Job w/o current refs?

[Run 'n' Get 'em]

Ok chiefs, This question is for you... If I applied for a position at your station and you liked my tape and all... You start to call my references but notice that there isn't one listed for my current station... Am I automatically out the window? Let me explain first before you answer that...

At my current station, Good people but I've butted heads with about all of them to where I don't associate with any of them outside of work. I just refuse to screw around...
-Some of you may remember my "Windy Live Shots" thread in the general discussion... That got me chewed out.
-Another weather situation tonight with a live shot got me chewed out again (Long story short, Had to remind producer who makes the call when a shot is dead due to wx... Expecting to be called in to ND's office again).
-From what I've been told I'm the only one who hasn't been pulled over in a marked news vehicle.
-If I'm scheduled 10AM - 7PM I'll actually work that and not knock off early as soon as I'm done which I'm about the only one that doesn't (including my chief)... Unless I'm ill or have some other situation
-I don't talk about people behind their back unlike most everyone else in my newsroom

You can see why I wouldn't expect to get any references from here... If I explained all this to you, Would I still be out-the-window if I was before?

And if anyone else from my station should see this... Hi

 

[Imachief]

No...not necessarily. While I always require references, that's usually just the begining of checking out a potential hire. At least for me.

As for me I usually start with the other stations in town. I want to see what your competitors say about you. Not just the photojournalists, either.

Why? Because the references you include will ALWAYS sing your praises. I know it, you know it, and every hiring manager in America knows it. But if the folks you DON'T work with have good things to say about you, that may carry more weight than anything your listed references might say about you.

 

[SmlMktChief]

I don't rely much on YOUR references. Imachief said it well "...the references you include will ALWAYS sing your praises..."

The guys and gals at the other stations probably know you better than your staff. They know if you are polite, a good interviewer and don't walk in others live shots or video. (We have a few that will do that here)

Video and story quality first...
Reputation second...
Personal references last...

Besides, if someone call me for a reference all I am allowed to tell them is if that person workrd here.

 

[-Jimmy-]

I have to disagree. Attitude is number 1 for me. You can be the best photographer of all time, but if no one wants to work with you, what good are you? You can train skill, you can't train attitude.

 

[Run 'n' Get 'em]

Originally posted by -Jimmy-:
I have to disagree. Attitude is number 1 for me. You can be the best photographer of all time, but if no one wants to work with you, what good are you? You can train skill, you can't train attitude.

I've got a great attitude towards work, Coming in days off to cover needed duties during Ophelia... Early just b/c something is happening... Doing all that with OT being frozen... It's just some stuff I don't compromise on (see my examples in my initial post).

 

[Oldhuskie]

You but heads with everybody? Great you work the extra hours but nobody wants to work with you. I totally understand that you have the call in the wx situation but you have to compromise on other problems. If you go around butting heads all the time you are more problems than you are worth.

 

[Run 'n' Get 'em]

Originally posted by Oldhuskie:
You but heads with everybody? Great you work the extra hours but nobody wants to work with you. I totally understand that you have the call in the wx situation but you have to compromise on other problems. If you go around butting heads all the time you are more problems than you are worth.

Eh... I was ticked when I wrote that... Let me rephrase... It's mainly just the one producer and one reporter that I butt heads with to varying degrees and when it's something that I don't back down on (IE: the WX) they like to get the ND, EP, and my chief involved. Even when I'm in the right though, I'm usually getting chewed out rather than them ticking off a producer or reporter (because I'm the new guy who should be keeping his mouth shut?).

My main question is would I get some respect for working safely? This whole thing stemmed from an email I sent early on in that day (around 12p) to the producer, who is in a different office 1.5 hours away, that the weather was pretty crappy and if it didn't get better my reporter's live shot at 6 probably wouldn't happen (the weather anchor that day was also in the same office as me). I sent that in the thoughts of her having some kind of backup just in-case if the weather did get worse, but she didn't take it that way and instead raises hell for me.

[ November 29, 2005, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Run 'n' Get 'em ]

 

[SmlMktChief]

Originally posted by -Jimmy-:
I have to disagree. Attitude is number 1 for me. You can be the best photographer of all time, but if no one wants to work with you, what good are you? You can train skill, you can't train attitude.

Don't get me wrong...if your attitude sux, I don't care if your the best shooter ever, I won't hire you.
That is why I check sources other than your references. Two really good photogs don't work here anymore because they couldn't work with anyone.

 

[-Jimmy-]

Agreed. Most people don't realize that I'll make 10 to 20 calls on a potential hire. I want to know that he/she would fit in with the over-all product. If I get a couple of people (references) refusing to answer my questions, then that sends up a red flag. We as managers have to be vigilant in our hiring so that it works for the staff as a whole. Saying that; I'm not perfect in our past selections, but I've definately learned from my mistakes. Again... You can train skill, you can't train attitude.

 

[Lensmith]

Forgive me for dropping in here...it's been a few years since I was a chief photog but...references on the paper were something I never paid a lot of attention to.

People who got hired at every place I worked...except for my very first tv job...were kind on known beforehand.

The ones I hired were people I'd already established contact with. I'd talked to them and had already seen their work from past job openings.

Whenever I was the one looking for a job, the people who did the hiring were always someone I'd worked with before somewhere in the past. They knew who I was and what I could do.

The guys I hired when I was chief were people I already knew. Either by working across the street from them or a much longer interview process. The "place an ad - get a tape and resume - take a wild guess as to who really did what they could do and give them the job" never seemed to work.

When I moved to Miami, my last staff job, I didn't get the full time gig right away. I freelanced for them for three months. Then the full time gig happened. At all the others, I heard about openings from friends in various newsroom positions who had moved "up" to places I wanted to be. Even at my first TV job, I got it because I went face to face with my efforts instead of sitting at home mailing out fresh from college resumes and a weak college station tape.

I understand in smaller markets it's much harder to come by experienced people. What I'd like to politely point out is, part of doing the job of chief photographer is developing a pool of possible job applicants. Even if it's just in your head, it's something you should constantly have in development. Don't wait until you have an opening you need to fill and then can't find anyone.

Make an effort to get to know people who could be potential employees. Maybe someone sent you a tape and it wasn't up to snuff...but they have promise. A few words of encouragement and suggestions for improvement can go a long way, even if you never end up hiring them. But just dealing with past applicants isn't enough.

Developing a potential employee pool may mean investing time to visit the local college or high school. There's always someone with an eye for this business in those places and small group of them even have the attitude and talent you are looking for! You'll be surprised to see who's out there that can do the job...and they may not even be thinking of a job in television news until you talk to them!

What's wrong with contacting a couple of local wedding photogs to see if they're interested? If anyone knows how to work with people they should! The same goes with lots of tv related places. Many schools, city governments, hospitals and local companies have people who AV people. These are potential employees. Again, far from all...but all you need usually is to fill a single opening! All it takes is one and the best part is they're already in town. They might even be able to spend a day proving to you they are the right hire with personal experience while you watch them do a try out. What would you really have to lose if you're there with them. At worst, you say "no thanks". At best, you've found someone who fits your needs.

I know it sounds crazy but it works and, as I mentioned earlier, part of being a chief photog is doing the chief job the best you can, at all levels, not just with a camera on your shoulder. That means you, as chief, should be doing something more than sitting back waiting for calls to come in from an ad.

I had to learn this when I was a chief photographer. It made my job easier having a pool to work from. I was much more confident of who it was that was getting the job. The worst thing in the world is to hire someone and then find out they can't "do it". There's a way you can avoid this situation by being more proactive in getting ready to fill openings you KNOW will come up in the future. They always do! Not everyone stays forever.

I know many job seekers who feel a position should be able to be won by simply sending a tape and resume with some good references. Then a long lunch to get to know them before a job is offered. Sure that does happen but not as often as many would like to believe.

Building a pool of potential employees and/or getting into someone elses "pool" is a tactic which has worked for me.

Understanding this idea helped me either get a job for myself, or hire qualified people more quickly, regardless of which side I was on in the employee/managment food chain.

 

[SmlMktChief]

Well put Lensmith!

 

[-Jimmy-]

Good advise, Lensmith.
A couple of months ago, I hired a guy from town; a freelance photographer. He worked one day (the morning shift) and decided he couldn't handle it. He left a note on my office door saying "thanks, but no thanks". This is one time that I wasn't vigilant enough in my selection. Won't happen again.