Ordering a pizza in the year 2020.

[pre-set]

http://aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf

[Baltimore Shooter]

Gotta love those Repubicans who will know every detail of your life, esp. after they've been evesdropping on your emails and phone calls.

Warren

[Freddie Mercury]

Gotta love people who think there's a dime's worth of difference between the parties. It's Alien vs Predator, baby.

[pre-set]

Gotta love those Repubicans who will know every detail of your life, esp. after they've been evesdropping on your emails and phone calls.

Warren



So, I guess you're going ahead and predicting Republican victories in the next 4 Presidential elctions, I would assume by that statement? We're talking about 2020, afterall.

That's pretty optimistic, don't cha think?

[Foxwood]

McCain has already won. I saw it here:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks

[Baltimore Shooter]

McCain has already won. I saw it here:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks
Another rigged election favoring the Republicans. Now why am I not surprised.

That video may be closer to the truth than you might think.

Warren

[Foxwood]

Scary. Ain't it?


It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.
Joseph Stalin

[Terry E. Toller]

Actually, it ends up being the evil of two lessers... the republicans stab you in the right side of the back and the dems in the left side of the back... all turns out the same. and remember, before they can give something to someone else, they have to take it away from you...

[amp]

The more the federal government takes rights away from the little guy, the more I feel a 2nd Civil War may happen in the next 50-75 years. Your local and state government may affect your day to day life more (potholes in roads, red light cameras) but the feds can cripple your pocketbook with mandated federal healthcare and more. Ugh. Makes me want to be a hermit sometimes.

[Wideangle]

"but the feds can cripple your pocketbook with mandated federal healthcare and more. " amp

Man, that would be terrible...making me take healthcare from the government rather than shelling out thousands for an HMO that decides whether or not I get the right
treatment based on the cost of the procedure. We can't have that!

[pre-set]

.... rather than shelling out thousands for an HMO that decides whether or not I get the right
treatment based on the cost of the procedure. We can't have that!



ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Are you sh!tting me?!?!?

What do you think the government will end up doing?!?!?

Oh, that's gotta be the most goddam naive thing I've ever heard someone say!

[Wideangle]

Whose naive?? Which one is looking to make a profit? Do you actually think before you type or does it just flow from below?

[pre-set]

Okay, lem'me get this straight.

You think: "A goverment agency, providing a service, functioning as a complete and total monopoly, without performance incentive, with ZERO competition and little or no accountability, will provide equal or better service than private corporations, WITH market competition, performance incentives, and accountabilty".

That's an accurate representation of what you're saying, yes?

Dude, I want some of whatever you're smoking, 'cause that's gotta be some primo, knockout sh!t.


You wanna know what "government healthcare" will be like? Go down to the DC Department of Motor Vehicles and check that out. Or ask all the Canadians or Brits who are coming here to get care they can't wait on or their own government won't provide them with in their own friggin country !!!!!


Seriously, think about this. Actually THINK about it instead of just dismissing what I'm saying out of hand because you don't like me. I don't like you either, but I at least read what you write and try to understand you...

A private company has an incentive to provide a good service. If they don't, they lose customers and go out of business. Plus, they face market pressure to provide a better service than their competitors. It's called competition. It works. That's why we have Target, KMart, Wal Mart, Sears, ect.... That's why we have NBC, ABC, CBS and FOX. Do you follow me?

A government monopoly doesn't have those market forces to FORCE them to provide good service. They can provide as bad a service as they want, because they're the only game in town and you can't do sh!t about it. Plus, they never have to worry about going out of business, no matter how badly they perform !!!!


Is private healthcare a perfect system? Nope. Is it better than anything any government could provide, ever? Absolutely.

You wanna "fix" the problem of people not being covered? Fine, I agree something needs to be done. Issue vouchers and tax credits for people who don't have coverage. Mandate private employer insurance for part time employees. Create something like a high-risk insurance pool for otherwise uninsurable people like they do for car insurance, and then massively subsidize that pool of people so they can get any coverage they need.

But government healthcare is just creating a lowest-common-denomenator for everyone.

Except the rich, of course, who will just go outside the system like they do in countries with government healthcare now.

[Wideangle]

We are already in a monopolistic situation with health care. What market forces
are you seeing that are forcing competition? That's why the system needs fixing!
Just like the oil companies, there's no other place to go and they know it.
That makes it a monopoly....do you follow me???? Your reliance on "market forces"
to "fix" the problem is rather nieve of you. Is Blue Cross suddenly going to cut
its rates in half to corner the market? How high do heathcare costs need to go for you to admit there is a major problem? If what you are preaching was working,
we wouldn't be having this discussion. The difference between the government
handling service, and the HMO's comes down to money. HMO's are profit based and
therefore have no concern with what they charge because their service is a NEED, not
a WANT. I agree that oversight of a government plan would be paramount so that
quality service would be recieved. But the bottom line would be one system which is
out of control versus another that would keep costs in line with what the rest of the world is paying for healthcare. When market forces don't work, and this is clearly a case where that is happening, the government needs to step in to offer an alternative, Right now we have no place else to go and HMO's are clearly aware of this. The US currently ranks 22nd in the world in overall health
per capita. Not exactly a shining statistic on the state of our heathcare and your
logic on "market forces" creating the best system of heathcare.

[cameradog]

We are already in a monopolistic situation with health care.

Baloney. There are five major hospitals in my city alone. One is run by a foundation formed by the Catholic church. One is run by a university. One is run by the county government. One is run by a private company. One is run by a non-profit children's foundation.

With the exception of the county hospital, where you might as well give up and die, they all compete pretty fiercely for business. If you get sick here, you have definite choices. That is NOT a monopoly by definition. Now multiply that by the number of cities in this country. Then consider that certain hospitals compete on the national level, and people often go outside their local markets for specialized treatment. No monopoly there, either.

If I get sick, I know that I have choices. The university hospital is cheaper than the Catholic hospital. But the Catholic hospital has a lower infection rate. The county hospital is cheapest of all, but they might just kill you from ineptitude if you go there.

Which one do you suppose has the absolute worst service? Which one do you suppose has the absolute worst survival rates, infection rates, misdiagnosis rates and wait times? It's the one run by the government entity. They don't have to worry about competing. The others bust their asses to provide the best care because otherwise they go out of business. I'm sure as hell glad I have choices under the free market system.

[Wideangle]

"I'm sure as hell glad I have choices under the free market system."

Sure you have choices....if you can afford them! Get back to me after you have a
REAL health emergency and explain to me how you plan to pay for your CHOICE!
You only become a real believer when you are hit with a dose of reality..Also get back to me when you have some concrete financial figures, not some half-ass
assumption based on the number of hospitals in your town.

[cameradog]

Sure you have choices....if you can afford them! Get back to me after you have a
REAL health emergency and explain to me how you plan to pay for your CHOICE! You only become a real believer when you are hit with a dose of reality..

I had surgery three weeks ago, idiot. I have been paying for my own insurance for the last sixteen months at a cost of $167 per month. The insurance didn't pay for everything, but what they didn't pay for they negotiated down to a reasonable level. For example, my original emergency room visit that started all this was billed at almost $6000 but was negotiated down to $1400 by BCBS and ended up costing me $600 out of pocket. The surgery will end up being about another $1500 after all the billing. If I still couldn't pay the copays and deductible amounts for the surgery, the hospital would set up a payment plan.

Surprise! I am one of those statistics liberal politicians cry about. I have been either in school or working as a contract worker for that year and a half and didn't have employer-provided health coverage. I therefore know a little something about what I'm talking about.

Also get back to me when you have some concrete financial figures, not some half-ass
assumption based on the number of hospitals in your town.

Those are not assumptions. You said there was a monopoly on health care. That is an outright falsehood. My city is the example that proves it's a falsehood. You're basically just making sh*t up as you go.

[Wideangle]

Heathcare in the US rose 6.7% last year alone. It now accounts for 16% of the total
GNP. That ads up to 2 TRILLION Dollars or $7000.00 a year per person. This amounts to twice as much as anyone else in the world is paying. Given our ranking of 22nd worldwide, it doesn't begin to add up to better heathcare for the money spent. I didn't make this up, these are statistics that anyone, even you can obtain. The MAJOR costs
occur when there are cronic, or long term care issues. You were quick to rattle off
prices but failed to include what your reason was for going to the hospital. I rather doubt that it falls into the catagory of MAJOR heathcare that requires a longer term stay and services.
When hospitals begin to put up marques offering discounts or specials on operations
then I will buy your argument about free market and competition LOWERING costs in the healthcare field.

[cameradog]

Given our ranking of 22nd worldwide, it doesn't begin to add up to better heathcare for the money spent.

And you want to make it worse by socializing it?

[Baltimore Shooter]

With all the money spent on the Iraq war, the US could have provided healthcare for every American for FREE!

Warren

[Wideangle]

"With all the money spent on the Iraq war, the US could have provided healthcare for every American for FREE!' Baltimore Shooter

Exactly! Instead we're pissing it away on a country that could care less if we're
there or not. Our economy is going down the tubes and we somehow have
a couple of Trillion lying around to prop up a puppet regime in the middle east...
And you guys are against something that will actually benefit the people who live here and save them money? That's some kind of f**ked up logic for ya.

[pre-set]

No, we're against a system that WILL ensure that everyone has BAD healthcare.

As I said, is our current system perfect? Nope. Do some things need to be fixed? Yes.

But creating a system where EVERYONE has the same bad coverage is a giant step backwards.

Spreading misery around equally doesn't eliminate it - it just makes everyone miserable.

How about we work on eliminating the problems that DO exist, instead of just making everyone have the same problems?

[pre-set]

With all the money spent on the Iraq war, the US could have provided healthcare for every American for FREE!

Warren

And If my Aunt had been provided with a dick, she could have been my Uncle. Equally relevant as your assertion.

[Wideangle]

It amazes me how you can label universal healthcare as BAD before it has a chance to be implemented. With that type of ability to see the future, you should be picking
lottery numbers instead of trying to put a dick on your aunt.. No one is talking about doing away with the current system. This
would be an option that would enhance and hopefully create true competition. I'm for having more options and choices.

[pre-set]

Now I'm really confused....

[Baltimore Shooter]

Now I'm really confused....
Didn't take much ;)

Just yankin' yo chain.

Warren

[104imdirect]

And If my Aunt had been provided with a dick, she could have been my Uncle. Equally relevant as your assertion.

You want to put a universally bad dick on your aunt?

[pre-set]

You want to put a universally bad dick on your aunt?


Nah, my Aunt's pretty wealthy, so I'm sure she'd be able to go outside the system and get a really first rate, gigantic dick!