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Old 11-16-2008, 06:45 PM
TEM TEM is offline
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Default Turning the Format Page

All,

We're about to make a major conversion here at our station, and would like some feedback on what has worked and what hasn't at your station.

Some background... we switched from 3/4" (believe it or not!) to DVCPro in 1998, that was a obvious and much needed change. We went with all standard industry accepted broadcast gear at the time, and have benefited from that multiple times over.

The DVCPro acquisition though is aged now and in need of replacement. We're actually are on our original set of gear that we acquired back in 1998, so it has lived a good life.

Now comes the next evolution of gear to our little station.

With the "prosumer" and "professional" realms blurred dramatically, we're at a crossroads in which direction to take. As a long-time broadcaster I'm faced with going with the tried and true, vs. the "new media" approach.

I would like to know what you have done at your shop, what has worked, and what you would do over if had the opportunity.

We're looking to do the following:
--Go with Panasonic HPX-170 cameras (P2)
--Anton Bauer ELIPZ battery/light systems
--Sony URX-P2 Wireless Mic Systems (cube and bodypack tx) with a BEC or Bracket1 mount
--Porta-Brace camera cases/weather gear (does KATA make anything for this platform?)
--Vinten Vision 6 tripods/spreaders
--Canopus ADVC-55 converters for pool feeds via firewire with in-house built battery supplies

Anyone using similar setups? Feedback is appreciated.

As much as I would like to go all HPX500's (or better) for everything, reality is sinking in and looking to make--and pioneer--into this smaller platform as best as we can while maintaining the current level of service.

Thanks!
Thomas E Morales
Chief E.N.G. Videographer
KCOY & KKFX Television
Santa Maria, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, CA
thomasmorales@kcoy.com
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2008, 03:45 AM
Ben Longden Ben Longden is offline
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Sony XDCAM with Edius

Most news networks in Australia are using the XDCAM for lightning fast turnaround of files. They plug straight into a sat truck system via firewire - and any PC/laptop using firewire.

HD or SD in wide or standardscreen, all at a flip of a switch.

Editing is a cinch, with MPEG4 proxies immediately available for the jurno to preview and then supply a cutting script - all with the camera in the field if needs be. Outputs directly to MPEG2, so there is no need for re rendering for broadcast. Simply get the file into the server once its cut.

Petrol make neoprene gloves for the XDCAM range, so they are protected.

Aaaand, no. I dont use one. But its my wish lists Number one.

Ben
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:24 AM
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Default 16x9 SD Question

A question to those doing 16x9 SD, especially if you're using the Panasonic 170 or 200 cameras. How is that done? In looking in the manual for the 170, there is provision or mention of the ability of recording 16x9 in SD. There is a page however that addresses recording 480i video in letterbox mode or in "squeeze" mode. Does this mean the picture then gets "streched out" in the editing process? This is new ground for me that I need some clarification on.

Thanks
Thomas E Morales
Chief Videographer
KCOY & KKFX Television
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:45 AM
Drew Yaussy Drew Yaussy is offline
 
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we use the letterbox mode. I think this is how the video displays in the lcd
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Old 11-24-2008, 04:57 PM
Rocktog Rocktog is offline
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I would get a miranda box vs a canopus...we have had both and had lots of problems with the canopus. The miranda is smaller and is easier to install. We are shooting on P2 right now..and haven't had any troubles.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEM View Post
A question to those doing 16x9 SD, especially if you're using the Panasonic 170 or 200 cameras. How is that done? In looking in the manual for the 170, there is provision or mention of the ability of recording 16x9 in SD. There is a page however that addresses recording 480i video in letterbox mode or in "squeeze" mode. Does this mean the picture then gets "streched out" in the editing process? This is new ground for me that I need some clarification on.

Thanks
Thomas E Morales
Chief Videographer
KCOY & KKFX Television
Thomas, in SD the video is 720x480 regardless of being 16:9 or 4:3. If you shoot 16:9 SD, the camera will still shoot the same resolution, but it will squeeze the image horizontally. Upon playback, the camera has an 'anamorphic' flag in the video stream that tells the resulting display (or NLE) that the pixel aspect ratio should be 1.33:1 as opposed to the normal .9:1 ratio. The NLE should pick up on this or you may have to tell it by choosing an SD widescreen preset which will stretch the video out and give you a 16:9 representation. The squeezed horizontal resolution (thin faces) will now look normal. This is what the manual is referring to in squeeze mode. If doing letterbox, the camera will place the 16:9 video into a 4:3 frame with black bars top and bottom.

cm
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:47 PM
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Default 16x9 SD HPX170 Additional Info

Canonman,

Your info is spot on.

I got a 170 as a demo, played with it for a few days. I was able to shoot in SD "widescreen" format and everything edited as it should have been within Final Cut Pro.

It has been revealed by the company (without my input) that we'll be going with Grass Valley/Canopus Edius as our edit software, and Bitcentral Precis as our system, going 16x9 SD with the Panasonic 170 Cameras. I'm just getting into Edius, so far I have found it not too intuitive, but they're is learning curves to everything (an old Tape to Tape guy learning how to edit all over again, and again).

Any tips I should be aware of in going into such a system? I hear it is a "maintenance" hungry system on the back-end.

I'm really having a hard time also with the choice of the Notebook PC manufacturers eliminating PCMCIA slots in favor of the "ExpressCard" slots. This is effectively obsoleting P2 before we even get into it, as we can't drop the P2 cards right into the slot. In gearing up, we're effectively looking to "adapt" our workflow to make things work... again. I HATE adapting equipment, as it translates to me as one more lost piece of equipment that may jeopardize our coverage of a news event, becoming less competitive in the market. I know there are "solutions" to that (i.e. going with "broadcast" gear to begin with), but I guess that is the name of the game in this economic climate. I just have to police it more closely.

Thanks to all!
TM
Thomas E Morales
Chief E.N.G. Videographer
KCOY & KKFX Television
Santa Maria, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, CA
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:42 PM
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Thomas bookmark http://www.ediustips.com/ its a handy site.

Personally I think you are looking at the wrong camera.
If it was me making the media switch I’d want XDcam, Think cheap reliable media and easy storage/archiving, failing that an EX 3 would be my rock bottom starting point.

You will be lucky to get a year out of a 170 camera and P2 = Problem squared.
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Old 12-09-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEM View Post
Canonman,

Your info is spot on.

I got a 170 as a demo, played with it for a few days. I was able to shoot in SD "widescreen" format and everything edited as it should have been within Final Cut Pro.

It has been revealed by the company (without my input) that we'll be going with Grass Valley/Canopus Edius as our edit software, and Bitcentral Precis as our system, going 16x9 SD with the Panasonic 170 Cameras. I'm just getting into Edius, so far I have found it not too intuitive, but they're is learning curves to everything (an old Tape to Tape guy learning how to edit all over again, and again).

Any tips I should be aware of in going into such a system? I hear it is a "maintenance" hungry system on the back-end.

I'm really having a hard time also with the choice of the Notebook PC manufacturers eliminating PCMCIA slots in favor of the "ExpressCard" slots. This is effectively obsoleting P2 before we even get into it, as we can't drop the P2 cards right into the slot. In gearing up, we're effectively looking to "adapt" our workflow to make things work... again. I HATE adapting equipment, as it translates to me as one more lost piece of equipment that may jeopardize our coverage of a news event, becoming less competitive in the market. I know there are "solutions" to that (i.e. going with "broadcast" gear to begin with), but I guess that is the name of the game in this economic climate. I just have to police it more closely.

Thanks to all!
TM
Thomas E Morales
Chief E.N.G. Videographer
KCOY & KKFX Television
Santa Maria, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, CA
Does your station have camerafolks or mostly VJ's?
Curious to see how long a 170 would last?
I'm guessing they're cheap so easy to replace.

Any camerafolks out there using smaller cameras want to weigh in?
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:34 PM
TEM TEM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horonto View Post
Does your station have camerafolks or mostly VJ's?
Curious to see how long a 170 would last?
I'm guessing they're cheap so easy to replace.

Any camerafolks out there using smaller cameras want to weigh in?
We're in the process of converting to BPVJ's (Back Pack Video Journalists). I made the pitch to get traditional cameras for our remaining videographers, however the budgets just aren't there, so we ALL will be shooting with the handycams.

I too am very curious to see how the cameras hold up, especially in a shared environment. I'll keep you all posted, and what to look out for.
TM
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:03 PM
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don't expect to get ten years out of them... especially in a shared situation. it's a shame how some folks treat gear...
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javary View Post
don't expect to get ten years out of them... especially in a shared situation. it's a shame how some folks treat gear...
There's a correlation between capital cost and life expectancy. Cheaper cameras are more expendable. So the life expectancy will also shrink.

A metric worth watching is TCO - total cost of ownership. Which can also be converted to $ / day.

Cheers,
George

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Old 01-11-2009, 08:19 PM
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Default Tco

Its been assumed at this point that the Total Cost of Ownership, or what we call here the Return on Investment (ROI) by upper management will be at least seven years. Relistically I'm placing that in the first year of ownership under our scenario, we should budget for about 25% replacement cost.

Some think this is aggressive in budgeting, but these cameras are NOT built to be daily news cams, let alone daily shared news cameras. Time will tell, but I've been pretty on with my ROI estimates over the past 10 1/2 years.

With that being said, is that what will keep us going in this economy? I'm betting yes.

TM
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:41 PM
MrHasselblad MrHasselblad is offline
 
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I've seen Panasonic bend over backwards to solve just about any customer issue. Although the turn around time isn't quite as rapid as Sony.

Although one can't give a shotgun camera system suited for one particular organization without knowing a few more details; such as the results they may be looking for as well as the budget.
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