#21  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TightShot View Post
It just baffled me that ALL of this was overlooked for so long.
Let me let you in on a reality that I don't think you've learned yet, and about which many, many people (including photogs) are in denial:

Generally speaking, managers care less about how good you are and more about how friendly you are.

I'm not suggesting that you're really unfriendly. What I'm saying is that the smiling moron who can't figure out the filter wheel but always seems earnest and happy will usually be favored over the skilled photog who doesn't smile. When the incompetent keeps smiling and being friendly, the manager wants to give him the benefit of the doubt... and does. When the skilled person gets irritated with something and lets it show, the manager will discount the value of the skills and won't have sympathy for the anger. The guy who can't get a shot in focus but never complains about being sh*t on is seen as a "team player." The one who resists taking sh*t, even mentally, is seen as "difficult."

I sympathize with you, because I'm generally not a suckup and tend to say what's on my mind. People don't like that. You see it in this thread. You expected people to share your irritation, but instead they're seeing you as the problem. I'm guessing your managers see you as too ambitious and are content to keep you down, while they see the other happy-go-lucky guy as deserving a little extra help.

What you will need to do is keep your mouth shut and your head down, finish school, get a tape together and get a job offer elsewhere. But don't think it will be better at your next job. You'll always find favoritism, whether it has to do with money, or stories, or the shifts you're given. Your only real hope to break out of that is to find one of the few managers who values skill over moronic smiling, or to become the boss yourself and hire for skill.

It never really goes away, but it does get easier after you learn to accept reality. And this isn't just with photogs. This is everywhere. I'm out of the television business now, and I see it among financial professionals. The ones who move ahead are the ones who have the best people skills.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:41 PM
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... managers care less about how good you are and more about how friendly you are.

I'm not suggesting that you're really unfriendly. What I'm saying is that the smiling moron who can't figure out the filter wheel but always seems earnest and happy will usually be favored over the skilled photog who doesn't smile.
But I DO smile. I am friends with the officers we interview, my reporters and I are friends, and I often joke around in the newsroom.

Quote:
You expected people to share your irritation, but instead they're seeing you as the problem. I'm guessing your managers see you as too ambitious and are content to keep you down, while they see the other happy-go-lucky guy as deserving a little extra help.

What you will need to do is keep your mouth shut and your head down, finish school, get a tape together and get a job offer elsewhere. But don't think it will be better at your next job. You'll always find favoritism, whether it has to do with money, or stories, or the shifts you're given. Your only real hope to break out of that is to find one of the few managers who values skill over moronic smiling, or to become the boss yourself and hire for skill.

It never really goes away, but it does get easier after you learn to accept reality. And this isn't just with photogs. This is everywhere. I'm out of the television business now, and I see it among financial professionals. The ones who move ahead are the ones who have the best people skills.
To be dissatisfied with a situation doesn't mean I am an "unhappy" or "unsmiling" person. I know a photog like that. His face should be next to the word "sourpuss" in the dictionary. I am not like that. I love to laugh and have fun. I love to joke around. And my ND's words last week concerning this lax kid were, "he doesn't know what the hell he wants," and "he's not gonna be here for long." He said this while teaching me how to post video and stories on our website.

But I am sure you are all right--they cannot recognize someone who is incapable of doing his job and will immediately put me down for showing spirit and an independent mind.
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2008, 10:02 AM
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Sounds like TV news to me - it ain't fair by a long shot. You're going to graduate soon and at age 22 you may still have a few things to learn yourself. So here's some things that may help. Lesson One. You won't change the culture where you work so you can change the place where you work. If they don't appreciate your talents - move. Two. You are not indispensable. There's always someone that will work longer and for less money than you. Three. It's not about talent - it's about money (see Two). Four. We all face bias of some sort. The best you can hope for is to end up somewhere that things are better.

If you go home at the end of the day, you did your best, you continue to grow and improve and you are proud of your work then you have succeeded.

Best of Luck!
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Old 05-06-2008, 03:31 PM
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Maybe I missed something here, but what exactly did the ND tell you when you went in to ask about the pay disparity?
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Old 05-06-2008, 07:03 PM
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...at age 22 you may still have a few things to learn yourself. So here's some things that may help.
I am actually 29 this August.

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Lesson One. You won't change the culture where you work so you can change the place where you work.
I am working on that.


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If they don't appreciate your talents - move.
Unfortunately, I can't move AND finish my degree without potentially losing credits in transition to another university. So I am stuck in this city and market for now.

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Two. You are not indispensable. There's always someone that will work longer and for less money than you.
Yeah. Those people are called "illegals" and can't work in the media--they have to be able to converse in the same language as the people we interview. I know I am not indispensible. But there's a reason the only person they found to hire for the other photog position is that lax kid I have mentioned--he was the only person who volunteered to take the job. We start out as SLIGHTLY ABOVE what minimum wage WILL be next month.

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Three. It's not about talent - it's about money (see Two). Four. We all face bias of some sort. The best you can hope for is to end up somewhere that things are better.

If you go home at the end of the day, you did your best, you continue to grow and improve and you are proud of your work then you have succeeded.

Best of Luck!
It's true that we all face bias. But it is a fact that women work harder to earn less money in any field of work. Didn't anyone see "King of the Hill" this past Sunday?

And to AK:

When I addressed the pay disparity, he suggested that it was just the "business manager" rounding up the kid's pay. Though she didn't bother to "round" mine $0.01 up to an even sum.

I could go back to the first station I worked at--they want me back and have a higher pay rate. But I have loyalty to my co-workers and ND. But the economy SUCKS and gas costs are rising... I am in a crisis of decision... I just posted this on here because I couldn't fathom them paying that kid more than I make, or more than ANY EXPERIENCED shooter makes. Thanks for all of your feedback.
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Last edited by TightShot; 05-07-2008 at 10:49 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-06-2008, 08:11 PM
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I have loyalty to my co-workers and ND. But the economy SUCKS and gas costs are rising... I am in a crisis of decision... I just posted this on here because I couldn't fathom them paying that kid more than I make, or more than ANY EXPERIENCED shooter makes.
TightShot,

I've been following this thread for the last few days and appreciate your situation.

You should be making the same as the other guy...if not more.

Your loyalty is to be commended but, with time, you will understand there is a limit to loyalty. Especially when those you feel loyal to don't make sure you get paid what you deserve and blatantly pay others more for less.

Finish school and get the heck out of that place. Don't settle for less. Settling for less now means you will always settle for less and that is what many are counting on. It's up to you to make sure that doesn't happen.

Good luck.
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2008, 09:18 PM
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Tightshot it’s not about you being female or competent or even pleasant to work with… let me tell you how it works.

You bust your ass every day and then when a Head of Cameras position comes up you don’t even get an interview as the ND hires a guy he met in a pub and because they both come from the same town, in a drunken homesick moment the ND say’s “I’ve got a job you can have.”
So it turns out the new head Muppet has never shot news in his life. At the same time as turning up all sorts of unusable crap he goes on endlessly about ‘you don’t know anything about hard work until you’ve worked in children’s programs.’
Along with that moral builder he takes all the overseas travel claiming he can’t trust anyone else in the camera department and then assigns you on with him for three days to teach him how to feed from the camera. ‘Oh and how does that white balance thingy go?’

The complaints from reporters stack up but the ND can’t admit that anything is wrong as that would mean admitting that management made a mistake. Meanwhile the camera department is hemorrhaging talent because nobody likes working under Mr Muppet.

Finally a catastrophic cock up that not even the felt skinned one can survive… he is hauled up in front of the ND and with wide innocent eyes he says’s ‘Who me? Give me one other example of me doing something wrong.’

Because nobody kept any records there is no other evidence of his incompetence. Just hearsay.

He continues as before but fearing for his astronomical record braking salary and correctly realizing nobody on the planet would employ him, actually starts to learn how to do his job.

But it’s too late the massive resentment he has earned him the undying hate of the entire news room.

Just as he finally gets to the point where he can almost carry his own weight and is not a total liability the ND fires him over some imagined misdemeanor and hires the carpet layer who he got stoned with on holiday.

I can’t tell you how often I’ve seen variations of this theme repeated in newsroom around the world.
Don’t let it make you bitter… (I really should take my own advice)
If something he does messes with you keep a record of it (I write it in red pen ) Other than that he is not your problem… there will always be people like him.

Don't stay were you aren't appreciated, get out when you can and good luck
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2008, 10:51 AM
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Why do you have loyalty to the ND if he has no loyalty to you?
Basically, you're getting paid the way you are because they have no reason to pay you any more. They know you're not going to a different station. They know you've got to finish school. They know you're a good person and wont make a loud stink about it. You'll find that most of the time, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I know that being a good, loyal team player feels like the right thing to do, but somethimes you're going to have to fight to get what you deserve. This probably has nothing to do with being a man or a women...it's just about accepting things that you should be fighting over.
Have you talked to the buisness manager?
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  #29  
Old 05-07-2008, 10:54 AM
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Lensmith--THANK YOU. What is it about guys with "Lens" in their names that makes them so f*cking cool?

Cameragod, thanks for your response. That scenario is horrible and it sounds like you are all to familiar with it. I'm sorry.
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2008, 11:29 AM
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When I was chief, we had a young guy out of school who was an intern that we hired full time. He was green, but understood the fundamentals and had potential to be a solid shooter.

A few months later, he quit. He secretly went to another station in town and got a job there for a slight raise. I was upset at loosing him, but more angry that he didn't come to me first and explain he we recruited from another station for more money.

I would have gladly given him a raise to keep him. So if I was you, go talk to the other station, get an idea of pay, and offer to your boss that the other station wants you and will pay you more. They will either match that pay to keep you, or you'll know where you stand with mag't and feel free to take the other job for more money.

Management will never offer a raise, in most cases. If they think they can keep you around for a lower pay, why would they want to pay more? Sucks, but its true. Go talk to the other station, see what they have to say, and look out for yourself because you got bills to pay.
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  #31  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:09 PM
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When I was chief, we had a young guy out of school who was an intern that we hired full time. He was green, but understood the fundamentals and had potential to be a solid shooter.

A few months later, he quit. He secretly went to another station in town and got a job there for a slight raise. I was upset at loosing him, but more angry that he didn't come to me first and explain he we recruited from another station for more money.

I would have gladly given him a raise to keep him. So if I was you, go talk to the other station, get an idea of pay, and offer to your boss that the other station wants you and will pay you more. They will either match that pay to keep you, or you'll know where you stand with mag't and feel free to take the other job for more money.

Management will never offer a raise, in most cases. If they think they can keep you around for a lower pay, why would they want to pay more? Sucks, but its true. Go talk to the other station, see what they have to say, and look out for yourself because you got bills to pay.

Unfortunately, that is where I am at. My ND's response was, "I sure don't want to lose you. Let me know what you decide."

Their loss, I guess.
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  #32  
Old 05-08-2008, 09:46 AM
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I have an ethics question for you: I am a female photographer who is a senior at a university majoring in mass comm. I have three years experience shooting and running lives. My station just hired a 19 year old kid with no experience and no schooling to be our weekend photog. He has been shooting for a month and a half, and still shoots on filter 2 with the shutter on or with the gain up in bright sunlight in mid-day.

This is the second male shooter with less experience hired after me at my station. BOth have been paid more money than I make.

Why is that?
File a complaint with the EEOC. You have a cut and dry example of being discriminated against because of gender.
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  #33  
Old 05-15-2008, 03:08 PM
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I thought we were talking about nats of a golf ball? did I miss something?
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  #34  
Old 05-25-2008, 12:33 PM
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Default Fair Pay?

A lot of times you are hog tied by how much the last person, who left the position, was paid. If photog A was paid, x dollars, then their replacement, regardless of gender, will be paid the same. That's not always fair. Welcome to life. I know I'm not paid what I should be and I know my counterparts are paid more than I.
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  #35  
Old 05-27-2008, 10:51 PM
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I thought we were talking about nats of a golf ball? did I miss something?
Sorry. I had a question. It started a bit of a conversation.
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  #36  
Old 06-14-2008, 04:44 PM
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Don't bash others to put yourself up... doesn't work. Let your work, attitude and work ethic build you up.

By the way, I don't have a problem with the golf ball audio... wasn't that the point of this thread?!?
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  #37  
Old 06-14-2008, 10:25 PM
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1) With the pay inequality issue;
How come women are on a lower pay rate? Australia fixed that problem years ago when the unions managed to have the government introduce award pay rates.

2) With the orginal ethics question;
I was always taught to think of what we are doing and the ramifications. In a hard news story (such as a fatal crash or shooting) then nothing can be altered. The vision has to be "what was there before your eyes" with nothing moved or touched to make it look better. It has to be a truthful and honest record of the scene.

Ditto the audio.


When it comes to a "feature story" (such as a 100 year old bloke does the marathon in gumboots), then things can be different. Objects and people in the shoot can be located to construct the desired shot. Audio can be treated likewise.

Its the hard news stuff that is more likley to hit the courts, especially now as police are tending to ask for or buy a copy of what was shot.

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