Methods of capturing sound @ fire scenes

[BryantVW]

I'm 6 months in to my professional news photography career and I can already think of two cases where I would have liked to make packs. Unfortunately, most of these fires happen at night and are VO SOTs for the morning producers.

In the case that some day I DO get to pack a fire story, I intend to FILL it with nats. Beeping, water hoses clinking, chainsaws cutting... you name it.

But.... how can I cleanly capture this audio when all my nat mic picks up is the god awful roar of the 5-8 fire truck generators all around me? I don't know what it is, if it's the power genny, or the water pumps, or just the engines idling... but all that WHIRRRRRRRRR cancels out ANY chances I had of getting good nat pops.

So, question #1 - HOW do i get past this? Better mics? Trying to finnagle my way away from the fire trucks? What is the BEST way to capture nat sound at a fire?

And question #2 - What is the best way to capture scanner chatter?

Some time when I'm out at a SWAT standoff or something I would like to inject scanner nats. We don't have scanners in our newscars, or even handheld scanners. The only scanner we have is one at our assignment desk. And I have a scanner app on my personal phone.

Just trying to get ideas from those who are in bigger markets. Thanks guys!

 

[svp]

Well, I'll offer one thread of advice for capturing sound to use in these nat pkgs. If you have an iPhone, purchase the scanner911 app. If your local fire dept. is on the list, you can record the scanner traffic using the app. Just record it while you're on scene and then once you're done shooting, run a 3/8 mini to XLR adapter plug into one of the mic inputs in your camera. Hit record then play the scanner recording so you record the audio in the camera. Great scanner traffic to use for nat sound.

Another option would be to buy a $99 audio recorder at Wal-Mart or CVS (nearly all record to SD cards or internal hard drives making them easy to use to put in your editor) that has a 3/8 mini audio mic input and run an adapter from your scanners ext. speaker output to the recorder.

 

[cyndygreen1]

You can get the chainsaws...and maybe the beeping if you get close enough. That is the trick - get so close your mike is kissing the source. Otherwise the nats you hear is the nats of the story.

 

[virtualchuck]

I've been shooting fires for years, and I've never really found the need to go out of the way to get NAT sound, it's usually all around you. Depending on your camera, swap the shotgun, put something better on there, and make sure you've got the proper cover for it depending on the weather.

As for the scanner chatter, if you are close enough to the truck, you should be able to pick it up on their loudspeakers. I've always been of the understanding that official scanner traffic is off limits for rebroadcast. I would check with some local PIO's, ham radio guys, or your local SBE for clarification, as that may vary by state.

Chuck

 

[svp]

As for the scanner chatter, if you are close enough to the truck, you should be able to pick it up on their loudspeakers. I've always been of the understanding that official scanner traffic is off limits for rebroadcast. I would check with some local PIO's, ham radio guys, or your local SBE for clarification, as that may vary by state.

Chuck

You may be right but there sure have been many many past NPPA BoF winning stories that had scanner traffic in them.

 

[FOXLight]

If it is a really good fire and lots of chatter from crews inside to the chief... I will ask to put my wireless lav on the pio's radio. Or just ask to hang on to their portable for a few minutes to get nats. You would be surprised how accomodating they will be.

 

[f11vid]

First,use a real shotgun mic with a shock mount rather than the built-in camera mic. Next, stick a high-pass filter on to the short audio cable going to the camera (this filters out low-end frequencies,like generator noise). Then, turn of the agc (automatic gain control) on the camcorder and run manual audio and get close to your subject. Be safe. It's easy to get wrapped up in the sound and miss the danger of the situation.

 

[mi3ke]

Question #2: grey area. If you put a mic NEXT to a speaker, you could argue that it is "nat" sound of scene. However, if you plug a speaker line out into your camera then you are recording scanner traffic off air and may be in violation of FCC laws or State laws. Something to think about.

Cheers, Mi3ke
KOB-TV

 

[Brock Samson]

I've always been of the understanding that official scanner traffic is off limits for rebroadcast.
Chuck

Depending on where you live, of course. Like it's been said, a lot of award winning stories have scanner nats in them, what I wonder is if the fire or police departments would have a leg to stand on, considering that it would be stuff you can hear plainly just standing there on the sidewalk. This question interests me...

 

[virtualchuck]

Depending on where you live, of course. Like it's been said, a lot of award winning stories have scanner nats in them, what I wonder is if the fire or police departments would have a leg to stand on, considering that it would be stuff you can hear plainly just standing there on the sidewalk. This question interests me...

I too think I am going to research this as well. I recall that there was an incident here in Chicago several years ago in which someone (I forget if it was a stringer or an amateur radio guy) recorded a firefighter making racist comments after a mic on his truck was left open. The actual audio was never aired, only a an edited transcript, as I had heard that the city threatened legal action against any station that aired the "unauthorized recording"

 

[Ben Longden]

The recording of scanner traffic is a debatable one and the only person who can give permission is the fire chief - in my case, that would be the State Fire Commissioner... so thats in the too hard basket.

However, if my on camera mic picks up scanner traffic over the fire trucks speakers, then thats fair game for use.

But with nat sound at a fire, its generally the generator noise for the lights, the idling of the fire truck engines and the occasional shout... so its just 'noise' really.

What I do though when shooting airshows (hobby) is to take a portable scanner with me, and have the output of that go straight into the camera via a 3.5mm to three pin XLR adaptor I made up. The scanner just sits behind the battery in the Portabrace 'glove' so its truly portable.

 

[Imachief]

I hate to bring this up again but: specifically recording scanner traffic to be rebroadcast in a news story COULD get you in big trouble.
I refer to FCC rules, Section 73.1207, and Section 705 of the Communications Act. For those of you who care; there are articles in the Spring 1995 issue of "Communications Lawyer" and the March 1998 issue of "News Photographer". Yes, you can record whatever you hear in the natural course of shooting a story, but transcribing it for publication, or rebroadcasting it WITHOUT consent of the agency originating the traffic is considered "unauthorized".
Personally, I like the idea of getting as close as I can to the action and taking the shotgun mic OFF the camera. I use my body as a shgield to decrease the "roar" as much as possible.
Sorry to rain of everyone's parade. Good luck & be safe!

 

[Ben Longden]

With the fire brigades, Police and Ambos... you can expect to get into trouble unless the audio was recorded as natural sound - such as from their own loudspeaker and you just happened to be nearby....

With the airshows, its fair game to use a scanner directly into the camera.

 

[adam]

The "auto" setting (as was said before) will destroy your efforts so ride your audio. Essentially, you have to put our camera's back side to the fire trucks engine because if it's between you and your subject you're SOL. Get up close to the firefighters once the fire is under control. Just walking those guys make a ton of noise.
I used to clip a handheld scanner onto my camera and do the mini-xlr thing into my camera. That way I could monitor my shotgun (ch.1) and the scanner (ch.2). Here is the key. If I thought I was going to use the nats I would clear it with the battalion chief. I would tell him that I wanted to use a couple of snippets and promise not to use anything embarrassing. I had that conversation about 100 times and no one ever said no.
Your best bet, stick a wireless mic on a bystander who is going to hang out for a while. Start there and then get the rest once things are more calm and you can get close. The hoses, hydrants, ringing air alarms and chainsaws will be going long after the fire is done. Your best nats will always be onlooker reaction.

 

[AlexLucas]

There are a couple of things-
1. Throw the audio recorder in the truck. Lock the truck. Let it roll. If you can sync it later, do that. If not, pepper it. Throw it on the timeline, look for the spikes, and cut out the rest. You'll know when the big action is going down.
I know a lot of people talking about the legality of things, I guess that's true, but I've NEVER heard of a photog EVER getting in trouble over this kind of stuff.

2. Use the bystanders. Mic 'em. And then just isolate them and let it roll. In about three minutes, they'll forget they have a mic, and go back to talking about the fire. Be at a distance, and they'll forget all about you. Then you get the good stuff. Compose the foreground and background.

3. Don't forget to ask good questions about the firefighters. They have emotions. Don't just ask what happened. Ask very, very subjective questions. What's it like in a fully engulfed fire? When you're walking on a roof that might collapse, what do you do?

4. You must make all attempts at all times to find anyone that was almost burned up. It comes after the flames. You get them before the fire marshall. You don't talk about property loss unless they let you in a burned out apartment, you talk about the fifteen seconds of getting out of a major fire. You approach the victims in a VERY VERY specific way. You never say "*Gulp* Uh, Mr. Victim, Sir?" you stick out your hand to shake it and say, "We're glad you're alive. Good job."
That'll get the ball rolling.
Keep refocusing on their thoughts of loved ones and protecting their families or themselves. Nobody cares about the property, and if you focus on "I'm from Channel 72," or anything like that, embarrassment will overpower their urge to tell their story.
Tell that story... even if it's just one huuuuge soundbite.

You don't need to put big spinning rims on any package to make it good. You don't need burning nat pops. You just need to walk every inch of that apartment fire. You need to hoof the whole thing, inch by every inch, talk to EVERY SINGLE LAST PERSON THERE, until you find 'it.'
You just need to make people lean in to the television at home... or stop cooking dinner and walk into the living room.

 

[Corey]

Very good post, Alex! Great info there.

As other posters said, sounds like you need a better mic. If you're going to leave a microphone mounted on the camera, make it a shotgun with a directional pickup pattern. That will help isolate the sound a bit and hopefully cut out SOME of the loud "whirring" around you. If you want specific nats of something, get your mic closer to it. You'll have to make a conscious effort to collect those sounds on scene. As Chuck says above, the natural sound is all around you and no matter what mic you have, you will pick it up. But getting a better mic and making an extra effort to isolate and capture the sounds you want will make it stand out more when editing.

It's easy to just show up to a fire, point your camera in different directions, and come back to the station with a standard VO... but with some extra effort (including the tips from Alex) you may end up finding a story in the crowd that warrants an upgrade from a VO to a PKG. You won't know until you look for it.

 

[BryantVW]

Wow... I had no idea this thread would cause so much discussion. I'm glad though... I feel like we cleared up a few things as to the legality of scanner chatter. I'm with AlexLucas though... Okay, so it's illegal... I have seen numerous packs where scanner chatter is used and nothing has happened. If they don't want us to air it, why are they broadcasting over public airwaves where any average Joe can listen in if they have a scanner??

Thanks to you ALL for the clever suggestions on how to capture sound. I'll look back on this thread whenever I need to refresh. I think the problem is, though... I work for a medium size market. Owned by Nexstar. We don't have extra unidirectional shotgun mics, high pass filters, and handheld scanners lying around. All we have is our stick and lav mics and our onboard mics. I understand this is no excuse, however it does help to know that once I get more supplies, things will come easier.

Just another reason to look forward to moving up in the news world!

 

[adam]

Just remember, crappy gear or not, house fires are about people and the loss and fear they went through. The actual fire affects 1 to 80 people usually, but a story about a person reacting to the worst day of their life is applicable to everyone.

When you're getting that sound, if it's noisy and bleeding into you audio just try to put the source of the noise in the background of the interview frame. That's true for any story. Highway noise, for instance, isn't as troublesome if you can see the highway right over the interview's shoulder.

 

[f11vid]

If all else fails, saunter back to engineering, kowtow appropriately, and politely ask if they have any ME-80's or 416's gathering dust. You'd be surprised what gems lay forgotten deep in the bowels of a TV station.

 

[Ben Longden]

Just remember, crappy gear or not, house fires are about people and the loss and fear they went through. The actual fire affects 1 to 80 people usually, but a story about a person reacting to the worst day of their life is applicable to everyone.

When you're getting that sound, if it's noisy and bleeding into you audio just try to put the source of the noise in the background of the interview frame. That's true for any story. Highway noise, for instance, isn't as troublesome if you can see the highway right over the interview's shoulder.

Thanks for the tip..