Starting out in HD?

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Austin Reeves

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I know this has been tossed around quite a bit here, but nothing exactly on track for what I'm looking for. If you guys know of a thread, let me know.

I'm going out on my own, moving from the infancy of my freelance business, more towards the fulltime, doing more news/magazine/corporate stuff. The only appropriate format I see going to is Hi-Def. Buying Like a 900 and the necessary toys? I think anything else would be on the low end of stuff in the very near future, don't you guys agree?

Being in news now, I've shot on BetaSP for the last 9 years. I love it. I don't want to leave, but I think that BetaSP is SLOWLY on the way out in favor of digital, and the DVCAM stuff, I think it could become the next SX. Good, but not the mainstream. :D Or you guys think if you were jumping in, there's enough of a market for the DVCAM or DVCPRO stuff?

Any feelings?

Liveshot
 
I

imported_blank

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Do remember - this is only one obnoxious opinion, slightly slanted towards my beloved beta format(s) :D

Pre-Scrip:
If you don't read the whole post at least read the bold type:


Before you buy, why don't you ask the producers themselves what they want and need?

"Starting out in HD", in my opinion you can't just buy the appropriate gear and jump into it. Unless the producers have worked with you on SD shoots countless times before, I doubt that they will choose a new guy (even a ten year beta sp news vet) just because he has the right HD tools.

For HIGH END corporate:
Well you got nine years in news using a real ENG camera, not bad at all. However I'm willing to bet that most corporate shoots "done in HD" will be very big indeed, from my understanding, most of these corporate HD shoots are replacement of film shoots - hear-say on my part only. As for the high end "SD" based corporate shoots, there is a huge number of established guys using Digi-Beta, if anything - (in my humble opinion) these are the folks that have a-foot-in-the-door to upgrade to HD gear.

Don't forget, a lot of the SP based network guys may fit into the "above" category as they are well known and may be soon moving themselves to HD and many are already renting/owning digi-beta and HD gear.

For MID END corporate:
I think this is the position were "YOU" can establish yourself. I'm not slamming you as this is the level I consider myself to be in. Much lower budgets then above yet they still expect broadcast quality gear and quality personnel. I suppose a quality 2/3 inch camera like the IKE-7 or Sony-570 or a Pana 2/3 inch DVCpro could be used. I just don't want to let-go of my beloved beta :D format. Lucky for me, there are plenty SP and SX :D units available. I suppose it matters most what your prod & post houses have available, what your producers or clients prefer. If you're a gear O&O for what else will this gear be accepted???? Oh and most important of all don't forget to think of the future - read the bold type below for the real reason to go with 4:2:2.

A thing to remember is that the world won't all of a sudden change from SD to HD. I know that in the United States the nets are preparing to make the jump, hell Seattle and some other markets have already made the leap ahead of the nets but unless you're an established net shooter - don't count on making the leap so soon to HD. Even when sports and mag shows make the leap, I doubt that all hard news will make the leap. A perfect example is Seattle - Net HD programming is re-broadcast in HD for a long long time, now local Mag Seattle shows are just starting to go HD but NEWS is STILL shot on good old SX and from what I'm hearing there is no big plan to swap SX for HDcams. We are talking QUALITY DRIVEN Seattle shops here!!!

Remember:
Your United States mandate to go digital does not mean to go HD. It only means that the analog channels have to be duplicated on digital and eventually the analog spectrum to be given back to the feds. As far as the government is concerned, the stations DO NOT need to shoot, edit, route in High Def - they are only required to output to air in digital. Anyway, I'm willing to bet that the feds won't demand the analog channels back until most Americans have digital tuners - not at the store shelves but at home. Perhaps in 2025? By 2006 they probably will demand a dupe signal on digital to push the change-over.

Here in Canada we have no mandate requiring for (over the air) broadcasters to EVEN GO DIGITAL. Although there is a mandate for certain specialty cable channels to be on digital. Two brand new local over the air channels recently in Vancouver. Both put on the ANALOG spectrum to remain on the ANALOG spectrum. They have brand new HIGH END DIGITAL SD decks. IMX looks sweet when broadcast over the analog air, so does SX. HD - all HD gear would be over-kill for a NTSC air channel / SD digital air channel.

I think the HD thing, both in the USA and Canada will be "market driven" who wants to be on top and who wants to be on bottom. As I see, many broadcasters (for the moment) seem to want to be on the bottom - remember NBC side letter 11 and now ABC wanting the same??? In my opinion Panasonic and Sony WILL NOT stop making SD gear for a very long time. The thing is when we all have HD sets at home - will we be willing to put up with watching CRAPPY SD GEAR PRODUCTIONS??? I think not!!! Will we be willing to put up with HIGH END SD GEAR productions??? I think so!!! THAT IS WHY I THINK IF GOING SD --GETTING A HIGH QUALITY 4:2:2 CAMERA!!!! Perhaps that is why rumour has it that Pana will stop DVCpro-25 and concentrate on DVCpro-50 (50 Mbps 4:2:2:) Perhaps that is why Sony is concentrating on IMX for SD (50 Mbps 4:2:2:)

Perhaps the manufactures know that with high-end sets folks can see a dif between 4:1:1 and 4:2:2, pre -broadcast process, especially on HD sets transmitting SD signals.

My feeling is that never again will there be such a mainstream format like "betaSP" Those times are gone forever. In the times of early SP days SP only had competition from M11 and SP clearly won. Later on Panasonic took a great chunk of the local news market away with DVCpro-25. Sony countered with SX and took a fair share mostly in the "BIG CITIES", CBS, CNN and two thirds of Canada, not to mention a whack of networks overseas. DVCpro-50 and DVcam-25 also have a piece of the pie.

What, now in SD we have
1)) Digi-beta
2)) IMX -beta
3)) SX -beta
4)) DVC-pro50
5)) DVCpro25
6)) DVcam-25
7)) DV25
8)) D-9
Guess what? SP beta still out numbers any of these formats. (broadcast)

In HD, it will be the same.
Sony already has three HDcam formats, Panasonic has D5-HD, DVCproHD etc.
One day a NEW better HD-disk system will come out - then the competition will retaliate with a better one.


I have a friend that frequents B-ROLL, he is a vet working for a shop in usa tornado alley area. They are an old beta SP shop waiting for things to shake out yet they replaced aging SP decks with you guessed it brand spanking new SX. Any bets that those decks will remain there for the next TEN years? Any bets that this isn't the only shop that has done this?

What about our good buddy LS, you know what 'editing" he advertises? SP/SX, yep SX. In fact John sent me a pic of him rolling for a client using no other then a SX camera. Big big world out there gents. I think we all know the high caliber cliental LS has established for himself.

We all love beta SP but you are right, eventually it will be out - and I think no other format will completely take over again ..... Sorry for the rant (again)
:p
 

HDTV

Active member
The WORST thing you can do when starting to freelance is buy equipment.

Don't even worry about that now.

There should be a place to rent gear in Orlando... start out by renting what you need until you build up a client base. When you are spending more each month on rental gear than it would cost you to own it...then buy.

A 900 + lens + necessary accessories is going to total over $250K...that's an awful lot of unneccesary overhead at this point in your career.

The HD business is a very small niche market. Out of every 100 available freelance shoots, maybe 1 will be HD.
 

Austin Reeves

Active member
Well I really thank you gents for giving me plenty of info to go on. I have been bouncing back and forth between like a D600, an SX camera, DVCPro-50, and of course the HD stuff. Until last night, I hadn't even heard of the DVCPro-50 vs. '-25. Guess I still have a lot to learn in the digital stuff.

From the feedback I'm recieving from you guys and from others, when/if I do buy the gear, It'll be either SX or DVCPro-50 (cold disgusted shiver).

I guess my biggest worry has been making sure I was shooting on a format the client could utilize without having to worry about dubbing and stuff. Have you guys using stuff other than SP found this a problem, or are you set up with a client base utilizing mainly your particular format?

Either way I think it's a minor speedbump on the highway. It's just when you go to make that kind of investment, you don't want any possible regrets or doubts hanging on your conscience.

Liveshot

i'm going to miss my SP.... *sniff* *sniff*
 

Douglas

Well-known member
Either way I think it's a minor speedbump on the highway.
Wrong. Choosing a format is the MAJOR speedbump on the highway in today's world. You better plan on renting gear until you find out what your clients want. That's really the bottom line. What YOU want is irrlelvant to a freelancer.

So, you're thinking of either SX or DCVPRO-50? I can tell you, that as an established freelancer, working about 200 days per year, I've never had a single call for either of those formats. If I had SX or DVCPRO-50 I'd never work at all. 99% of the time clients will have no interest at all in transfering between formats. You either have the gear, or the client goes elsewhere.

Let me put this as nicely, and as constructively as I can -- you need to be very careful about embarking on a freelance career. You might be a fantastic shooter, but your comments make me wonder if you are ready to strike out on your own. Please don't take that the wrong way. I mean it just to open your eyes a bit.

Doug
 

HDTV

Active member
I have to agree with Douglas.

Did you even read my first response?

There is no way you should be considering buying equipment at this point in your career.

Freelance is (at best) 20% photography skill & 80% business skill.

You might want to consider checking out a few business courses at a local community college before you embark on your freelance career.

I'm not dissin' you...I wish you all the best. But I've done this for 10 years, and from your original post & response, I don't get the feeling that you are fully aware of what you're getting yourself into.

I've seen too many talented photographers fail as freelancers because they bought gear ahead of demand.

Question: How much capital do you need to start your business?

Can you answer this?
 

quicklad

Well-known member
I'll also agree with Douglas and HDTV.

I have been freelancing only for the last 13 years (in lighting as well as shooting) and I have never had a call for SX or DVC Pro 50 (or 25 for that matter).

I have a dockable camera that I can mate with an SP deck or a DVCam deck. All the HD shoots I've done the client has rented the camera, but I know where to rent them if I need to.

Find some freelancers in your area and talk with them about your market. Get a line on some nicely maintained camera packages that you can rent and start building up your business. Don't hang the albatross of a large note around your neck by buying before you have a market.

Good luck and welcome to the world of freelancing. It is not always an easy step - but it's well worth it for a number of reasons - so stick it out.

Eric
 
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