b-roll.net CHAT was a Success
Thanks to everyone who stopped by the b-roll.net CHAT last night – moderated by Shawn Montano. A lot of great editing tips and questions were tossed around and I hope everyone came out with a little more knowledge then when they started.
Thanks Shawn for working to keep us on topic.
We’d love to do this again. What are some topics that you’d like to discuss? When is a good time to hold the chats?
We’ll start planning for the next chat… in the meantime, here’s a transcript of Monday night’s chat.
23:30 Edit_Foundry Well hello everyone
23:30 Edit_Foundry I’m sorry I was finishing editing
23:30 Shootblue greetings
23:30 b-roll I’m excited to introduce our guest moderator tonight…
23:31 Edit_Foundry Today was my first day at our new joint venture
23:31 b-roll 2 time NPPA editor of the year…
23:31 b-roll or (Edit_Foundry)
23:31 Edit_Foundry I cut for the fox31 5pm show. Then fox 31 5:30pm show then The Duece 7pm show. Then the fox31 9pm show
23:32 Edit_Foundry Hi all.
23:32 rmfranz Hello
23:32 Edit_Foundry So, how’s everyone’s editing skills?
23:32 b-roll What has the transition from different editing platforms been like?
23:32 rmfranz working towards something more than mediocore.
23:32 Edit_Foundry Excellent
23:32 Edit_Foundry So, how many are 100% non linear ?
23:33 rmfranz nope
23:33 John Gross We are switching to Final cut pro…. all p-2 cameras…. jgross
23:33 Shootblue i’ve went from grass valley to vegas to premiere in the last year and my brain is easily confused on keyboard shortcuts…yikes
23:33 rmfranz dvcpro linear editing
23:33 b-roll NLE Avid P2
23:33 way kool productions all avid, xdcam
23:34 Edit_Foundry Ok. well. I was editing on both Final cut and Avid until today, now I’m 100% Final Cut
23:34 John Gross they are taking all the avid’s out…. and saying to save what we need. jgross
23:34 b-roll Welcome, Kim…
23:34 kfatica What’s up, peeps!
23:34 Edit_Foundry So, This is an Editing chat. Let’s start with transitioning to a new non-linear platfrom
23:35 Shootblue for what is worth, i feel that premiere cs4 is a pretty good solution for small to medium budgets
23:35 John Gross Yes!
23:35 Edit_Foundry The first thing I’ve done is map my keyboard
23:36 kfatica You get a lot for your money.
23:36 Edit_Foundry Make my life comfortable
23:36 Edit_Foundry I like to keep one hand on the keyboard at all times
23:36 b-roll So you’ve mapped the FCP to match Avid?
23:37 Edit_Foundry So I map keys I use all the time for convience….yes to match Avid….like I mapped v and b for insert and overwrite
23:37 Shootblue we had a grass valley system for our news XD material…can be very fast if it needs to be…then transitioned to Vegas, which has its upsides, but to me, fast cutting material was not one of them, and enter Premiere, where all I have to do is insert my EX card and edit away…if it wasnt for having to render to something like AVI,it woudl be perfect
23:37 Edit_Foundry I think f9 and f10 are too far to reach
23:38 kfatica F keys are bad for those who can’t type w/o looking. The J and F keys have tactile bumps on them for placement and are easy to navigate from.
23:38 Edit_Foundry Shootblue-we’re converting to cards soon, so we’ll be very fast
23:38 KahunaPhotog Hello all
23:39 Shootblue i shoot sports as my main gig, so speed is important, especially for winter sports…it was killing me to get stuff done…have to rewrap, then edit…
23:39 KahunaPhotog Any layoffs in your areas?
23:39 Edit_Foundry Other keys I’ve mapped. Shift K is Cut. Option L is lift. I made the U button mark clip
23:39 John Gross Shawn are there any good dvd tutorials…just ordered final cut pro for dummies at amazon.com for
23:39 b-roll I’m a big fan of Lynda.com for FCP tutorials…
23:39 KahunaPhotog Layoffs anybody?
23:40 Shootblue my only thought…wouldnt it be easier to just have single keys rather than shift/option attached?
23:40 Shootblue or is there some reason
23:40 Shootblue ?
23:40 Edit_Foundry John Gross yes….I have some hang on
23:41 Edit_Foundry I feel comfortable with shift and option…I did that in Avid
23:41 Shootblue we havent laid anyone off per se, but we have moved people around
23:41 Shootblue i see
23:41 rmfranz we lost 6 people 2 months ago
23:41 Shootblue our biggest problem was a new weekend morning show…totally screwed everything up
23:41 rmfranz and took 3.9% cuts
23:41 Edit_Foundry I highly recommend mapping keyboard on any platfrom to make you faster. every second count in our business
23:42 John Gross 18 layoffs at ch 5 mpls in Dec and lost sports reporter in january
23:42 rmfranz wset in Va
23:42 Shootblue we are technically under a wage freeze, but I just got an increase late last year
23:42 Edit_Foundry Layoff are rampart everywhere….when we merged with KDVR, alot of people didn’t come over.
23:42 KahunaPhotog We had a Sports Anchor laid off after 30 years of being on TV.
23:42 Edit_Foundry Back to Editing. Anyone have non-linear questions?
23:42 KahunaPhotog What is he going to do now
23:42 KahunaPhotog ?
23:43 Shootblue our sports guy will likely die on air
23:43 KahunaPhotog We had
some a couple months ago but we are
scared there might be more.
23:43 KahunaPhotog IS EDITING THE ONLY THING WE ARE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT?
23:44 John Gross what’s the fastest way to get fast on final cut pro
23:44 Shootblue do you know a jason foster shawn
23:44 KahunaPhotog Oh well. Bye
23:44 rmfranz as to editing, our station is looking at implementing NewsByte systems we got from National Geographic (circa 1999 systems)
23:45 Edit_Foundry I’m am moderating a chat. My experience is editing. I’m here to help. But, I can’t keep you from bringing up other material
23:45 Edit_Foundry rmfranz…I’m sorry….I don’t even think Newsbyte has any support any more
23:45 rmfranz we are discovering that
23:45 Shootblue for me, i learned FCP years ago (and have mostly forgotten now) by sitting down with the shortcut keys on paper, and editing a couple non-time sensitive packs
23:46 Edit_Foundry There are many tutorials on line to help with FCOP
23:46 Edit_Foundry hang on a sec…I’ll find one in my e-mail
23:46 John Gross where? what? how much?
23:47 Shootblue for what its worth, i cruise the jo boards all over, and 4 out of 5 or more of the editing gigs are for FCP editors
23:47 Shootblue job
23:47 Edit_Foundry http://thefinalcutpro.com/ Here’s one site
23:47 kfatica APPLE has a free, downloadable podcast featuring Joe Torelli. Great beginning tutorial.
23:48 rmfranz FCP isn’t a bad platform to work on
23:48 John Gross Kim, how do I get it… just go to apple?
23:48 Edit_Foundry http://seminars.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/ASPRegistration.woa/wa/solCheck?s=205&path=/seminarsonline/newsandsports/apple/index1.html&eventid=73262
23:49 Edit_Foundry that’s another one with Joe Torelli of Apple
23:49 kfatica I’m doing what Shawn is doing: looking in my email for the exact link. I think I Twittered it, too! I have a shortened link.
23:49 Edit_Foundry Hi Kim
23:49 John Gross I’m still stuck in the 80′s… can someone e mail me the info. firstname.lastname@example.org
23:49 kfatica Hi, Shawn! Here is a shortened link to the general tutorials page for Apple: http://www.fcptutorials.com/
23:51 Edit_Foundry Thank kim
23:51 Edit_Foundry Ok …enough about Final Cut
23:51 Edit_Foundry Let’s talk Editing
23:51 Edit_Foundry First off I have a Twitter Edit_Foundry
23:51 Edit_Foundry And a blog blog.nppa.org/editfoundry
23:52 Edit_Foundry I try and update them often
23:52 Edit_Foundry twitter with quick tips and the blog more in depth
23:52 Edit_Foundry I think my next blog is going to be about using a cut as a effect
23:53 Edit_Foundry I love single frame edits
23:53 John Gross What?
23:53 Edit_Foundry I love playing with the pace of a story using single frame edits
23:53 Lenslinger single frame – how many in a row, dictated by sound?
23:53 John Gross Got to see this… do you have examples on line?
23:54 Edit_Foundry What? a single cut can create a effect…yes..by sound
23:54 rmfranz tell me more…
23:55 Edit_Foundry how many…MANY. depends on the subject….but just a few can create a effect…..by using say a wide shot and a tight shot…ediit them together with single frame edits
23:55 Lenslinger single frames by themselves? or in rapid fire succesion?
23:55 rmfranz a single frame seems to be a bit fast for the average viewer
23:55 Edit_Foundry you create like a shutter effect…rapid fire..yes…but using different types of shots..like tight and wide creates a great effect
23:56 Lenslinger werd…
23:56 Edit_Foundry wierd and fun
23:56 John Gross i gotta see it… to see it in my mind
23:56 rmfranz i like the idea
23:57 Lenslinger i use 3 frame bursts on occasion. never a single frame . i’ll try it…
23:57 John Gross is there a story that you cut on the stations website?
23:57 Edit_Foundry I think I’ll write about and show an example…but if you have like a piece about a band / drum core / anything like that it’ll work
23:57 goodfoot I love non linear because you have so much more freedom to be experimental without losing quality from too many passes on the tape as well as the ability to undo and redo….
23:58 Edit_Foundry I’d have to find it john
23:58 John Gross just did Prince’s drummer
23:58 Edit_Foundry Apple Z/Control Z—- GREAT FRIENDS!!!
23:58 Edit_Foundry Ok… next subject
23:58 Edit_Foundry Dragnet Edits
23:58 Edit_Foundry Everyone/Anyone know what a dragnet edit is?
23:59 rmfranz ??
23:59 John Gross is that where you pull the edit from on top?
23:59 John Gross ummm… meant drag the edit
23:59 goodfoot wipe with a picture of joe friday?
23:59 Edit_Foundry No DRAGNET
0:00 Edit_Foundry remember the old DRAGNET show from the 60s
0:00 Lenslinger yes
0:00 rmfranz gotcha on the show, lost you on the edit
0:00 Edit_Foundry the show was edited so before someone spoke, an edit was made…so they cut to someone and then they read thier line
0:01 Edit_Foundry well….it’s stylized the show…but twenty years later it’s …well .. boring…and that’s NOT how the human eye works
0:01 rmfranz fortelling or shadowing?
0:02 Edit_Foundry Think about a conversation you all of sudden pick up on. You turn to listen usuall a word of two into what you hear
0:02 Edit_Foundry so, you hear it, then you look at it. If you editing emulates that…you hear someone talking..then cut visually them…preventing a dragnet edit
0:03 Corporate Management Greetings chatroom
0:04 Edit_Foundry So, roll video a second or so over the soundbites.
0:04 rmfranz gotcha
0:04 Edit_Foundry As my good friend Lou Davis say “Imitate the Eye”
0:04 kfatica We are talking about an L-Cut, right? Leading into vids with a tiny clue of sound.
0:04 goodfoot I’ve always been a big fan of audio forcasting so you hear something before you see it. I think it leads your mind to the next shot and helps the story move along smoother…
0:04 kfatica Yeah, Lou!
0:05 Lenslinger butterfly edit? sound in before sight?
0:05 rmfranz I’m with goodfoot
0:05 John Gross like sneaking music in before bringing it up full
0:05 Edit_Foundry Yes, it leads your mind and imitates what your eye would do if you were there.
0:05 Lenslinger love non linear – glad i learned on tape
0:06 rmfranz learning NLE and then going to tape was a wonderful thing
0:06 Edit_Foundry yes, were all getting it….. I have a suggestion for everyone.. Edit a story DRAGNET Style…watch it…then go back and roll edits….watch the difference it makes.
0:06 rmfranz at least when i came to understanding how it really works
0:07 John Gross sorry…getting late….early assignement… thanks… good luck Kim
0:07 Lenslinger new subject – editing in a crunch – what corners NOT to cut?
0:07 kfatica Thanks, John. Sent you email link for Apple.
0:07 Edit_Foundry I learned tape to tape first too. I’m glad I did. Made me understand logic of editing and process better.
0:08 Edit_Foundry What corners not to cut?
0:08 Edit_Foundry I’d say make sure shots are steady.
0:08 goodfoot Ya, when I was first starting out I had the opportunity to put together a nat pkg with nills lofgren (bruce springstein). Loved the story but my biggest mistake was that for the performance video I faded the sound too quickily instead of letting it trail underneath the interview shots…well you learn
0:08 Corporate Management Well, I wouldn’t dump the video in exactly as I shot it, unless we’re talking a 5-minute edit job
0:09 Edit_Foundry Choose less shots..another helper in time managment
0:09 rmfranz longer shots (meaningful shots) work well in a time crunch
0:09 Edit_Foundry When I’m really under deadline I’ll edit more wide shots..then go back and add tight shots if I have time.
0:10 Lenslinger tight shots save lives
0:10 goodfoot It helps when you shoot the broll you are editing, I edit in the camera so I can lay sequences down in order
0:10 Edit_Foundry I agree….but I feel safe with wides….under deadline
0:10 rmfranz can i get that as a bumper sticker?
0:11 Edit_Foundry create one and we’ll all buy it rmfranz
0:11 goodfoot you might get lots of dates from a certain demographic
0:11 The Thing on The Sticks agreed I find myself useing a lot more wide or establishing type shots when running late
0:12 rmfranz it never seems right to edit wide to wide…
0:12 Edit_Foundry Another corner saver for me..it may seen like it take more time…but it works for me….I’ll fast forward video in my preview window. every time I see a shot change I create a marker
0:12 Corporate Management Quick question: anyone else here told to do “looklives” for every package?
0:12 goodfoot if you shoot wide, then tight you should be able to cut just as quickily without using all wides…I think all wides looks as bad as crossing axis or jump cuts
0:13 kfatica Look lives are a staple in Cleveland.
0:13 rmfranz yikes
0:13 Lenslinger My best editing advice? Write your own scripts. No screaming in the bay cause some nimrod didn’t look at her tape and wrote you into a whole…
0:13 Lenslinger hole
0:13 kfatica BTW, I always try to shoot for the sequence in-cam.
0:13 Corporate Management Sometimes it ends up taking a good 30 seconds out of the package
0:13 Edit_Foundry I have go to marker mapped on my keyboard so I can quickly scan video back and forth to find shots.
0:13 rmfranz gotta love those nimrods, make more than me…
0:14 The Thing on The Sticks true about alternateing and I do but Inside of wide medium tight or wide tight tight I might be going wide tight wide when runing late I don’t usually like to use too many wide shots otherwise
0:14 kfatica My tip for Avid users is to use F3 key to place markers on vids while ingesting.
0:14 Edit_Foundry I Love the photog that edit in camera. Unfortunatly not everyone shoots that way. So as an editor I have to scan the crap
0:14 Edit_Foundry good idea kfatica…I did that on Avid too….
0:14 goodfoot best time saver for me is that I cut sequences before I get a script. I can usually just put them where they belong with some minor trimming
0:15 Edit_Foundry 15 more minutes folks and then I have pick up my wife
0:15 kfatica I tried to teach all of my guys to use F3 markers. Sometimes, after ingest, I will open the Command Pallet and color-code markers to keep things organized.
0:15 Edit_Foundry goodfoot – I just had a blog about that. One of my photographers does that often.
0:16 goodfoot before you head out Shawn, I was wondering what your take is on the current climate of editors/photojounalists. Do you think there is still room for people who take pride in this craft in news or should we start putting tapes together for production houses?
0:17 Edit_Foundry I still think there is pride. I have to admit with everyone doing more with less…more and more quality slips away.
0:17 Lenslinger Chnages or not, there’s room for pride in the craft at my shop. In fact, it’s a pre-requisite. We can’t be the only shop still like this…
0:18 Edit_Foundry But I also think as we adapt..more people do more…and get better at multiple jobs..the quality will come back
0:19 Edit_Foundry I saw quality on our air tonight…steady shots….creative stand ups….wide medium and tights in vo sots…people still do the basics
0:19 Lenslinger We all know editing can make or break a project…soemthing to remain adept at as jobs collapse into each other
0:19 Edit_Foundry Yes. I also write. I pitched a story….now they want it for May book… I volunteered to field produce, write and edit. They loved that idea
0:20 goodfoot Are you still in Denver?
0:20 rmfranz but add lighting and audio to the mix, how many OMB’s can get it
0:20 Lenslinger Not many, but the photogs have a hell of ahead start
0:20 Edit_Foundry I would advise everyone to get better and another skill. Web/writing/social media… yes goodfoot I”m still in denver
0:20 Corporate Management Edit Foundry: where’s your blog?
0:21 Edit_Foundry Blogs.nppa.org/editfoundry
0:21 Corporate Management thanks
0:21 Edit_Foundry follow me on twitter as well @Edit_Foundry. Follow Kim Fatica too @KimFatica
0:21 The Thing on The Sticks I think there is a good point here about learning multipul jobs
0:22 Lenslinger for those of you who DON’T hate Twitter, Edit Foundry’s a font of knowledge there
0:22 The Thing on The Sticks When I was a staffer it was actually discouraged by our chief and ND but now that I freelance it is my greatest asset
0:22 Edit_Foundry I’ve found writing to come naturally to me. I made my writing very simple. I mainly try to write in and out of soundbites.
0:22 Edit_Foundry Meet George Jetson!
0:23 Buck I’m guessing there won’t be a transcript of the chat available?
0:23 Edit_Foundry Our new region seems to be into the “what else can you do” I know the news directors at each station in Denver are asking everyone to learn another skill
0:23 kfatica Thanks, Shawn!
0:23 Edit_Foundry …transcript? b-roll….?????
0:23 kfatica Like your blog, too!
0:24 Edit_Foundry You can just drag your mouse over the chat and copy/paste.
0:24 Buck Yeah, but I missed the first 45 minutes.
0:25 Edit_Foundry Buck..what’s your e-mail
0:25 Buck send it to: email@example.com Thanks!
0:25 Edit_Foundry In that case, Kev should be able to do it.
0:25 goodfoot I don’t know about the advantages of photogs over reporters. Most reporters can learn the basics of shooting and editing and get away with bad video over a live shot or track but I think being comfortable on camera isn’t something you can teach. For me a nicely edited story with a bad track is more distracting from the story then a well put together script over bad video…but it does break my heart a little when I see it…
0:26 Buck I’m sure this has been touched on…along with FCP…what are the best HD editing options out there? our Grass Valley won’t cut it.
0:26 Edit_Foundry I just sent it to you
0:26 Buck Thanks.
0:27 The Thing on The Sticks Ive heard of people useing vegas for hd
0:27 Edit_Foundry goodfoot….. I agree…the on camera thing is the hardest to develop….and with time…I see everyone in denver improving…unfortunatly..it’s a couple steps back before we can move forward
0:27 Lenslinger Understood goodfoot, hopefully the idea of on camera narrators will dwindle along with budgets…
0:28 The Thing on The Sticks though If I had to purchace anything today it would be FCP hands down
0:28 goodfoot That would be great! I’d love to see news become more doc style with little or no track so the people can tell the story
0:28 Edit_Foundry a couple more minutes….. FCP is very consumer friendly….even Final Cut Express, which is less than 200 dollars with edit HD.
0:29 Lenslinger Thanks Shawn! Slumber beckons…
0:29 Buck Are most stations against nat pkgs? I feel I can turn better first person stories…letting the people talk…than having a reporter do it.
0:29 kfatica G’night, Lenslinger!
0:29 goodfoot Ya, I’m out too…thanks. Hope to catch you again sometime
0:29 kfatica Buck, I think the trend is to stay away from nat packs, at least here in Cleveland…
0:30 Buck I think someone told me that FC Express won’t work with Sony XD HD. Not sure if that’s accurate.
0:30 Edit_Foundry Interesting…natpkgs…. we had 3 on our 9pm show yesterday…..one person telling a story…very efficient use of resources.
0:30 kfatica Hard news is king and softer news is being pushed to early AM or “odd” news hours.
0:30 Edit_Foundry If anything, I would say FCE won’t do HD, but will still keep the 16:9 aspect.
0:30 The Thing on The Sticks thats pretty much what I have seen as well I think most stations are just too invested in the tallent
0:30 Edit_Foundry I’m not sure Buck…but you can edit DVC HD
0:30 rmfranz thanks for the info, i’m out for the night.
0:31 Edit_Foundry Time to pick up my wife from the station across the street
0:31 Edit_Foundry What’s she do?
0:31 kfatica Not a whole lot of stations are doing HD in the field. File size is a major factor. If you save in MPEG2, like with Edius, you will be okay.
0:32 Buck I’ve got a PowerMac G5 at home…but it’s not Intel. It won’t handle some of the new, consumer HD formats out now.
0:32 kfatica Give Misty my best, Shawn! Kev, get Misty’s b-roll account going so she can join in the fun!
0:32 Edit_Foundry I enjoyed this. We’ll have to do it agian some time…she an assigment editor..check out her blog http://assignmenteditorminds.blogspot.com/ and follow her on twitter @msmistyj
0:33 Edit_Foundry I think someone actually posted a topic about that blog!
0:33 Edit_Foundry thank you everyone….keep the edits moving.
0:33 Edit_Foundry bye
0:33 kfatica Buck, I have an old dual G4 @ 1.25GHz running perfectly with FCP.
0:33 kfatica Good night, Shawn!
0:34 kfatica Good night, everybody! Back in the ‘hood.
0:34 Buck Mine works with FCP too, but it can’t handle the new avchd format (I think thats it)
0:34 Edit_Foundry I was excited about the new JVC camera coming out that works with SxS, but the chipset is only 1/3″.
0:36 kfatica Buck I didn’t consider AVCHD. Good thought. I have my MBPro, which sizzles with FCP.
0:36 Buck What time is rosenblum getting here? It ain’t a party without him.
0:36 Edit_Foundry What camera are you using with it?
0:36 Edit_Foundry God, don’t start.
0:36 Buck I don’t have a camera yet…looking at some of the consumer models for home use.
0:37 Edit_Foundry Are you using Final Cut Studio or Final Cut Express?
0:37 Buck FCP HD
0:38 kfatica Buck-Panasonic makes a nice AVCHD palmcorder model, or are you looking for mid-sized like an HVX-200?
0:38 Buck Everything I read says the Mac has to be Intel based to use it.
0:38 Edit_Foundry For FCS?
0:39 Edit_Foundry http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/specs/
0:39 The Thing on The Sticks anyways I gotta go bye
0:39 Edit_Foundry Later, sticks.
0:40 Buck Mine is stand alone FCP, not studio
0:40 kfatica Cleveland OUT.
0:40 Edit_Foundry I think you’ve probably got FCP5, then.
0:40 Shootblue isnt lake zurich near chicago
0:40 Edit_Foundry I don’t think they sell FCP by itself anymore.
0:40 Edit_Foundry Yeah, it’s a northwest suburb.
0:41 Shootblue their hs bb team played here today
0:41 Edit_Foundry Where’s “here?”
0:41 Shootblue springfield
0:41 Shootblue mo
0:41 Buck Yeah…it’s FCP 5…sorry
0:42 Shootblue i wa atatrack meet however
0:43 Buck Gotta run…later fellas
0:43 Edit_Foundry Later Buck.
0:43 Edit_Foundry I’m outta here, too.
0:43 Edit_Foundry Have a good night!
0:43 Shootblue u oo
0:43 Shootblue t