Cops/Limited Access

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Phojo2

Member
I have video of several cops (local/state) prohibiting me from shooting a highway accident scene. Approx. 50 onlookers were standing around the traige area. I was prohibited from shooting anywhere near the scene (at least anywhere people were standing) simply because I had a large TV camera. The cops were yelling at me, grabbed me, even people in the crowd turned on me and started to shove me (presumably because they didn't want me there). I was able to fire off a couple shots. However, law enforcement prohibited me from continuing uninterupted.

The State Policeman's reasoning was "Next of kin haven't been notified. If you were involved in an accident on the highway, would you want your Mom to see you on TV?" Mind you--there turned out to be no fatalities.

The local cop's reasoning was "Stop filming me. I'm telling you as an officer of the law to stop filming me (repeated 5 times and could have been heard from here to Timbuktu)"--this, as blue veins were poping out of his neck.

My question---what should I do about this (already informed station, who chose to do nothing)? Are there any specific attorneys who specialize in this area? Court cases?
 
Check your state laws. I know in California we have a law that gives us access to scenes as long as we don't cross police tape lines, etc, etc. As for cops and crowds pushing you. Thats assualt. Get the police name or if the crowd pushes you tell a cop you want to file charges. And roll on everything for proof. When they tell you can't shoot anything because of next of ken. Tell them your not shooting the bodies. You can't air them anyways. Last but no least talk to the PIO pf the department. You should let your chief know so you won't get in trouble by your station. Good luck
 

Dave Putnam

Well-known member
Here is the section of the California Penal Code mentioned by the previous poster:

409.5. (a) Whenever a menace to the public health or safety is
created by a calamity including a flood, storm, fire, earthquake,
explosion, accident, or other disaster, officers of the Department of
the California Highway Patrol, police departments, marshal's office
or sheriff's office, any officer or employee of the Department of
Forestry and Fire Protection designated a peace officer by
subdivision (g) of Section 830.2, any officer or employee of the
Department of Parks and Recreation designated a peace officer by
subdivision (f) of Section 830.2, any officer or employee of the
Department of Fish and Game designated a peace officer under
subdivision (e) of Section 830.2, and any publicly employed full-time
lifeguard or publicly employed full-time marine safety officer while
acting in a supervisory position in the performance of his or her
official duties, may close the area where the menace exists for the
duration thereof by means of ropes, markers, or guards to any and all
persons not authorized by the lifeguard or officer to enter or
remain within the enclosed area. If the calamity creates an
immediate menace to the public health, the local health officer may
close the area where the menace exists pursuant to the conditions set
forth in this section.
(b) Officers of the Department of the California Highway Patrol,
police departments, marshal's office or sheriff's office, officers of
the Department of Fish and Game designated as peace officers by
subdivision (e) of Section 830.2, or officers of the Department of
Forestry and Fire Protection designated as peace officers by
subdivision (g) of Section 830.2 may close the immediate area
surrounding any emergency field command post or any other command
post activated for the purpose of abating any calamity enumerated in
this section or any riot or other civil disturbance to any and all
unauthorized persons pursuant to the conditions set forth in this
section whether or not the field command post or other command post
is located near to the actual calamity or riot or other civil
disturbance.
(c) Any unauthorized person who willfully and knowingly enters an
area closed pursuant to subdivision (a) or (b) and who willfully
remains within the area after receiving notice to evacuate or leave
shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(d) Nothing in this section shall prevent a duly authorized
representative of any news service, newspaper, or radio or television
station or network from entering the areas closed pursuant to this
section.
 

TXPhotog

Well-known member
It's this simple: If the general public is allowed up close, you are too. Unless they move the public back to where they make you go, you have EVERY right to go right to where everyone else is standing as long as you DON'T cross the yellow tape. Also you said you were grabbed and shoved by the police and onlookers. That also means you were assaulted which is a crime. If you weren't in violation of any laws or inside the yellow tape, and weren't being belligerent to the cops they have no right to touch you. The other onlookers have even less right to touch you. Also in a case where you have a crowd of people around you and you feel threatened after they have already touched you, that brick battery on the back of your camera makes a great weapon when swung around.
 

ewink

Well-known member
TX has got it right on....

You see a civilian, there is NOTHING the police can do to stop you from going there...

At one scene the police were trying to keep me back, but I saw a lady in her front yard and so I asked her if I could stand with her and she said yes, so technially I was on private property, so that give the police even less cause to do anything...

They eventually threatened to arrest me unless I went back to where they wanted me, and I figured I guess video from there would be better than no video at all and complied... Ya gotta pick your battles...

---EDIT

You know, I would also add that you can tell the police officer that just because we shoot it, doesn't mean it'll air. I doubt that any station would purposly show a too much detail before the police release names...

And I don't know where in the midwest you are but I have noticed that here in Illinois, at least downstate where I live, the ISP covers up license plates and windows so that you couldn't shoot anything identifiable... The ISP tends to leave us alone as long as we don't get in the way... The only problem with police that I have had has been with the city during standoffs...
 

Tippster

The Fly on the Wall
Originally posted by ewink:
... I doubt that any station would purposly show a too much detail before the police release names...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, that's just so precious! :D
 

ewink

Well-known member
Originally posted by Tippster:
quote: Originally posted by ewink:
... I doubt that any station would purposly show a too much detail before the police release names...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, that's just so precious! :D
<sighs> I've only been in news for 6 months... I'm allowed to still be naive...
 

News1st

Member
There's a time in everyone's life, that they should feel like they are Number 1.

When you come across such a fellow, I suggest you use your middle finger to let him know his standing.
 

Photographer

Well-known member
Phojo2....If I had been to that scene I would have stood where ever the cops wanted me to stand. I would have got my video and left. Unless ofcourse the desk needed me to stay. You said there were no fatalies. So what was the big deal about getting up close. If this was for a 15 second VO only 3 or maybe 4 shots would have made air. If there were dead bodies to see you wouldn't have shot them anyway unless your station puts them on the air.

I've heard so many stories about photogs in these situations and I have to laugh everytime because fighting with a cop at a scene is a lost cause. By the way how long have you been shooting? I ask this because if you've been around awhile you'd know that in our profession making friends with the cops can go ALONG way. You'll soon find out that alot of the same cops show up to these scenes and they remember. There are three groups of people you need to be friendly with at ALL times. Paramedics, firemen and the police. Even if they are keeping you out of an area where civilians are hanging out don't argue. Just ask where you can stand and go there and shoot your video. If you argue you may end up missing something or you may never get the sound bite the desk wants. It doesn't matter what the law says law enforcement officals will always do what they want. And you need to ask yourself is this really worth arguing over?

I could go on and on about why it's a stupid idea to argue but I won't.

By the way you say your station didn't seem to care so I don't see what the big deal is?

One last thing if you did miss something because the cop told you to move and your station asked you why all you have to say is that the cop told me to move. If the station has a problem with that tell them to call the police department up.
 

Where's the Audio?

Well-known member
Originally posted by Photographer:

There are three groups of people you need to be friendly with at ALL times. Paramedics, firemen and the police. Even if they are keeping you out of an area where civilians are hanging out don't argue. Just ask where you can stand and go there and shoot your video. If you argue you may end up missing something or you may never get the sound bite the desk wants. It doesn't matter what the law says law enforcement officals will always do what they want. And you need to ask yourself is this really worth arguing over?
Could not disagree more. You're job is to shoot video. Cops can't tell you to get off public property where other "civilians" are allowed to be. They may not LIKE you if you call them on it. But they will respect you and appreciate that you're doing your job the BEST you can.
 

Where's the Audio?

Well-known member
Oh yea. And you never know whether a story is going to be a 15 second VO or the basis for a special report. My policy: shoot the #@$% out of it.
 

Photographer

Well-known member
"But they will respect you and appreciate that you're doing your job the BEST you can."

They definitly don't respect you and they definitly don't like the fact that you are arguing with them. One way to piss a cop off fast is to argue. I in fact have been hand cuffed because I was arguing. Some other photogs and I were trying to go where other civilians were going but some cop decided she didn't want us to. In the end all the charges were dropped.

9 times out of 10 I have no problems going where I want as long as I stand behind the yellow tape. But if I'm stopped I don't argue and not because I'm afraid of being arrested. But because it doesn't do me any good. It's a waste of time in the end. Also if everyone is forced to shoot from the same spot then technically I'm not missing something that might show up on another station.

Cops will lay down the law regardless if it's right or wrong. It's people like you however that make things worse for the rest of us.

I will say though that when and if the PIO shows up to the scene I would just talk to them about being put in a better spot. I find that usually regular street cops don't know much about the media and sometimes are scared. So I don't argue and I just wait for the PIO.
 

Tippster

The Fly on the Wall
Cops will lay down the law regardless if it's right or wrong. It's people like you however that make things worse for the rest of us.
Sit! Stay! Roll Over...Good boy.

Sorry, man, but your premise is WAAAAAYYY off. You actually sound like an ex-cop. Their job is to ENFORCE the law, not make it up as they go. Their WORD is NEVER law. There are a few posters on here, notably Terry Toller, that have ended up in court protecting our right to access. After Rodney King no Cop, NOT ONE, wants the press anywhere near a police action. Someone once posted a link to a police web-board where they're all b*tching about the press.

Well, that's just tough sh*t. I've had to remind plenty of patrolmen/women about the 1st amendment. If they don't like it, then they can have their boss come and tell me why they're breaking THE LAW. I refuse to take whimsical orders from some 22 year old idiot w/a Napoleonic complex, and I'll be rolling the whole time.
They definitly don't respect you and they definitly don't like the fact that you are arguing with them. One way to piss a cop off fast is to argue. I in fact have been hand cuffed because I was arguing. Some other photogs and I were trying to go where other civilians were going but some cop decided she didn't want us to. In the end all the charges were dropped.
And did you then press charges against the cop? Her badge should have been suspended for unlawful restraint. My job is to shoot video, not be some cop's friend. If they act like professionals so will I, but as soon as they cross the line I'll let them know. Loudly. And I have a BIG MOUTH (as if you couldn't tell.)
 
Originally posted by Tippster:
And did you then press charges against the cop? Her badge should have been suspended for unlawful restraint.
Not sure what planet you are shooting on, but it just is not going to happen. No suspension. No letter of reprimand. No verbal counseling. Nothing. Just a pat on the back from the other cops, and encouragement to keep up the good work.

Now... if you can get your station to back you up, make an issue of it, and air the footage of the officer overstepping her boundaries, then you might get something done. If not, then you have to question whether your station really cares anyhow.
 

Photographer

Well-known member
When I go to a scene I'm more interested in the story then to care about what the cops are doing with me. The story is not how the cops are treating me the story is what is happening at the scene.
 
Originally posted by Photographer:
When I go to a scene I'm more interested in the story then to care about what the cops are doing with me.
That is a given. But when the cops are IN YOUR FACE and keeping you from having even the slightest clue what the story even is, the priority is different. You can't make the story your priority until you get past this obstacle. And that is what we are talking about here.
 

Photographer

Well-known member
They don't get in my face because I don't give them problems. They do their job and I do mine. I've been to scenes where another photog is argueing (sp?) with the cops and missing great video which I'm getting.

Again why argue.
 
I agree. I am not advocating argument. You can't win. I am just saying that you don't have to argue to get $h!+ on by overzealous cops. If it hasn't happened to you, either you are in an extremely small market, or you just haven't been at it long enough.
 

Photographer

Well-known member
Actually I've been to more crime scenes then I care to count and they have all been in large markets. I just don't agree with arguing. I've only had one real confrontation and that's it. I don't argue when I'm told I need to move. If I'm asked why I wasn't in a better spot by management I just say the cops moved me. I don't see what the big deal is.

I just see alot of photogs show up to scenes and act as if they own the place. Then they get $h!+ on and complain. So what if we're asked to move. Move, do your job and stop complaining.
 
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