ABC's camera announcement

[Skipcam]

Is anyone here currently supplying CBS with an XDCAM disk shot at SD 4:3 on one of the current 1/2 inch XDCAMs? I've asked that question of the local network Buro and their eyes glaze over. And will ABC accept it? I e-mailed that question to Williams at ABC but I bet that never gets answered. OMB: What was AMK's answer about the 1/2 inch XDCAM? The CBS O&Os are using that camera in the SD mode for quite some time now. Even if somone would just say no, we don't want that, it would help with the decisions we all have to make. But most people you speak to at the Networks have absolutly no idea what you're talking about! Sounds to me like that 700 camera is at least another year away from one of us getting delivery, if not more.

[must-c-tv]

For those of you who don't work overseas often - the transmission costs are very high.

For example, the standard is $1,000 for 10 minutes from AP, or EBU or state TV channels around in the world. In Africa it can be even higher - up to $3,000 for 10 minutes out of Nairobi. In Pakistan during the recent return of Bhutto, most networks were booking at least an hours worth of satellite time a day. That single story alone was easily $75,000 worth of sat. feeds for ABC - plus the hire of crews etc.

I don't know what it's like to do HD feeds out of Boston or Idaho - but over the course of a year, millions are spent on international satellite feeds by the networks/

Why buy a camera format HD that you can't send back the lovely 1080i pictures who shot. And, it's just news at the end of the day - the archive value of HD is less than a network like Discovery Channel.

I'm interested to see what kind of a deal ABC is getting on the SD XDCam cameras. The ancient Ikegami's ABC have are held together by gaffer's tape.

[dhart]

Knowing how stingy the mouse has become I suspect those 510s are going to be around a lot longer than memo indicates. In other words I doubt they're gonna dump the 510s when the 700 comes out. I suspect that after analog goes dark they're going to stand pat with SD widescreen for many years to come. My two cents worth.

[cameragod]

It’s a strange world at the moment where everyone wants something different.
My main client over here is TVNZ. If I’m shooting for their productions I am SDXD IMX 50. If I’m shooting for a news show they want SDXD IMX 30, for transfer and archive storage reasons.
For a few small corporate and doco shoots I’m SDXD DVcam.

It’s all coming of one XD 530 camera. I have put record format on the first page of the user menu for easy assess and an indicator in the viewfinder just so I can keep up.
At the moment we have to hire for HD but not enough to make it worth while buying an HD cam. How long will that last? Who can say?

[Run&Gun]

2 steps forward, one step back...

[ED Scott]

The 510's are what $16k? In reality, that will be amortized pretty easily over the course of the next 12-18 months. Now why they have not started acquiring footage in 16x9 starting yesterday I do not know. It seems kind of idiotic that no network has gone wide-screen.

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by Onemanbanned

ABC must have gotten a sweetheart deal.

Bingo!

It also saves ABC a big chunk of money buying new HD lenses for its entire staff.

Watch how Sony turns those PDW 510s magically into PDW 7xx cameras when they become readily available.

...and why would I buy an HD camera without 24p, when 95% of my HD shoots are already by request in 24p?

[dazapper]

There are certainly more tech savy cameramen out there than I, but the bottom line I look for is the bottom line. If ABC is dictating which format to buy, if any of us want to continue working for them, then we must sign up. Like when we simply wanted to work for them, we had to join their union and buy their camera choice at that time, Beta. So if they are dictating SD XDCam, than I guess that's what I'll buy, unless of course they'll be taking Varicam, then I'll be happy. But at what rate? Will they continue paying the HD rate for the camera if they plan on downconverting it to SD? Then the choice becomes turning them down and waiting for an HD client at more cash. Such a dilemma.

It was previously written that the 510 camera will cost about $20K. Now if ABC and Sony can make an agreement to get the network these cameras, maybe they can also offer a discount to their largest secondary workforce, all of us freelancers who are directly affected by their marriage. If we all buy this camera, what will their rate be for daily rentals? Will we be offered a fair market price 2 years from their purchase when it's time to upgrade to HD? Or are they expecting all of us to take the financial hit for them?

[dayrate]

If memory serves me correctly ... last time ABC made a big camera purchase, they chose/designed the Ike V59.

I had a V55 stolen during the same time frame ('98). I tried to go w/ the V59 as a replacement, rather than the V55 (Newer technology - digital setup instead of analog, etc)

ABC had dibs on the first 80 cameras to be delivered. They weren't going to take all of them, so their "frontline" freelancers were to have a crack at the new cameras. I tried to get one as I occasionally did some ABC work (about 3 or 4 days a month). My understanding was if you did approx 4 or 5 days/week for ABC, you stood a chance of getting one, otherwise, not so much. Back when CBS "decided" on SX, and most recently XDSD, there was a flurry of emails between those of us doing a large amount of magazine work for them, wondering if CBS might help us out in terms of a group purchase, should we decide to go that route. That was the extent of it. A flurry of emails.

My lesson learned: don't count on a network to help set you up in terms of equipment deals. I can't imagine anything has changed for them or us in the past few years. And frankly, why should it? They don't have the time or need to worry about us. They are tech managers and accountants in business to make decisions geared towards those signing their paychecks.

My decision regarding ABC's camera will be based, like I imagine everyone's will be ... based one my own specific situation, preferences, and "risk-management" ... or pucker power!

My Ike Betacam is in Dedham spending Christmas w/ Roger and his elves. I've closed out the books for the year. It's been a good one, but a little lopsided. And that's unusual for me. I only shot one day for NBC. About a dozen or so for ABC, but averaged 10-12 a month w/ CBS' "deadly" magazine show, so based only on this past year, I won't risk the farm for that (ABC) alone. However, ABC is typically a good client, it's just that this past year has been off for them since we've often been busy with another client.

My Beta is native 16x9. Both lenses are switchable. (I also have the Panasonic HDX-900and the Ike DV7W). I imagine I'll take the wait and see corner to see how much they need us, hoping eventually when I do take the plunge into the disk-based world, it's w/ another HD camera. Due to clients liking 24p, I can't imagine buying a camera without it, at least in the current marketplace.

But who knows? It's a big o'l goofy world out there. I'm curious to hear what everyone has to say. Best of the holidays to ya'll!

[Run&Gun]

If a client is a MAJOR source/portion of your income and they say, "We want camera X", then that's a major motivating factor...

That was my reason for buying a VariCam. ESPN said that's what they wanted, so that's what I bought. I would guess that 90% of my days for them were with my VariCam this year and the majority of my days overall.

As much as I think it's a mistake for them to be going with a "new" SD format, if you're doing the majority of your days for them, it has to come into play. But I think that camera is a one trick pony. I don't see other people calling and asking for it(I've been asked for DVCAM once in 10 years). I knew that with the VariCam, I would shoot with other clients with it. The 510 is DVCAM on a Disc... Period.

No one has really been interested in DVCAM on the "broadcast" side of things since it's been out, but now it's on a disc instead of tape, so hey let's switch to a 10 year old SD format when the future is HD.

I just thank God that I shoot for a Disney company that makes money...

I just hope that the decks they're installing will do SD and HD so the infastructure will eventually be there. Which is the major HD holdback everywhere. HD cams are everywhere, it's the infastructure that's the bottleneck.

[cameragod]

Tom the 530 is an SD only camera but does up convert to HD quite well. We got two because we had work for XD and now two years on they are good earners. A year or two of hire we would have missed without XD… but for how much longer? The when to buy an HD camera question is a biggie. We don’t have much local work for HD but is that because we are not seen as an HD source? If you buy one, they will come?
I think we will stick to SD as long as it is working well for us.

[2000lux]

Originally Posted by Hiding Under Here

CG, I wrote the wrong model number. I have changed it to the 350. Honestly, though, I think the PDW-700 is the only real answer.

IF it does DV CAM as well!

I'm glad they're adding 720P, but I hope they keep DV-CAM 4/3 & 16/9 too for my clients who want that too.

[cameragod]

I’d be happy never to have to use DVcam as a format again. Even the difference between IMX30 and IMX50 on the same camera is painfully noticeable, shooting DVcam after IMX 50 feels like I may as well be shooting VHS…
...still if that’s what the client wants… the customer is always right… especially when they are wrong.

[SimonW]

Hear what you're saying about the 510 (still a damn great camera though. I love mine and much prefer it over the 350/330 even if those cameras are high def)

I'm not sure the 700 will do what I need though. So I'm hanging onto my 510 for longer. Truth be told I've got my eye on a Red.

So, ABC. On the surface an odd decision, but from what I can tell, an interim one. I'm sure they are privvie to forthcoming XDCAM camera announcements that the rest of us aren't.

There has to be more to this behind the scenes. Actually it is quite funny given ABC's connection with the BBC which is going P2.

[Canonman]

Originally Posted by Hiding Under Here

Canonman, I reread your response. The hang up with the HD XDCams would appear to be that they shoot 1080 and ABC has gone to 720.

The 720P is an issue with the current model so that may be a deal breaker. The 700 is supposed to be able to shoot the SD stuff as well. The 24P was considered non-essential to the ENG market at which the PDW-700 is aimed. I truly expected ABC to go with the 700 and as was alluded to above, that may still happen.

So to clarify once again Tom, the F350 (or 355) will shoot both PAL or NTSC DVCAM in 4:3 or 16:9 . In HD, it shoots 3 different data rates in 1080i resolution at 60i, 30P, 24P, 50i, and 25P.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of assistance in sorting this out. The current 1/2 camera produces images good enough for several television shows and if ABC is going DVCAM, they have no room to complain about the current 1/2 cameras as they are not going to be the weakest link in that chain.

cm

[Flaca Productions]

cm - i think i heard a rumor that the 24p (and under/overcrank) capability would be a future firmware upgrade to the 700...have you heard this?

i'll admit to being very confused here as to a) what i need and b) what's out there and what is and what is not coming down the pike for me to choose from.

i think my next HD purchase will be a lens and a monitor....sigh.

(CM - and tom - expect some PM's from me in the future on this topic)

[freedom]

How many freelancers shoot for ABC regularly? How many of those shooters will buy this oddball setup? What will they do when no shooter is available with their format?
They are creating a real chicken/egg problem that will not be solved.
If nobody buys their limited use camera, they will be forced to go another route.
F 'em!

[Canonman]

Originally Posted by Onemanbanned

any XDCAM which has been manufactured to this point, whether SD or HD records on the format which ABC has chosen, period.

Exactly! They'll all shoot DVCAM format. Since you also mentioned convoluted methods of delivery, I'll add that it's not too hard to take 1080i and bump it down to 720P using the DVCPRO HD codec in an NLE. That's why I felt I had most bases covered with the F350 back in 2006 when I bought it. I'm keeping a keen watch on the Flash XDR recorder also. And now that the little EX has hit the market, there is NLE support for a 720P flavor of XDCAM.

@Brian,

The rumor of 24P may pan out. But I think Sony may be taking precaution not to step on the toes of the F950 by giving the 700 too many bells and whistles. If they get enough feedback that no 24P is a deal breaker, then I'm sure it will find its way in there at some point. If so, you can see how this camera will become the Swiss army knife of acquisition formats.

cm

[2000lux]

Originally Posted by cameragod

I’d be happy never to have to use DVcam as a format again... still if that’s what the client wants… the customer is always right… especially when they are wrong.

Exactly. I'd be happy not shoot DV-CAM ever again either (assuming I was shooting some thing better). However, whatever the client wants, the client gets - which is a theme of this thread.

[Flaca Productions]

Originally Posted by Canonman

@Brian,

The rumor of 24P may pan out. But I think Sony may be taking precaution not to step on the toes of the F950 by giving the 700 too many bells and whistles. If they get enough feedback that no 24P is a deal breaker, then I'm sure it will find its way in there at some point. If so, you can see how this camera will become the Swiss army knife of acquisition formats.

cm

yeah, i understand that - but give me 24p and keep over/undercrank for the 950....
(sorry macro - i know that would KILL you!)