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Old 03-09-2017, 06:58 PM
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Default Staying on 2/3 inch camera or moving on?

Okay,

Here is the deal. For network news shoots, I am still using a Panasonic HDX900 with a Nano Flash, mainly due to it's 2/3 inch sensor.

I also still have a Panasonic HPX370 1/3 inch sensor camera, but with a top of the line 1/3 inch lens with a doubler. I use it for any FOX news/sports shoots and for local affiliates. Otherwise, I use the 900 for network.

The problem is, if I do a P2 gig, I'm stuck with the smaller CMOS chips, so lower image quality, than from the HDX900.

I could sell the 370 and 900 on Ebay and get MAYBE 5-6K all together. But, then I would have to buy a used or b-stock 2/3 inch P2 camera, such as an HPX3100 or HPX600, so I would have to invest some money back in.

Would it be worth even staying with P2? I also have a Canon C300, and I feel like a lot of content is leaning more towards large sensors, such as the C300 and Sony FS7.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:03 PM
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Well, the real question that you are asking is "should I stay and upgrade my ENG rig?"

You have two ENG cameras that do the same work, but use different recording formats. A little confused that the Fox and local news affiliates will only take P2? Any editing software will take any recording format(codec) with no problems. Aren't you handing over files, and not cards?

Since you own a C300, you know the lens limitation of large sensors. And ENG lens covers a big focal length compared to a large sensor zoom lens. The cost is high compared to an ENG lens. Also, it's one heck of a monster lens.

It comes down to the right camera for the right job. Or pay the big money to use a large sensor camera with a B4 adapter. On another board, there is a monster thread about using the correct lens.

It comes down to how much work the ENG cameras bring in. If the clients don't complain about the quality the footage of either of the ENG cameras, why should you? As long as the check clears. The cameras are paid for.

You don't mention how much sport shooting you do. If you do plenty, an ENG camera is a bit better, but like I said, you can get an adapter to use B4 HD glass on a C300.

Right now, the best solution that I have seen is the new Blackmagic Ursa Mini 4.6k Pro. CameraGod has the older version. The new version has ND filtes , use SD cards, and use B4, EF, PL, and Nikon mount lenses.

As least on paper, it looks it will have a long shelf life.

My two bits.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:18 PM
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Buy a Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 4.6k and sell all your other cameras. With its switchable mounts it does everything with all your existing glass... well except for the 1/3. As mentioned I bought the previous model... a month before the Pro came out @#$%ing @#$%... but it is still a good option. Got a Doco shoot today which is run and gun and a day of sit-downs tomorrow so I'll be ENG lens today and PL glass tomorrow.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...gicursaminipro
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:55 AM
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Very interesting. Some things about the Black Magic, the sensor supposedly is horrible in low light, and only good shooting exteriors or lit scenes indoors?? Not sure if the new version is like the older cameras. I am selling my P2 camera, and will continue using my HDX900 with a Nano Flash for all of my ENG shoots. It is 720p switchable, so I am covered for FOX. I am going to seriously consider a Sony FS7 Mark 2. I will give the Blackmagic a consideration if producers start calling for it.
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Old 03-14-2017, 12:22 PM
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I have heard about the low light problem, but don't remember what lenses are being used. Switching over to a FS7, I learned to look for fast lenses. Also, I did some low light testing. 12dbs on the FS7 with the kit 28-135. No noise. A larger sensor will help out in low light.

CameraGod, can you tell us how the Mini is in low light since you are using it with a B4 lens. I don't think anyone has posted that information.

As for clients asking for the camera? Too new to have a following The delay of the Mini coming out and some minor problems when it was delivered. The camera has a following with 'filmmakers." The Mini Pro seems to have the same guts as the other model. Most reviews of the camera are would be similar to the Mini Pro.

Since you already have a C300, why get a FS7? Both are popular cameras. If you have a large collection of Canon glass, those will work better with the C300. The advantage of the FS7 is the form factor, ability to use different lenses, and maybe the new Fuji lenses that came out for E-Mount only. Gee, I think I just convinced you to get one? What I am saying is you can use that money for new glass or accessories.

Good deal on keeping the 900 and selling the 370.

NAB is just around the corner. Wonder if it will have some surprises for us?
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:16 PM
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I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for calls for Black Magic cameras here in the states, nor would I in anticipation of any big camera releases at NAB this year, either.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:17 AM
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I think the bad low light thing is exaggerated. Its not as good as Canon C300's or the newer Sony and Panasonic but it is easily comparable to the last generation of XDcams so if that worked for you then not much of a problem now.
When i first got it I just ran out on the street at night to have a look.
This is shot at 50frames that uses more light and 800 ISO. Now if I wanted to shoot in lower light I'd go 25frames and 1600ISO... I think that would give me another 3 or 4 stops.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx...1FJVk1RNVJmNHM
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:33 AM
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Thanks for the example.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameragod View Post
I think the bad low light thing is exaggerated. Its not as good as Canon C300's or the newer Sony and Panasonic but it is easily comparable to the last generation of XDcams so if that worked for you then not much of a problem now.
When i first got it I just ran out on the street at night to have a look.
This is shot at 50frames that uses more light and 800 ISO. Now if I wanted to shoot in lower light I'd go 25frames and 1600ISO... I think that would give me another 3 or 4 stops.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx...1FJVk1RNVJmNHM
I have shot this camera for some corporate stuff in dark rooms I will second Stephen on this. I would put it about on par with my PMW-400.

I actually think the new pro version they jut announced could become a contender for production work as well as corporate multi cam. I still run into a lot of outfits using D-50 heads for I-Mag and streaming type uses. The Black magic beats that setup hands down and is a very viable replacement.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:56 PM
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From the BMD Forum

Michael Moore wrote:Sony FS7 have 2000 native ISO and a clear pictures up near to 6400 ISO. Sony FS5 have 3200 native ISO and a clear pictures up 6400 ISO. Panasonic AG DVX 200 have also a clear pictures near 6400 ISO.
All those cameras are using heavy de-noising post-processing in camera. If you have seen how noisy RAW footage from the Sony FS7 is, you wouldn't talk about it having clean pictures...

What even the BMCC is capable after de-noising in post I have shown here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57062#p327539

No problem to push the ISO1600 footage another +4 stops or +24 dB
Click the preview images for 1920x1080 image.

ISO 1600 / shutter 180° / similar to what I could see with my bare eyes


ISO 1600 / shutter 360° / +4 stops pulled in post


ISO 1600 / shutter 360° / +4 stops pulled in post / + heavy noise reduction
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:46 PM
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Personally, I'd stick with what you have for now because in the near future A full size 2/3" or 1" ENG 4K camera is going to hit the market. While nothing is being broadcast in 4K, I foresee networks wanting it shot in 4K for the extra resolution in post. I know our station put off replacing cameras in anticipation of going 4K with the next purchase. If I were you I'd wait it out a few years.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svp View Post
Personally, I'd stick with what you have for now because in the near future A full size 2/3" or 1" ENG 4K camera is going to hit the market.
The future is here already:
Sony PXW-Z450
4K 2/3" full-size shoulder-mount camcorder.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...rder_body.html
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:27 AM
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That didn't take long.

Can I ask for a unicorn?
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:17 AM
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I think it's been two maybe three years since some 4K/UHD 2/3" cams started hitting the market. Sony actually has some 4K/UHD "live" handheld cams that are available with 2/3" or s35 sensor. But, I believe, all or most of the 2/3" 4K cameras(at least handheld) are SINGLE chip cameras, NOT three chip like SD and HD have been. And CMOS not CCD.
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Old 03-29-2017, 05:41 PM
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The Sony HDC-4300 has been the workhorse camera for 4K live production for a few years now. It looks fantastic and if you watch any high-end sports programming, you've seen them in action. Like you say, it's CMOS not CCD, but what difference does it make? With a camera that looks that good, the debate over CCD vs. CMOS is moot. I'm sure you'll never see a CCD 4K camera for sports or ENG.

As for 3 sensors vs. 1, the 4300 has three but Sony newest flagship 4K production camera is the HDC-4800. Absolutely gorgeous picture and fully compatible with all B4 lenses. It has only one sensor. It's an amazing camera that can do 400 fps in 4K and 800 fps in full HD. But you won't be getting that in an ENG camera anytime soon. The 4800 is just the camera head, all the important electronics that make it work are stacked in a rack in the remote truck.

So, just because a camera only has one sensor or is CMOS instead of CCD is not enough to make any judgement calls about it's quality or capabilities. Seeing is believing.

I've had a my hands on Z450 a little bit and it looked very good to my eyes. I hope to get a demo unit after NAB and see what it can really do out in the field. I thought I would have had a loaner already but they are barely shipping and are in short supply.
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Old 03-29-2017, 06:02 PM
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I wasn't trying to make any implication that the single chip version was inferior visually. Just stating the info.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
The future is here already:
Sony PXW-Z450
4K 2/3" full-size shoulder-mount camcorder.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...rder_body.html
Thanks Doug. I hadn't seen that camera until now. This is exactly what I've been waiting for.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:39 PM
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I forgot to mention that any PXW-400 (HD only) can turned into a full-blown Z450 (4K) if you want to upgrade it.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...0_upgrade.html

I'm pretty sure that these are the two cameras Sony is going to assign to me again this year at NAB (it was just a Z450 prototype last year) so I'll have a lot more information by this time next month. Maybe even some actual hands-on shooting around Vegas if they'll let me take it for a test drive.
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:08 PM
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Sony let me take the PXW-Z450 for a couple of weeks after NAB. It's a great camera and is basically a 4K version of my old F800.

Here's a four minute highlights reel at Vimeo:
https://vimeo.com/220051985
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