already requires employers to give me.
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HEAR HEAR!
 
CIVET-5 said:
Compare pay stubs, and you'll have an entirely different outcome.
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And that is the stupidest part about the whole business. It's one of the only businesses where you can PROVE, hands down, whether you're any good or not. Yet, the people who make the most money are often not the best at what they do.
 
iHD makes it seem that there are oodles of network folks at all DC events - that's absolutely not true. Yes there may be a sound man along some of the time, but NBC's White House liveshots are now cameraman only, as are most location lives for CBS and NBC. ABC is the last network holdout on the 2 man band tech model (not to mention the multiple layers of producers) and they're going to pay for it.

I do agree that there's no need for 2 techs to do Cannon or Russell lives (or any lives, for that matter.) You do need the gear and the time to set it up, however. Make fun of the scrims, soft boxes, and reflectors/silks all you want - it looks better than one old Lowel 1k.
 
Baltimore Shooter said:
Well Michael, why don't you use the new found enlightenment you mentioned in the Nat Geo thread and tell ABC that this is a terrible idea which can only lead to lower morale, lower ratings and the part they will be most concerned about - lower revenue.

Warren
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Warren,
They are cutting the news staff by an astonishing 20% because revenues from news are down an appreciable amount.
The revenues are not down because the production values of the news have deteriorated, they are down because viewership has deteriorated. Viewership has deteriorated, in my opinion, because a) the nightly news no longer offers anything anyone wants to watch - this is more in the form of content than production values, and b) we increasingly have a culture which has diminished interest in television news per se.
If you look at the evening news shows on all three networks, you will find little of value that you might want to bother to tune into every night. The stories tend to be well produced, but for the most part banal, fluff, and superficial. For me it is always interesting to watch the evening news on the nets followed by an hour of BBC America's news show. It's two different worlds.
Until the networks address the far more serious issue of content, audience share is going to continue to deteriorate, and as it does, more cuts will follow.
ABC News is a bit like GM, unfortunately, and the number of people they field in a crew will make little difference if they are pointing their cameras at banal subjects.
 
grinner said:
Unions are for lazy folks who would rather pay dues for secuity than compete or work for it. Hence the low hourly rates involved.
I can tell ya here in STL, union wages pay less than 30 bucks an hour for shooting.
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Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Unions are the reason for higher pay rates for photogs. If you had the kind of news experience you claim to have, you'd know just how "low" non-union photogs are paid.

iHD said:
Chicago Dog, After reading recent posts, its sounds like I'm not too far off the mark with my observations. I don't have to be in a union to know what's going on. Its out there in the open for all to see.
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Oh, I see. So instead of having actual experience, you feel completely comfortable drawing a poorly-educated opinion and throwing it up on a public forum. Yeah, that makes complete sense.

iHD said:
Chicago Dog, you just sound like one of those old time union guys fearful of losing your beloved union because it means you might have to get off you lazy a$$ and do something for a change.
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Again: more assumption based on nothing but ignorance. Rather than continuing to address your ignorant claims, I'll simply stop wasting my time on you.

This thread seems to hold a lot of bitterness against unions. Most of the reasoning I'm seeing behind this bitterness doesn't hold water. Disliking unions because they couldn't prevent a layoff is not a valid reason. Unions have almost no power over layoffs and cutbacks.

Sorry, folks, but you've got a little more research to do before you start pointing the finger.
 
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