I Just Read the Obituary for b-roll.net

b-roll

b-roll

Administrator
Staff member
After a request from a long-time member and valuable contributor to the b-roll.net FORUM, asking me to remove his account, I sat down to find out what had happened.

It appears another thread devolved into a pissing match with no merit or contribution to the site.

Someone made the statement that "if you don't like the fights, stay out of the train wreck threads." The problem is, many valuable threads are being hijacked mid-stream so your average reader doesn't know what they've got until the pissing and shouting begins...

Many people have contributed a great deal to help with the success of b-roll.net. I'm grateful to all of you.

I take great pride in the community we've built. At the same time, I am saddened to see it being destroyed by unproductive and often misguided arguments.

The efforts I'm making are looking more and more fruitless everyday.

Please tell me how we can improve the FORUM or (according to many in a recent thread) I should just shut down the site.
 
Kev,

Dont shut the forum down. Its my main source of job related sanity. Besides its cheaper than prozac, and the effects are longer lasting!

With those who prefer to bitch and fight, perhaps a separate section entitled "In the Ring" or "catfights". Any threads can be moved there - or started there and LEFT there, that way folks who want to bitch and get the claws out know WHERE they are in the scheme of things.

That way they might grow up a little and realise we are all in the same job, have different personalities and can actually co-exist together.

2.2c worth, including tax.

Ben
 
Kevin,

I'm not sure what can be done to rescue the forum but I believe it's well worth the effort. You more than anyone know the wide breadth of visitors who learn from and enjoy its content. If I am the least bit responsible for the recent bile, let me apologize here and now. You know I value this site and your generous support over the years. That's why it's so hard to watch the discourse devolve because of a virulent few. I had hoped ignoring them would solve the problem, but instead they've run roughshod over anyone who contributes anything outside their worldview.

Reading this, it all seems fairly silly. Those who frequent this board can say most anything they like on it, but the unprovoked rancor from a choice few are ruining the soup. If I'd added to that malaise, I apologize. But I can't imagine I'm the only one driven away by the bully pulpit that a few folks have erected. No matter what those of my vintage would like to think, the future of the industry and this board lies in the rising generation of news gatherers. They need a site to learn from and laugh at, not one where disgruntled elders will slap their ideas down whenever they veer off-script.

You have built an incredible resource here. Don't let a few trolls shut it down. I don't know how you go about improving discourse, but know that I and many others are standing by to take part - once the atmosphere improves.

Stewart Pittman
lenslinger.com
 
Kevin:

Make it a pay site, require actual names, and toss out those who belittle others. I'll gladly pay.
 
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kev,

i'm not familiar with the thread in question, and i know you have a "real" job, but maybe a bit more moderating would help. i know that the creative cow forums have a little more input/monitoring - maybe that would help here. moderating can be a real tight-rope, however - some will occasionally scream about censorship but personally, i think that these things tend to work themselves out and that b-roll doesn't really need "fixing" - it just goes through these phases every so often.
 
I can tell you one thing.

As long as certain members whom are partially guilty of sidetracking and trolling the threads, as long as those members only blame others of unprovoked rancor ruining the soup, nothing will change.

Certain members can drive the smartest members like Nino away. Certain members can accuse everyone else of ruining the soup but at the end of the day don’t be surprised when you’re the only ones left to preach to. Well you and the rude kids that are going to starve because they only have MR and his followers to listen to and learn from at B-ROLL.net.

Good luck with next year’s NAB videos – I’m sure the new generation of youngsters learning video techniques will have a lot to learn from watching those. Just make sure you shut out other members from commenting on your choice of technique…

Nino, if you’re listening – please don’t steer away from teaching the youngsters your wisdom. If Nino walks out, it’s guaranteed that a mass amount of people will follow him out the gate and the biggest losers will be the youngsters missing out on some very valuable knowledge from years of his experience and expertise.
 
Kev,

Don't shut B-Roll. It's a great resource. It's a one-stop site for knowledge, treads, and occasional "cat fight". Your site has made us brothers and sisters. And sometimes we will act like brothers and sisters. You have gathered shooters from across the world to speak at your site. It would be a shame to see it disappear. It has become the local watering hole on the Internet. I believe many would be lost without it.

Other forums seem to have some problems, but I don't think that they considered to shut down the site. Instead, they have tried to improve the site to prevent some of the problems.

As suggested, a couple of moderator to keep the peace. Other boards that I read have numerous moderators for different sections. You have done a great job keeping us in control, but maybe a few more hands will be better.

If you went to a pay site, many important viewpoints would be lost.

Please, let b-roll stay.

Bobby
 
Remember why you did it?

Kevin...remember why you wanted to start a website from the beginning.

It was giving guys like yourself a voice.

You liked guys like us.
You know...TV guys.

This place is it brother.
If you go....
that's it.

Stay the course my man...it will payoff later.
Your hard work has meaning.

Thanks Kevin.
 
Kevin,

You should just delete any posts that veer off track into personal attacks or pissing contests and running over the same stupid ground. No warning, no notice, no apology, just trash them. Once people realize they are wasting the time it takes to write a bunch of nonsense, they'll think twice about doing it again. That's the best punishment you can dish out -- throw away their "work".

I'm not saying to ban any individuals, because everyone goes a little off track sometimes, and everyone has something to contribute, I'm saying to purge the crappy posts as soon as you see them.

YOU know where the problem lies. YOU can tell a good post/thread from bad one, so you need to be the dictactor. It's your website. so start kicking some ass. It's your ball, and if someone doesn't like your decision, they can go play someplace else -- and the rest of use will thank you.
 
Kev, I'm guessing that only you know that true readership here since just a fraction of the members post. I don't think I've ever worked in a shop where everyone didn't at least occasionally read b-roll. The tape critique forum alone is irreplaceable. Shutting it down because a long time member lost himself in the site would just punish thousands for whom b-roll is a needed stop over coffee each day.
I've always liked the use of registered users, it always helps the effort to self police the site if a poster knows their friends or co-workers are reading. In effect, don't say anything you wouldn't say in your photog lounge.
Other than that I'd like to see a zero tolerance policy on personal attacks. It's what led to the pretty ugly stuff that occurred. There's a lot that I can abide but the provocation, name calling and denigration of family (not directed at me thankfully) pulled me off the sideline.
That kind of behavior is disrespectful to everyone on the forum, not just the target.
I have no idea how to police that but it should warrant suspension if people can't respect one another let alone this site. I'm not surprised by what has transpired. Watching various threads for the last year it seemed almost inevitable that a line would be crossed. It's hard to watch a once valued member catch fire and explode with no way to intervene but to step in and risk getting burned in the flames yourself.
Any way to fairly and gently let folks know when they've gone to far would help a lot.
 
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This is one of the only boards where I post (maybe the only one) that doesn't have a warning/ban system in place.

Simply make a rule of no flaming/trolling in the General Discussion forum and, when someone does, hit them with a warning. Accumulate enough warnings (or one very serious one) and you get a little vacation from the board. AFAIK, vBulletin has a system for that in their software.
 
Douglas said:
You should just delete any posts that veer off track into personal attacks or pissing contests and running over the same stupid ground.
Click to expand...

I second the appointment of more administrators and I'd like to add baiting to Douglas' list. Feeling the need to defend yourself will oftentimes supersede the desire to stay away from a trainwreck thread.
 
Agreed...if you are feeling that a shut down is in order, take a moment and re-envision the level of civility you'd like to see.

Then, take the velvet glove off and enforce it. Mercilessly. It's your site. If certain posts and posters don't meet your expectations, show them the electronic door.
 
Kevin,

While I vowed never to post again (I still read the threads though), I'm breaking that vow briefly to offer one suggestion. Remove the ability to quote other posts. That seems to be where a lot of this crap starts. I know I've been part of the problem in the past and for that I apologize. I know many are glad I don't post anymore. I think it would help if people only posted their opinions/thoughts on the original post that started the thread and restrain themselves from making comments about another person's post. Its probably too much to ask but its what needs to happen.

However, I think there's more to this issue. More and more photogs are losing there jobs or being replaced by VJ/OMB's. There also just isn't any work out there for most photogs looking for work. In a down economy, there's going to be bitterness and anger. b-roll.net has always been a place to voice opposition and express frustration/anger. I think the business has just devolved and work is so scarce that now photogs are turning on each other. Its unfortunate, and others may disagree with my observation, but the downturn in the industry and the downturn in the site seem to be parallel.

In the end, the only option may be to make the entire site like the Pro Forum where everyone must post their real names and their avatars should be a real pic of themselves. Also eliminate the ability for a poster to delete his/her own post. That way, its out there for everyone in the business to see and people would be less likely to be negative because any potential employer could log onto b-roll and instantly see what kind of person their hiring. I think that would clean things up real quickly.
 
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I hate personal attacks and feel they are never productive in any way. Even jokes can get out of hand. I feel any post that is attacking, it gets deleted. Repeat offenders get their accounts deleted. I understand and agree with most of what was said above too. But we as users need to know, you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

Either way Kev, your website is registration expires in January 2014! You can't get rid of Broll.net!
 
Kevin
Well, this is unfortunate.
You have done a great job in both setting this up and running it, and I have always enjoyed my time here, no matter what the discussion was about. There are a lot of talented people on this site and I have learned a lot.
Free presses are messy. They always are. But this is not a free press, this is your home, and you have every right to keep your home the way you like it and remove those you find annoying or disruptive.
It is fairly clear to me that my opinions, and indeed even my presence here have become something of a lighting rod for personal attacks.
I, for one, don't mind them in the least. They don't bother me at all.
But clearly they bother other people, and more than that, they have become a disruptive force for your entire site; changing its purpose and goals.
Fine.
I was invited here many years ago by Mr. Snopek to participate.
I have given my ideas and views.
You see what is happening to the industry. Nothing is going to change that.
Nothing.
But it also seems that this whole conversation has become far too personal, too contentious and close to home.
I think the best solution to your problem is for you to delete my membership here.
It has been fun, interesting, educational and enjoyable; but clearly it carries more problems than benefits for many.
It is unfortunate, but I think it probably is for the best.
Many thanks for all your good work and best of luck for the future.
m
 
Miichael, I encourage you to stay.
Yes, you're a lightning rod, but you're not the problem.
Stick around.
 
Thanks for all of your support.

Too much has been put into b-roll.net to let it die. As SeattleShooter put it - the expiration date on the domain is too far away to let it go. We shall live on!

We will have to be stricter on the personal attack rules. Posts with direct personal attacks will be deleted as soon as we're made aware of them. Please help us by using the "Reported Post" link
report.gif
.

For many of you, Michael Rosenblum personifies the VJ/OMB movement, but attacking him in the attempt to attacking the concept of VJ/OMBs will result in your post being deleted.

I may call upon some of you to help me with moderation. And there may be other changes as we go along.

Thank you for your patience and support to keep b-roll.net a valuable resource - and a fun place to hang out.
 
Thank you Kevin. I hope your response encourages our recently departed and Michael to stick around. I know that I and probably hundreds more look forward to our progression.
I hope the calls to keep the site running are a silver lining for you, reminding you of how valued your baby is to so many.
 
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