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Old 07-17-2017, 07:55 PM
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Default Panny PX380 or Sony X320

Taking the chip size out of the discussion, which camera would you prefer for local news? Who has experience with either of these cameras? I know the 320 is 1/2" chips and the 380 is 1/3" but there are other factors to consider. Our station is going to be getting new cameras soon. We get them about every 5 years now. A lot of us really love the 320's and Avid seems to work better with XDCAM over P2. However, we currently have the Panasonic 370's with the more expensive glass so upgrading to 380's essentially means just buying the bodies. What we are really interested in with the 380's is the internal Wifi and ability for editors back at the station to log into our cameras while we are shooting and begin downloading clips via FTP without us having to stop what we are doing to feed. With a 4G USB dongle, you are also supposed to be able to do live shots with no more than 1.5 sec delay. The Sony doesn't have that capability. Digital content, including Facebook LIVE, is a top priority at this station right now over on-air. Seems like the 380 has the tools we need to continue to evolve in offering our digital content. Yet, I think we'd get better images with the 320. Thoughts?
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:32 AM
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A station I work for bought the Panny PX380.
I hate them! I hate them! I hate them!
There is no one big real deal breaker, it does a lot of nice stuff and the picture is good but it is just a endless run of minor ****ty things that build up to make working with them an endless drag. For example: Try formatting the cards in camera. Its 14 to 18 button presses. Why? And at the end of all that formatting having to press "OK" is like a slap in the face. Its not ****ing OK!!!
The viewfinder never locks properly and is constantly sliding back and forth.
If you use both mini P2 slots in the camera it will jump cards for no reason. You start on slot 3. Suddenly half the shoot is on slot 4 but then for no reason its back on slot 3. Audio could be anywhere.
If you have the timecode switch knocked into the set position (and this happens all the time) none of the menus will come up.
Also the internal Wifi back to the office that was the selling point has never worked. Panny blame Avid, Avid blame Panny but bottom line its never worked except on the demo camera with another editing platform.
We just LiveU now. Better quality and more reliable.

I don't suppose they will stretch to the Sony X400?
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameragod View Post
Also the internal Wifi back to the office that was the selling point has never worked. Panny blame Avid, Avid blame Panny but bottom line its never worked except on the demo camera with another editing platform.
We just LiveU now. Better quality and more reliable.

I don't suppose they will stretch to the Sony X400?
First, that's the question I needed answered. We have AVID and if this feature isn't going to work then there is no reason to go with the 380.

As for upgrading to the 400, that won't happen. The station has decided to go with cheaper cameras every 5 years instead of high end cameras every 10 years because of the rapid changing technology and not wanting to get that far behind. The station also has a plan for fully converting to 4k in about 5 or 6 years so the idea is for these cameras to bridge that gap until its time to buy 4k.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:37 PM
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Have they looked at the Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 4.6? With the B4 mount on it you can use your existing glass and move up to 4K when the workflow is ready.
With the viewfinder and shoulder mount kit is totally an ENG camera. They brought it out about 3 months before it was ready but its solid now.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:35 PM
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This is my URSA Mini, I bought a month before the Pro came out... grrr...

This a day shoot on news. With both Panny and URSA mini cameras... and a Go Pro. Can you spot what was shot with the Mini?
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...=5505540041001

The biggest problem I face is getting the quality of the pictures low enough to match the Panny.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:49 PM
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First, that's the question I needed answered. We have AVID and if this feature isn't going to work then there is no reason to go with the 380.
As far as I can tell we gave up on trying to get it to work because by the time they arrived they had been made obsolete by all the new 3rd party streaming devices that were better quality and more reliable.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:01 AM
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When the switch to 4K is made the station is going to want a traditional shoulder mount eng camera with a slot for a wireless receiver and all the buttons where they are supposed to be. We have several experienced photogs BUT it's getting almost impossible to hire new photogs with experience which means young guys who aren't experts with the gear. In those scenarios, we just need a camera that has everything where it's supposed to be.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:04 AM
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Sorry for the second post but I couldn't edit my post on my iPhone. What we are hoping for is Something like the Sony Z450 but cheaper by the time the switch is made.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:53 PM
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I think the BM Mini Pro is a good camera, but not to be used in a news station setting. I think it's great for a freelancer who has the experience. SVP hit it on the head that the new hires have limited experience.

Stephen, can you split track one and two separate? I though you couldn't do that? Also I read line level in is fixed. You can't adjust the level at the camera.

As for 4k, don't hold your breath that news will go 4k. Editing 4k is still a pain without a really powerful computer system. Then don't forget the repacking of the spectrum. New transmitters and antennas will be required. Home tuners won't work anymore.

The #1 station in my market just went HD in the field last year. Been HD since the beginning of HD, but not in the field. Their cameras were liked 30 years old. The pictures looked really, really good.

I will add the local Fox Station uses the 320. Picture looks good.
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necktie Boy View Post

Stephen, can you split track one and two separate? I though you couldn't do that? Also I read line level in is fixed. You can't adjust the level at the camera.
I don't know were you heard that. There are two XLR inputs, one for CH1 and one for CH2 so they are separate with separate sound control. They can be individually set to Line, mic or mic +48v. There are no auto levels so you have to set sound manually... which I always do.

The Mini Pro set up for ENG is no different to operate than the Panny or Sony, if anything with the easy menu setup it is a bit simpler for a novice to find and do stuff and the option of doing everything on the touch screen is very novice friendly.

The only issue is the perceived low light performance. The lowest gain it goes is ISO 1600 that's like +9 gain in old beta days. That is easily ramped up in post. BM deciding to put all the noise reduction in the editing software instead of the camera. Not ideal for news but I think its a good thing that the camera op can't "gain" their way out of or into trouble.

The lack of a drop in mic slot is a pain but other than that put a B4 lens on it and everything is ideal for ENG

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Old 07-20-2017, 08:05 PM
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Hi Stephen,

I know you have two inputs, but early on, you couldn't split the tracks. I guess a firmware fixed that. The line level is on the Mini Pro. There are a few threads on that problem on the Blackmagic Board. It's set at a fix level.

Thanks for you reply.
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Old 07-20-2017, 10:55 PM
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I hadn't seen that one but I know there was an issue of it resetting the audio levels to 50% after a power off.
Like I said I think the Pro came out 3 months before it was ready but I believe it is now a viable ENG camera option for a Station at a very good price point.
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Old 07-21-2017, 12:27 AM
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Hey CG, nice pics of your rig. I've been watching that system along with others for the doc / on-the-go environment and am wondering how durable this system's shell is in the ENG space. Does it seem tough and able to take small knocks well? Also, does the controls' label printing look durable and not subject to easy wear from frequent rubbing? The newer lower cost systems' bodies just look flimsy compared to the past.

I know you take good care of your gear but we've all had the unexpected bump into something or from something. I've seen some nicely outfitted rigs being used to cover riots around the world and they just look so fragile for that environment and while watching I'm just waiting for one to be smashed by what the older systems could easily endure. Thanks

Quote:
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... And at the end of all that formatting having to press "OK" is like a slap in the face. Its not ****ing OK!!!...
Good one. Hahahaha

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Sorry for the second post but I couldn't edit my post on my iPhone. ...
If your phone has a 'full site version' override option in the browser settings, you should be able to see the full site with all the post editing tools. I have to do that on my phone and tablet.
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Old 07-21-2017, 06:06 AM
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That is one of the things I like about the URSA mini is the solid build quality. There are things like the rubber cup on the viewfinder can fall off if you put it in and out of a camera bag but other than that I've been very impressed.
I do wonder about getting it wet. There are heat sinks in the middle that seem to be open to the elements. Its been out in a light shower without a rain cover but I was very nervous.
But then I've used it in storm conditions with a rain cover and it was fine.
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necktie Boy View Post
As for 4k, don't hold your breath that news will go 4k. Editing 4k is still a pain without a really powerful computer system. Then don't forget the repacking of the spectrum. New transmitters and antennas will be required. Home tuners won't work anymore.
4k will not require new transmitters and antennas. It will require new encoders and new receivers, but the transmitter and antennas will be fine.
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