Oconnor and Vinten customer service

valvashon

Member
I realize that there are always problems when you buy and consolidate brands- which is why I oppose most consolidations; that and lack of competition hurts consumer choice- but Vitec has really fallen down with this one.

I usually drive a full-size satellite truck but do maintenance work on the side and lots of the photographer stuff falls to me as the "real" engineers are busy trying to make the PSIP and Neilsen boxes work or something like that. I'm an experienced tech with 25+years in TV and I haven't run into customer service as bad as this- even Philips support for their abortive DTV equipment was better.

The following narrative has had some corners shaved off of it. When you start looking for parts numbers you don't always realize that you should take notes for that forum post you will be making three months later.

Way back in February I believe I started trying to track down parts for an Oconnor tripod and head. Repeated e-mails went unanswered and phone calls went to numbers that just rang and rang or voice jail that eventually cut me off. Finally I got a response from somebody who was filling in for my rep; they got me a parts list and by this time I was also trying to track down parts for a SOOM spreader. Same organization; different set of unanswered e-mails and lost phone calls. Eventually talked to my rep on what seemed like a tin-can-speaker-phone-mobile-phone serviced by a cell site in North Korea. I can't imagine taking a customer call on that line- they must not know what it sounds like on this end; I was on my desk phone, BTW.

Of course my order was wrong as confirmed by the invoices that eventually got e-mailed my way; a somewhat less rough phone call followed to correct the order and to give them my corporate card for what was now two orders (?) one for the Oconnor parts (which I told them to ship when the back ordered part came in, which would be about 30 days) and the order for the SOOM spreader parts, which were all in stock in NYC and would ship now.

Here we are a month later and no credit card charges have been made for either order; I've stopped going into the mail room in the morning to see if my stuff is here and meanwhile another another spreader got broken and has landed in the shop. One of the other guys took that on and I told him "good luck shaking some parts from the Vitec tree".

All told my order for parts was just over $300- I know to a big corporation that has just gotten bigger that doesn't seem like much, but still, it's $300!

Yes, I will call them next week to get the runaround from them as it's been a month since I gave them my CC number. I'm not expecting much at this point except apologies; if I ever see a box of parts I'll be surprised.

Face it people, your stuff isn't invincible- when it gets broken we need to order parts for it. Ignore my $300 order and I guarantee you I'll try to stop our Chief Photographer from placing that $3000 order with you, and to look around for a company with reasonable after market support. Trouble is, most tripods seem to come from a Vitec brand now. Thanks, capitalism!

Val
 
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Lensmith

Member
Just my thoughts...while admitting this is your first post and I don't want to come across as negative.

To me, from the perspective of someone who has been freelance for some time, the good news is they didn't charge the credit card. You can safely cancel the transaction.

Secondly, again written with the most polite intentions, ask yourself are you being penny wise and pound foolish?

You have now spent over a month with a broken tripod. A month is a long time to go without a reliable tripod.

I think you should consider buying either a new tripod or a used tripod in good condition.

Yes, probably more money than you might have wanted to spend considering your earlier efforts but...trying to save pennies is counterproductive when clients judge you be the job you are doing now. They won't want to hear excuses about efforts to fix equipment. There are plenty of others out there, even with sat trucks, who maintain their gear in good working condition.

Just me "thinking" as I too have had to make those tough decisions about spending money I didn't really want to...but discovered later I was so glad I did instead of "saving my way to unemployment". ;)
 

valvashon

Member
Not sure Lensmith read my original post very closely. I'd quote myself directly but the original post seems to have disappeared. I spoke of having multiple tripods to repair, a corporate credit card and other maintenance technicians in the building. I'm not a freelancer, I work in the maintenance shop in an affiliate in a top 15 market. Let's parse:

Just my thoughts...while admitting this is your first post and I don't want to come across as negative.

To me, from the perspective of someone who has been freelance for some time, the good news is they didn't charge the credit card. You can safely cancel the transaction.
I want Vitec to run my credit card. I want the parts I have ordered!

Secondly, again written with the most polite intentions, ask yourself are you being penny wise and pound foolish?

You have now spent over a month with a broken tripod. A month is a long time to go without a reliable tripod.

I think you should consider buying either a new tripod or a used tripod in good condition.
These are decisions that would be made at the corporate level, or at least at the level of the Chief Photographer I spoke of. I have spent my entire life without a reliable tripod. I'm a maintenance technician and satellite truck operator. I fix the tripods, not use them. Any final decisions on equipment purchases are made elsewhere.

Yes, probably more money than you might have wanted to spend considering your earlier efforts but...trying to save pennies is counterproductive when clients judge you be the job you are doing now. They won't want to hear excuses about efforts to fix equipment. There are plenty of others out there, even with sat trucks, who maintain their gear in good working condition.

Just me "thinking" as I too have had to make those tough decisions about spending money I didn't really want to...but discovered later I was so glad I did instead of "saving my way to unemployment". ;)
I want to fix these tripods. They are fixable and Vitec has teased me by saying the parts are available. Saving the company money by repairing equipment keeps me employed. Spending company money on new equipment and just tossing gear that is slightly broken would be the way to unemployment.

What I was hoping to get out of this thread is what experiences others have had lately with Oconnor/Satchler/Vinten. Maybe I'm using the wrong approach with them or something. Unless my original post re-appears I probably won't get much response.

Val
 
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Lensmith

Member
Strange...about what happened to your post. Not sure why that occurred.

I read your post just fine.

My point involved the business decision you were making.

I'm freelance. I run a business. You are in a position to make a business decision.

To focus on what, so far, has not resulted in having needed working equipment...has left you right where you were a month ago.

I tried to point out the positive about not having the credit card run yet instead of having them run it, then dealing with getting that issue addressed while still not having working gear.

You choose to continue to chase a repair. The end result, again, leaving you right where you were four weeks ago. That seems like a poor decision to me. You are leaving the business in a poor position to accomplish what that business is truly about. Producing a professional visual product.

If it was me that had to be the one using that equipment, producing the video without working gear, I'd be in your office wondering how long you are going to leave me hanging? Great, you want to fix the equipment and so far your best efforts have failed completely. Sure, blame the companies you're trying to deal with but also acknowledge that your chosen course of action also has a negative effect on the service you provide your paying clients. THEY are most important of all. You don't stay in business if you don't have the proper working equipment to get the job done in a competitive marketplace.

You want some magic phone number and name to get these parts? And then you're going to wait how much more time for the parts to be delivered and repairs made? Additional time with non-working gear? Additional time to lose clients who actually pay the bills to keep the business running?

All equipment, after time, needs to be replaced. Nothing can be constantly repaired forever. Maybe you should consider talking to those in charge and explaining the facts that you can't get these tripods repaired.

I know plenty of middle managers who lose sight of what the real product is of any business. They end up thinking the product is money and base all their decisions around that. Many times because they are not the ones who have to live with a penny-pinching decision process which ignores the true priorities of the company. And the business suffers because of that misguided view.

At a certain point you need to adjust your priorities.

At present...the "penny wise and pound foolish" analogy fits.

You need to do whatever you can to get working equipment available to those who actually produce the product and stop wasting time on what is clearly a losing course of action on your part.

You need working gear now. Any way you can. You're "saving" the company into failure if you keep this up.

But...that's just my perspective from someone who not only runs a business...but also makes the product the business needs to survive.

Good luck.
 

Douglas

Well-known member
I've had nothing but excellent customer service over the years from O'Connor, however I have not needed any repairs since Vitec took over. I would not expect to have anything less than excellent service today, I'm just saying I haven't had any recent experience.
 
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Tv Shooter

Well-known member
Never had a problem with Sachtler. They expedited my tripod and head once, doing a one day turnaround...they got it on Tuesday morning, they had it back to me on Wednesday morning. No extra charge for the turnaround.
 

Necktie Boy

Well-known member
Same deal as Doug. Great service at their old place. I have joked about about their new place since it's a little door. They service should be the same.
 

zac love

Well-known member
I have sent two Vinten tripods & one Sachtler head in for repair. All was done under the original warranty & we just paid for shipping to the service shop.

All my experiences have gone great. "Worst" thing that happened is one of the Vinten legs got signed for & then sent to the wrong department. When I called for an update they said they hadn't received them. I told them it had been delievered & signed for by X & the legs were in the shop by the end of the day.

I did find that they don't give updates. If something is under warranty they'll get it, fix it & send it back to you. If you want to know the progress, it is up to you to poke them & then they'll get back to you.
 

Tv Shooter

Well-known member
Damn this thread. After reading it, I was on a shoot and the 2nd stage leg wouldn't open. The stop inside the leg is jammed, how I have no idea. It's a screw and you have to take the whole thing apart apparently.

Called Sachtler and it was at least 10 days to get it back. Sent it to SA&J in Chicago.
This thread jinxed me. I'm blaming Avid.
 

valvashon

Member
It just keeps getting better and better. Since my original rant, the parts I have needed for various tripods have come dribbling in. Everything I need doesn't seem to show up in the same box at once. First some top caps for a Satchler spreader, then 3 or 4 weeks later the short aluminum tubes (because apparently an aluminum tube is really hard to make), etc. They eventually shipped the O'connor parts I needed (minus the little thing that sticks on the knob and says "Tilt Lock") but they put the $127 piece of plastic called the "Leg Lock Lower" on backorder until September! You read that correctly- I am having to wait between 7 and 8 months for a $127 piece of injection molded plastic that would easily fit in your watch pocket of your jeans. It's sitting upright here in the shop with a note on it that says "Parts will be here in September". Nobody believes that- it's a real conversation starter.

The O'connor parts that did show up in May were paid for with a corporate AMEX card, and I personally submitted the AMEX approval. To add a final insult, Vitec also invoiced our company for this same order on Wednesday! I'm very glad I bothered to download the invoice from the invoice processing system before I approved the payment. I'm guessing that the double dipping wasn't intentional, but that just shows the level of disorganization that has been brought about by the merger of these companies. I hope for their sake they get it straightened out, but until then my original advice stands: If you are making a new purchase, stay away from anything having to do with the Vitec Group.

Val
 

valvashon

Member
It just keeps getting better and better. Since my original rant, the parts I have needed for various tripods have come dribbling in. Everything I need doesn't seem to show up in the same box at once. First some top caps for a Satchler spreader, then 3 or 4 weeks later the short aluminum tubes (because apparently an aluminum tube is really hard to make), etc. They eventually shipped the O'connor parts I needed (minus the little thing that sticks on the knob and says "Tilt Lock") but they put the $127 piece of plastic called the "Leg Lock Lower" on backorder until September! You read that correctly- I am having to wait between 7 and 8 months for a $127 piece of injection molded plastic that would easily fit in your watch pocket of your jeans. It's sitting upright here in the shop with a note on it that says "Parts will be here in September". Nobody believes that- it's a real conversation starter.

The O'connor parts that did show up in May were paid for with a corporate AMEX card, and I personally submitted the AMEX approval. To add a final insult, Vitec also invoiced our company for this same order on Wednesday! I'm very glad I bothered to download the invoice from the invoice processing system before I approved the payment. I'm guessing that the double dipping wasn't intentional, but that just shows the level of disorganization that has been brought about by the merger of these companies. I hope for their sake they get it straightened out, but until then my original advice stands: If you are making a new purchase, stay away from anything having to do with the Vitec Group.

Val
September! That would have been sweet. Mid October I sent an e-mail inquiry about the O'Connor part in question and got a response that they were going to the injection molder or wherever the next day and that I would have my $127 piece of plastic by the end of October. Here it is November 6th and still no parts. Recall that this was a process I started back in March.

If aftermarket support is important to you, run don't walk from the Vitec group.

Val
 

zac love

Well-known member
How old are the models you're trying to fix? If they're still being sold today, then this is crazy. But if it was something that was discontinued a decade ago I'm not surprised that parts are hard to come by.

It is great that these pieces of equipment can last years & it would be great if we could forever get parts to them, but I wouldn't fault a company for not making parts for products they're not selling anymore. Except if they're making promises that they're not following through on, then it is something to complain about.

Have you tried contacting the main Vitech offices in the UK?

---

This also makes me excited about 3D printers. As they keep getting better & cheaper it'll be possible for nearly any small shop to make their own replacement parts, especially if they're small plastic parts. Hell, if you have two models of the model you're trying to fix, you could see if there are any 3D printing / fabricating shops in your area. They could probably scan the part you need & make 2 or 3 for less than $100.
 

Tv Shooter

Well-known member
I have to say my last go round with Sachtler was less than pleasant. I overnighted my tripod to them. S&J could not fix it, as there was an issue with the part or tool or something….anwya off to Sachtler. Overnight FedEx.

A week later someone looked at it, and of course, a part was needed that wasn't available. Two weeks later, part comes in, and since I am flying to Oklahoma, I ask them to overnight it, priority delivery by 10:30am, and email the tracking info. By 1pm, no tripod, and no email, no tracking number and most of all no one answering the damn phone at Sachtler. So finally get the guy I had talked to who calls me back and says "oh we shipped it regular overnight….sorry".
Well since I had a shoot beginning right then, no tripod and we were leaving town….needless to say I was pissed.

They just don't have their sh!t together anymore. And damned if I just had to send my Anton Bauer power supply back to AB/Vitec to fix.

Yea….Vitec is really losing their way.
 

cameragod

Well-known member
Local broadcasting school called me as their Miller tripod didn't work anymore. Turns out they had a bit lost off the tripod by a student who just put it back without mentioning it (whole other rant) So I called Miller for them and not only were Miller very helpful on the phone but they arranged a replacement part free of charge from of a damaged tripod they had.

Hard not to love service like that.
 

zac love

Well-known member
In my opinion there are eight major professional video tripod companies in the world:

Cartoni
Gitzo
Libec
Manfrotto
Miller
O'Connor
Sachtler
Vinten

Vitec owns five of those: Gitzo; Manfrotto; O'Connor; Sachtler; Vinten.

Good customer service that cameragod mentioned could help Miller (& Cartoni & Libec too) to be set them apart from the Vitec brands.

That all being said, I've had good experience with warranty claims for Vinten & Sachtler. Though nothing has beaten the customer service I've gotten from Tiffen brands (I love how easy it is to get Lowel parts).

I even had a used Davis & Sanford (owned by Tiffen, which I consider to be a nice affordable prosumer tripod for the price) head refurbished for free & considering I bought the tripod used off eBay, I wasn't expecting to get that type of service.
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
Yea….Vitec is really losing their way.
Unfortunately, this is what happens a lot of times when smaller companies become larger ones(and become conglomerates in this case).

Fortunately, I haven't had a nightmare like any of these, but I did run into some frustration a few months ago. I needed to have a custom knob made for my Vinten heads so that I could use them on a very low hi-hat. The specs for the tie-down stud aren't in the repair manual so I contacted Vinten. Their own engineers couldn't even give me the right/full specs. The machine shop that was building the piece for me FINALLY was able to figure it out after a few weeks and a lot of work. Vinten uses a very screwy(pun intended) thread pitch/angle that almost no one else on the planet does, for the tie-down stud.

But I will say, I do love Vinten's heads. I have four of them.
 

zac love

Well-known member
Yeah, the Vinten bolt is unique. If you just take a quick look at it looks like a standard Metric M10 1.5P (10mm & 1.5 Pitch / Coarse). But here is the tricky piece (that is easy to miss), if you look at it very closely, with a keen eye, you'll see that it has a dual start.

Instead of just one thread going all the way down, there are two (like a candy cane).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread#Lead.2C_pitch.2C_and_starts

I ran into this when I was trying to get a tie down nob for a hi hat from Kessler. It took a number of e-mails back & forth between Kessler & Vinten until I got a PDF from Vinten & they pointed out that it was a dual start.

Kessler was able to make a custom tie down knob, but they had to order some new pieces to make it.

I'm a little surprised that whenever someone contacts Vinten about this, that they just don't come straight out & say that it is a dual start. That one little bit should be like a light bulb to any machine shop & they'd know what to do from there (even if it is a PITA to get a rare / unique tap & die).
 

Run&Gun

Well-known member
Yeah, the Vinten bolt is unique. If you just take a quick look at it looks like a standard Metric M10 1.5P (10mm & 1.5 Pitch / Coarse). But here is the tricky piece (that is easy to miss), if you look at it very closely, with a keen eye, you'll see that it has a dual start.

Instead of just one thread going all the way down, there are two (like a candy cane).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread#Lead.2C_pitch.2C_and_starts

I ran into this when I was trying to get a tie down nob for a hi hat from Kessler. It took a number of e-mails back & forth between Kessler & Vinten until I got a PDF from Vinten & they pointed out that it was a dual start.

Kessler was able to make a custom tie down knob, but they had to order some new pieces to make it.

I'm a little surprised that whenever someone contacts Vinten about this, that they just don't come straight out & say that it is a dual start. That one little bit should be like a light bulb to any machine shop & they'd know what to do from there (even if it is a PITA to get a rare / unique tap & die).
They did, in fact, have to order special pieces to make my tie down knobs.
 

valvashon

Member
How old are the models you're trying to fix? If they're still being sold today, then this is crazy. But if it was something that was discontinued a decade ago I'm not surprised that parts are hard to come by.

It is great that these pieces of equipment can last years & it would be great if we could forever get parts to them, but I wouldn't fault a company for not making parts for products they're not selling anymore. Except if they're making promises that they're not following through on, then it is something to complain about.

Have you tried contacting the main Vitech offices in the UK?

---

This also makes me excited about 3D printers. As they keep getting better & cheaper it'll be possible for nearly any small shop to make their own replacement parts, especially if they're small plastic parts. Hell, if you have two models of the model you're trying to fix, you could see if there are any 3D printing / fabricating shops in your area. They could probably scan the part you need & make 2 or 3 for less than $100.
It's older- about 10-12 years old. I think it is a 1030 head and a 25L tripod. If they had said no, we haven't supported those in years I would understand and you wouldn't have heard from me here. But they took my order and promised me (now multiple) delivery dates. Either deliver the parts or don't. But stringing me along for the better part of a year is very poor customer service.

Val
 
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