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Old 02-26-2010, 08:37 AM
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I have to say, I was getting tired of the latest group of posers that have been popping up at B-Roll Online.

Posers. People who lie about their experience and abilities and pose as something they are not and/or never have been. Not that it's something new in this business. But lately here at B-Roll there seem to be more than our fair share of goof balls making wild claims and spreading false or misleading information about how to do the job. it's been giving me a sour taste in my mouth.

People who claim they've been in the business 20 years but don't know what is or isn't public property. People who, with all those years of claimed experience, somehow can't bring themselves to shoot a body bag at a crime scene. Quick to paint all unions with a wide brush even though they've never held a network job or worked in a union shop themselves. Thinking a network job is just like their Hooterville job.

The worst, to me, are those who create several i.d.s...then debate with themselves. Silly junk that is quite common at several other well known media message boards but, for some reason here at B-Roll Online, we've been able to avoid it...for the most part.

Yes, we've even had a long time fellow who loved to practice his creative writing skills. Changing i.d.s every year or two. Starting and then promoting a blog supposedly written by a young news photographer in a smaller market. Having conversations with himself. Then shrilly criticizing people if they dared to suggest the blog was based on a fake person. A silly waste of time and, to me, behavior which cheapened the quality Kev has hosted here.

I've seen B-Roll grow quite a bit over the years. In the early days there was no registration. Then the debate about whether to register members. Then the discussion about needing real names or to allow people to hide behind anonymous i.d.s. Yes, there are reasons for people to prefer "anonymous" when dealing with difficult, touchy situations in their real lives that might cause retribution if it was known they were discussing the situation in an internet forum. Many managers would not appreciate dirty laundry being aired here, or anywhere.

Now we have the PRO Forum. A place where names are required to participate. It makes me wonder if the rest of the B-Roll Online forum will become just an extention of the UNCENSORED section. More kids posing and lying for no other reason than their own entertainment at the expense of others.

I have decided to lay back a bit. Still visiting the other sections of B-Roll's forums from time to time but...when I see silly claims of malls being open to all who want to shoot video...I just shake my head. One example among several types of threads. Knowing misinformation will cause confusion to the uneducated and inexperienced. Not to mention hurting the reputation of B-Roll Online.

As some have mentioned before...we used to have a much higher participation from experienced people. People who have now chosen to limit or completely abandon any participation here due to the goof ball posers. A valuable resource which once made B-Roll Online better than...you know what I mean.

Please do not misunderstand. I'm all for having fun and even disagreeing strongly with others. What has bothered me lately are the prolific posters of late who have obvious little or no real world experience. Yet they want to puff themselves up with lies. Arguing just for the sake of arguing. With no real interest in doing anything other than tossing anonymous insults.

So...is this new forum going to be a place you'll visit more often? Or is it the beginning of the end of an educated exchange between people looking to learn and grow no matter how many years of experience they have?

Will you think about creating a second member i.d. here so you can have what some might consider the "best" of both worlds? A named membership and an un-named membership so you can join in on the playground bully behavior some prefer. Trading insults and lying about who you are and what you know?

It's been quite a few years since I visited or posted on some of the other well known media forums. Too full of fakes. It's THE reason I prefer B-Roll Online. A classier place where we can still disagree but...not to the extent of the insanity which exists elsewhere.

Thank you Kev for, once again, making every effort to accommodate as many of us as possible. Maintaining a higher level of discourse and making this a positive place for people to visit and learn.

Last edited by Lensmith; 02-27-2010 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:28 AM
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But..what if there's a body bag IN the mall...by the GNC? Can you shoot it?
I was telling my girlfriend about this hoo-ha on the board last night,and related this story.
We were up in Bismark, ND,running all over the place for a story. The local affiliate had given us the photogs' ready room as our edit bay.The shooters would drift in and out getting their gear.Most would look over our shoulders at what we were cutting and say," Nice shot", or," Hey you can get an even better shot if go to such-and-such.." All very helpful. Except one guy. He'd always be in a huff,grumbling under his breath.Finally, my soundie just said, " Are we in your way or something?"
Well, this guy launched into a tirade of how HE didn't need a soundman or a producer. He did EVERYTHING himself and edited it to boot.Just went off on us.He finished,waiting for an argument.Our correspondent, Jeff Flock, just said, " Sorry you feel that way." Of course, all four of us in that room; talent,producer,soundman,myself had worked as one-man crews. Any of us could have picked up that guy's gear and gone out and done his job better than him.
I guess some of these guys just think we get tapped on the shoulder with a magic wand and " Poof",you're network.They don't understand the hard work that goes before it.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:31 AM
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Nice blog, John.

Hopefully the level of discourse will rise again.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:57 AM
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I don't get what the "reputation" and "infraction" icons do. Also, what is the little square under "join date" and why is it sometimes green?

I realize asking these questions may threaten my pro status; but...

And John: I live in Hooterville (Actually, when I go to Hooterville I'm going into town, that's how far out in the boonies I live.) but I service markets in the big cities under a semi-retired, freelance business model. Can I still come here?
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:05 AM
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Charles,

The "reputation" and "infraction" icons are only effective to the PRO user group. This is meant to allow the group as a whole to compliment or condemn users in the PRO forum. If a users reputation falls below a certain point, they'll drop off of the PRO group and return to "registered" member status.

This system is in testing at the moment, so it's not going to kick you off just yet.

Best regards,

kev
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2010, 11:21 AM
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Okay, thanks. But how come some members have the "infraction" icon and some don't? And I'm still wondering what the little box is under the join date... the one that is green, sometimes.

I'll get it, eventually. I'm old, you know.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:20 PM
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You said..."The worst, to me, are those who create several i.d.s...then debate among themselves"

I guess I missed this.... examples? of list if need be....
Maybe I thought they were all real people?
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:39 PM
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I too have been quite surprised by some of the answers to posts from people claiming to have this amount of years in the business or that amount of years....but its the internet and we are in completely unregulated territory. With that said...I tend to approach posting threads for two reasons...1) for me to actually get an answer from TV veterans that can offer me some good advice and 2) to post a general thread so it benefits a rookie I have been mentoring or something I've overheard that may help a small market newbie. I think I tend to approach some of the posts here by applying my BS filter so I can wade through the nonsense and avoid any unwanted confrontations with folks....not that I am a confrontational type of guy but somethings that come out of peoples mouth is truly amazingly ignornant. So yes I hope to find much more civil discussions here and I feel it will house more relevant info my taste....but I won't ignore the General Forum for the sake of adding something worthwhile to a conversation over there.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b-roll View Post
Charles,

The "reputation" and "infraction" icons are only effective to the PRO user group. This is meant to allow the group as a whole to compliment or condemn users in the PRO forum. If a users reputation falls below a certain point, they'll drop off of the PRO group and return to "registered" member status.

This system is in testing at the moment, so it's not going to kick you off just yet.

Best regards,

kev
I'm looking forward to doing my best not to insult people yet likely doing a poor job of it, and conversely, sad about the day I will be demoted to no longer having the privilege to post here.

Is conversely the right word?
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:56 PM
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I think you meant "consequently,"




Poopyhead.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:58 PM
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That's ten demerits.
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster View Post
I think you meant "consequently,"




Poopyhead.
Careful or Imma click on the Amish slow moving sign in the upper right hand corner of your post.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:25 PM
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Me thinks we have a few "trolls" stalking the forums. According to Wikipedia "A troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages on a forum intended to cause a disruption in discourse". Rather than engage the trolls in "debate", let's vote'em off the island! I always looked at b-roll as place to trade tips and tricks, help out someone in need of information, and maybe blow off a bit of steam after a long shoot. Lately it's been a bunch of flame wars. I'll admit I'm a little nervous posting on the "pro" forum as I believe I'm just "semi-pro" :-)
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:46 PM
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I was just noticing there is a discussion in the General Discussions forum that has several people with under 50 posts responding to it. As Curly used to say: "Maybe it's just a coinkydink."
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:18 PM
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I wrote my long rant...out of frustration.

But I need to make something clear.

First, this is all Kev's.

He's king.

But to me, this pro forum is for people who consider themselves professional.
I don't care how long a person has been doing the job.

In my mind, a person who is just starting out can be considered professional...if they are honest. I respect anyone who wants to learn or contribute to an exchange of ideas but, after some long thought, what has become most important to me is the honesty.

But that's just me.

It's one big reason I'm very happy Kev has set up this experiment and I'll be interested to see where it takes us!
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:36 PM
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Sir Lensmith (John),

Your 'rant' should serve as the Pro Forum's Mission Statement. Like you, I treasure the b-roll message board forum, but have almost stopped contributing to it altogether due to the codswallop that passes as discourse these days. I still lurk heavily; often gathering story ideas. But my time is too short to waste words on some infantile demagogue bent on assbaggery. This Pro Forum could alleviate that somewhat and I applaud Kevin's concern. But I fear runaway trolls are the curse of the message board universe. At least they're not bloggers; those guys are really blowhards...
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:30 PM
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John, I was standing on my feet shouting "Truth!". Fact is, you are a man of much greater fortitude than I, you've been here and stayed here. Take a look at the number of my posts, it's like the tell tale stopped clock at the scene of the crime riddled with meaningless barbs and pointless attacks. I got to 500 around the time b-roll started getting weighed down with some really vicious trolls.
I've been hanging around and reading but too wary to really wade in. I've started trying to get more involved in the the craft in general and this is definitely an important part of our workshop (John you'll be delighted and horrified that I'm working with my NPPA region to do some good). This PRO forum is a great idea.

Proud member of the b-roll class of May 2001 - AT
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:06 AM
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So I type out a two page rant in Word, copy and just before I post find John has said it all... but better... and shorter.
I'm looking forward to see how this goes.
Kevin you never cease to amaze!!!
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:26 PM
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This whole concept is refreshing! I was getting tired of some of the stuff on other boards. I'm too old for most of the chest-pounding and mindless drivel that seems to occupy a great deal of bandwidth elsewhere.

BTW, Lensmith...I figured you'd be on a plane right now, southbound.

I'm off to a swanky party* in downtown LA and my phone's off.


* I'm forced to get my tie out and wear it.
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R. Busse View Post
BTW, Lensmith...I figured you'd be on a plane right now, southbound.
Nope, I'm stuck doing "local" but I just dropped my wife off at the airport. She'll be in Chile with her crew by 6am tomorrow.

One of those days I can't help but be a little jealous...
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