What the hell is wrong with still photogs???

[<Shooter>]

Got questioned by an idiot from a sorta local paper who wanted to know if I "always step in front of other photographers" because I "ruined three of his pictures." This was a military send off, like 400 soldiers, each one had their moment on stage, plus prob twice as many family members at least, ya know, the kind of thing that has an infinite number of shots. First of all, this thing was kinda like a big media free for all anyway...I was the only one with balls to go on stage...I do this frequently, my job is tell a story, and 15 seconds of me shooting wont kill anyone...I am normally courteous (sp) to folks, esp those are in my line of work roughly. I know a still photogs job is to get that one shot that tells the story, but in my opinion, if you cant get at least two or three at a thing like this, then you suck...it is a small town paper too. I always get the bit of nervousness, but, did not back down, I pointed out to him the hundreds of soldiers, how I didnt mean to, etc, then wished him a good day after he promised to "ruin shots of mine." You have to be agressive when getting the story, not after the fact by being an a**hole. I know hes an idiot, I prob should have been a bit more "accomodating" to the prob 30 diff still shooters, from family to dailies, but jesus, I have a job to do too. It took them almost an hour to go through all of them and I was up there for a super small portion of that. Cant wait to see this idiot out on a story again...

[<2 eyes>]

did you step infront of him? Yes you both have jobs to do, but neither of you has to be rude about it. When I am in a scrum of photographers and wish to move I will look up and look around (even though I already know exactly where I intend to go). This alerts others that I will be moving. If I am going to cross someone's line of sight I make eye contact so they know I am not shooting and will be moving.

I really have a problem with those photographers, still and tv, that just walk in front of others with out consideration of others also doing their job or those whom can't be civil.

[<fuzzyshooter>]

I have chewed out my fair share of clueless photogs that walk into my shot. They do that ONCE if at all. In fact if the other photogs in my market see me on a shoot, they make sure to stay clear of me. They even joke about it.
While you are at it, don't even think of ruining my nat sound....

obviously if you are in a clusterf*** of a situation it's almost impossible to avoid getting in someone's shot, but come on- don't set up your interview in my shot while I am conducting my own interview. That pretty much guarentees you are a rookie in my book.

even on the bad days I love my job :cool:

[Shaky & Blue]

Originally posted by &lt;Shooter&gt;:
First of all, this thing was kinda like a big media free for all anyway...I was the only one with balls to go on stage...I do this frequently, my job is tell a story, and 15 seconds of me shooting wont kill anyone...Perhaps I'm wrong, but from what you wrote it really sounds as though you're the one being uncooperative and overly aggressive in that situation.

Let's examine the picture you've given us. The rest of the photographers mutually agreed to stay back far enough to avoid ruining each other's shots. They were all cooperating in a tough situation to give everyone a reasonable chance to get what they needed. But YOU decided you are just too damned important to cooperate with the other guys just trying to do their jobs, and you stepped in front of them and blocked their shots.

Let me explain this, since you obviously don't understand: your job is no more important than any of theirs. Your story is no more important. YOU are no more important.

Seems like every market has one like you. All the other photogs know you, your attitude and your tactics. And they usually take great (justified) pleasure in squeezing you out and f*cking you over whenever they can.

Congratulations. You've pretty much ensured a lack of cooperation wherever you go.

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:
Perhaps I'm wrong, but from what you wrote it really sounds as though you're the one being uncooperative and overly aggressive in that situation.

Let's examine the picture you've given us. The rest of the photographers mutually agreed to stay back far enough to avoid ruining each other's shots. They were all cooperating in a tough situation to give everyone a reasonable chance to get what they needed. But YOU decided you are just too damned important to cooperate with the other guys just trying to do their jobs, and you stepped in front of them and blocked their shots.

Let me explain this, since you obviously don't understand: your job is no more important than any of theirs. Your story is no more important. YOU are no more important.[/QUOTE]

I'm smiling Shaky because I had the same impression as you.

I'll be interested to hear a clarification of the situation from the original poster.

[<whatever>]

I don't know if you'll get a clarification from the original poster but you'll get a couple of cents from me and that is YOUR job IS more important than others because it's YOUR job. If I want a certain shot, I'll be damned if I'm going to be Mr. Accommodating to other photogs.

I had a roommate once that had a newer car than me and so he thought that it was only appropriate that he got the garage. I asked him what his reasoning was in that and he said it was obvious, his car was newer, nicer, blah blah blah. Well I told him that don't mean jack**** to me because as far as which car has more importance to me, I would say mine because IT'S mine.

Yeah it's somewhat of a piss poor metaphor but whatever.

[Terry E. Toller]

With the exception of a few kids who thought they were special because they work in TV, most of the problems I have run into are STILL photogs walking in front of my lens. They only do it once... It's great to freelance, I don't have to answer to a ND for my actions!

[MrZero]

Originally posted by &lt;Shooter&gt;:
[QB]...I was the only one with balls to go on stage...I do this frequently, my job is tell a story, and 15 seconds of me shooting wont kill anyone...You have to be agressive when getting the story, not after the fact by being an a**hole. I know hes an idiot, I prob should have been a bit more "accomodating" QB]The last shooter in my market who had an attitude like that got canned. And that was at the run-n-gun super competitive station. Reputations precede you, but they also follow you back to the ND and CP. Try to remember that the guy from the competition might be the guy who gets a call from your next would-be CP someday. Or maybe he'll unplug your live truck next time he gets the chance!

On a side note, we have a very small AM radio station who has a sideline commentator for football games. The guy has a habit of walking in front of *all* photogs during the best plays, despite lots of polite requests for the opposite. After a few games, I just started giving him an elbow shove every time he moved toward me. Defensive driving.

Zero

[<gitzo-boy>]

It is unnecessary, at gang-bangs like this, to be a prick. We can all get our fair share of good shots. What does it gain your story anyway to climb on stage (most likely without your tripod) to get some kinda reversals into the crowd. Tell the story of the people involved. We all hate those photogs who step in front of us, but it happens.

[NoWay]

So whatever, you're more important than anyone else...so what happens when you meet another prick with an attitude just like you? Irresistable object vs. Immovable force? Or just 2 pains in the ass getting what they deserve.

You may think that you're all that and a bag of chips, but I guarentee you that there's someone out there that's better than you are, bigger than you are, meaner than you are, and would love to take you out at the knees.

I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but it's better for all of us when we work together. You may get that good shot once, or even several times, but once your rep gets around you'll be frozen out all the time. It's a small business, learn to play nice in other people's sandboxes.

[<whatever>]

The only rep I'm going to get is that of a hard working photog who does what needs to be done. I assure you, this isn't typical of my work ethic but certain stories call for a little aggression and I'd rather it be at the expense of another set of call letters and not mine.

All that and a bag of chips...nah! I'd have to show you my tape in order for you to think that but whatever.

[<oldster>]

WHATEVER is about to learn a basic lesson. Pay back is a bitch. The only thing with a longer memory than an elephant are photogs who have been screwed over by one of their own.

[<retiredchief>]

Originally posted by &lt;whatever&gt;:
The only rep I'm going to get is that of a hard working photog who does what needs to be done. I'd have to show you my tape in order for you to think that but whatever.Yeah, whatever. You keep that attitude. You can have years of experience and the best tape I've seen in years. But when I call some of the other guys in your shop and your market to check you out.... a "badman" attitude on the street is an automatic deal breaker with me. I'd hire a guy with less experience and help him learn to do it right rather than put another jerk on the street in my market.

[<nat sound rules>]

when i broke into the business years ago i was the market bad ass. i did what i wanted to do when i wanted to do it. if i wanted a shot i would go and get it, regardless of what other stations were there. i thought i was it. but one day an older photographer grabbed me and told me that he was happy with my work but i was getting a reputation as an a-hole. i had no idea. i thought i was doing my job and no one was going to tell me what to do. but after a few years, i finally learned that its okay not to be super competitive. i learned that the "gang bangs" could actually be a lot easier if we all got along. and it is true. sure i still get the competitive juices flowing...but i understand that we're all here to do our jobs so we might as well make it easy for each other.

[Lensmith]

I work in a place where everyone has the attitude of "whatever". It's an ugly situation even at the most mundane press conference. Pushing and shoving. Tripods set up right in front of existing tripod positions.

I'm lucky being taller and bigger than most of the other photogs here. I can hold my ground and get what I need but it's not the "fun" I used to have when there was cooperation. Creativity is gone as well. It's basic survival, nothing more.

There is a core group of photogs here who look after each other. We protect each others spots and work together during the crazy gang bangs. It took me a while to work my way into this close knit group but it's made a world of difference. We look for photogs like "whatever" and they get taught a lesson very quickly. Usually at the expense of their gear or pride.

I'm not a jerk by any means. In fact my rep down here is being a nice guy who will help someone out in a jam. That doesn't stop me from standing up for myself or my friends who do what we can to work together and be professional.

No words I write will change "whatever" from thinking he was right in being selfish. That knowledge will come, without a doubt, in the future. Delivered by other photogs who have decided they're not going to take it any more.

This job is not just about how well you shoot tape. It's about getting along with people and your own personal reputation. If you don't think your reputation is important to your peers, you'll find work can be very difficult...if not impossible...when you are working along side others.

[BoomDrive]

This has actually come up in a few recent stories I've worked on.

A nightside example: our liveshot involved the driveway and overhang at a hospital's emergency room. A rather dim background involving a couple rows of flourescents, some decorative lighting on the walls along the sidewalks. A few ambulances had parking lights on where they sat. I set up my reporter with two lights: a key and a back light (with various diffusions), and waited for our liveshot to hit.

A photog from another station arrived five minutes later. He set up roughly ten feet away from us, somewhat between us and the background. Four lights: three on his reporter (two umbrellas), and a 1K shooting at the driveway.

I'm not lazy with my lighting. Just like most others, I do what I can to make it look good. In my opinion, there wasn't a reason to have a 1K toasting the background (especially when both reporters were wearing darker colors). Working at night, I believe it makes more sense to make it look like a night scene if you leave the ambience of the light you might have. Throwing up a 1K killed all the natural lighting in the background, lit up a bunch of reflectors on the ambulances and parking barriers, and threw hard shadows. It made both of our shots look extremely tacky.

I got the feeling he did it to try "upstaging" the lighting I had out, and I feel that it lessened the quality of both shots.

After our shots, we were asked to tape a short segment for the morning shows. In the middle of shooting, the competing photog began dropping his mast. The resulting hiss prompted both my reporter and I to stop what we were doing, look over, and roll our eyes. Sure, it was tape, but the guy couldn't possibly be that naive to what we were trying to do.

I've never seen the guy show the professional courtesy I've seen a lot of other photogs display.

I almost want to give it right back to him. I made it a point to memorize the guy's face. ;) Like Lensmith's comment above, there's photogs from other stations I'm happy to see at the scene. Nothing helps pass the time a little bit easier during a "wait and see" type situation.

This guy's not one of them. Ugh.

[Austin Reeves]

I've learned to work with the photogs around me, and I learned it VERY quickly being the youngin' in town. I have several guys at the other stations that I'm happy to see on scene. We watch each others backs, we try and work around each other, and I have had them even alert me if something major is happening.

Do we all try and get our shots, of course. But we understand if one of us needs to slide in front for a few seconds to get a quick shot. Usually after we do it, we trade spots and the other guy gets his own version.

Occasionally you meet the guy that is just going to do his own thing and **** the rest of us. Ya know what? Let him. I won't let him "ruin" my stuff and he can burn all the bridges he wants. Soon he'll have to cross one of those bridges on another story, and while we're helping each other get BETTER stuff, he'll be looking around wondering what's going on.

Liveshot

[<whatever>]

i said it was not typical of my work ethic but some stories call for a little aggression.

for the record, i get along just fine with all of the other media in my market and sometimes I have the hangover to prove it.

take my previous post the way you want. if you ask me, it's just a feeding ground for all of you other guys to play the noble photog role.

you don't fool me for one minute!

go ahead and charge the other guy's battery or stand way in the back so you don't get in their precious crossfire. in the meantime, i'll be getting the shots i need.

[<Old Guard>]

Originally posted by &lt;whatever&gt;:
go ahead and charge the other guy's battery or stand way in the back so you don't get in their precious crossfire. in the meantime, i'll be getting the shots i need.Yeah, in Hooterville! :D

[<moogster>]

Step in front ofmeand I would have let you know through the back of your knee cap!

Obviously you don't have eys at the back of your head, so you did not see yourself block his shot. You both think alike, otherwise you both would not have gone after the same moment to photographer. So hug your brother next time.

As it is we all trying to do the same job, so follow what has been pointed out, keep an eye on your brothers with the full knowledge that "we pjs" are movers. None of us stay in one spot, the coutesy you extend today will be rewarded in the future... else when you block again, expect to loose your legs from under you.

[<flashcrashsmash>]

Yeah, I used to be so engrossed in that up-close-and-personal stuff that I would forget there were other photogs there, and I'd piss them off. Unless it's a gang-bang courthouse interview where everyone's pushing & shoving each other anyway, it's better to just keep the same distance as everyone else. In other words, do as the Romans do.

[NEWS_HAWK]

Several moons ago I was shooting outside the Houses of Parliment in London. Standing behind the Police barrier to get a couple of seconds of an MP leaving Parliment after some scandal or another. I am standing on the ground and behind me are two Still photogs standing on 3 foot ladders as the MP (Member of Parliment) walked past My camera was wrenched backwards from my shoulder pulling me to the ground. As I turned around to regain my footing I see this Still Photogs hand on the back of my Rig. I get back to shooting and it happened again. As I swung around to confront him I managed to wack him in the lip with the Anton Bauer brick the resulted in his lip exploding. The still guy next to him starts shouting "Leave my Man alone" and starts to pound on me with his monopod. A split second later two Police officers pulled the barrier away and helped me back in front of the barracade. The Officer said in a loud voice you will get a better shot from over here. Much to the anger of the still boys. Who were shouting that I was to be arrested for assaulting them. The police saw the whole thing luckily from the first moment they started pulling at my rig to the accidental wack in the Lip from my camera. Thats just one incident I have had in the past.

We are all trying to do a job and attemptng to get the best pictures possible often under ridiculous circumstances, Civility seems to go out the window these days. Another sad show of the times.

Stay safe folks.....

[<positions>]

I just touch someone on the shoulder if they step in front of me. If they push their way further I know it's not an accident and I have to push back. You have to protect your space

[<David Sussman>]

It's not that tough to get what you need even in a gang-bang situation. There are folks in my market who are less agreeable than others and they rarely get "a little help" from their peers. If I need a little extra space to squeeze in, I usually get it because those I ask know I would (and have in the past) accomodated them.

As far as having to be obnoxious, I don't see the need. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, I truly would rather be remembered by my peers as a nice person rather than the guy who always got the center position of a perp walk. It's just not worth it. When it comes right down to it, you really have only two things in life - your health and your reputation and you have a good bit of control over the latter.

[marv3]

Out here in LA we have all sorts of problems with still photographers. Some are cool but for the most part there assholes, Especially at entertainment events. At the red carpet stuff they have sections for video and still. But it only takes one guy with a hard on for the star of the hour to mess with people. I had three guys crowding me and they didn't care. But here is how you take care of that. Depending on what side they are on just swing your camera around fast and you will hit him in the back of the head with the anton bauer. Knocked a filling out of his mouth and my fellow videographers backed me up. Felt really good . :)

[ArtY1]

I wanted to put my 2 cents in here as I use to be a still Photog before making the move to video. The one thing I cant stress enough is cooperation. YES we all have a job to do BUT it can be done well if we all communicate a little before , during and after the event. None of us can admit to not getting caught up in the moment and occassionaly we do step in others way This I beleive is going to happen so except it. By being a professional you can adjust by either letting that shot go or finding another angle or moving in closer yourself if possible. Cooperation is the name of the game and you would be amazed on how easy it is for everyone to get their "shoot" one you extablish some ground rules..Good luck

[<photog3535>]

Ok, this is how I look at it. I have only been a photog for about 2 years now, and I think I have picked up a lot. One thing I have definately learn, is WHEN AT ALL POSSIBLE, stay out of each other's shots. But this is news. Let's face it, it's extremely competitive. In Shooter's situation, I would have just gotten what I needed without intruding. His actions in that situation were wrong. But on something more competitive, I couldn't care less if I get in someone's shot. When someone is being arrested, BAM, I get my shot. If I get in the way I get in the way. We are all, and should all, be very competitive. But that does NOT mean we can be jerks. I am competitive with other photogs in this area all the time, but when it comes down to it we all get along. We all have jobs to do, and we all face extreme pressures. We have to do what we have to do, and in some situations it gets sticky and heated. Oh, and by the way. For those of you who get outrageously upset when someone walks in your shot, remember, it could be an honest mistake. Just simply reminding the person in a nice way would be a good first step. If they are a jerk after that, then all bets are off. I guess what I am saying is that it's not good to be on either side of the extreme. Try to stay balanced.