Sony PDW-700 XDCAM

[Myblue]

Has Sony released any preliminary prices yet on this beast?

[ISDV]

I just found this document on another forum.

Preliminary Product Announcement PDW-700 & PDW-HD1500 (http://www.roithner.at/webcontent/download/PDW700.pdf)

It looks like this is already several months old because they are talking about the launch at IBC 2007.

It says 30.000 Euro. With the current rate that's about US Dollar 40.000

[Baltimore Shooter]

So you mean $40k w/o a lens. Not bad.

Warren

[Shootblue]

Considering what the 530 is priced at, not too bad in comparison.

[Canonman]

So you mean $40k w/o a lens. Not bad.

Warren

Around 38K is what I've been hearing. Not sure on whether it includes the VF at that price.

cm

[Macro]

I just ordered two of them. I got them for $39,000 list. My actual price will be lower, but is not firm yet.

Yes-a VF and a cam mic are included.

[dinosaur]

I don't see 24p as an included feature.

[Flaca Productions]

rumor is that 24p will be included (with under-crank and over-crank) via a firmware upgrade in the 'future'

this is 2nd hand info to me - i can't personally confirm.

[Tippster]

It's a 2/3" chip camera - you can use your 600's lens.

[Skipcam]

I'm hearing 35 - 38K for the PDW-700 which will be available in April. No progressive 24P or 30P on this model. Then, at end of 2008 year, release of the PDW900 (guessing at the model designation here!). This one with 24P/30P and under/over crank. Essentially the same features as the current HDCAM F900R. Price: about 50K. Ahhh don't you love rumours!

[Canonman]

If they may add 24p as an "option", chances are it is probably already written into the master software code, perhaps not onto the e-proms of the camera without an "upgrade" fee.

At least they were cognizant of past infuriated customers this go-around by including a viewfinder with this ENG camera.

No, they included the vf with the F350 also. You should also know that firmware upgrades for my F350 have not cost a single penny. Sony has not been charging for these upgrades. And there are more updates planned for the F330/350 cameras.

The PDW-U1 drive is based in part, on feedback from those of us who were early adopters of XCDAM. No, it's not the same as your other drive recorder. Keep in mind that the XDCAM disc format is much more robust than consumer stuff and has a lot more error checking/correcting code for data integrity. You won't have to pay for the firmware upgrade to make it write back to disc. The initial release of the drive unit without write back capability is meant for giving post facilities an inexpensive route to accepting material originating on XDCAM disc. When the unit gets write back functionality added, it will be the recommended archival method for the flash based XDCAM EX cameras.

In the current day, products are often released to get them in the marketplace, with planned firmware or software upgrades to keep the products from becoming obsolete as quickly, thus protecting your initial investment.

cm

[Canonman]

Sorry, CM for not being specific. I was referencing the F900, which at a base price of around $78k or so, should for that kind of money, have a high-rez viewfinder which is inclusive in the price, not as an option. The F-350 has a larger viewfinder than the F-330.

I am all plus on the new 2/3" model, and certainly wasn't comparing the quality of a DVD over XDCAM HD, simply the cost of manufacturing these units does not cost that much more than their consumer units. I would bet my junk boat on it.

It has been 3 or 4 years since I purchased a new camera. I do recall having to pay for software upgrades for my BVP-90 and BVW-D600 cameras. They were not so open-archetecture back in those days.

When I owned my D50WS, There were a couple of hiccups in the software. They offered updates for no cost and even sent me the little cards to perform software upgrades. Sounds like Sony may be a little more understanding nowadays, but I can't understand why they continue to nudge the end-user into products by not offering features that are already in their software code.

As they are masters of refining technologies, they certainly know how to make a 24p capable camera and have been doing this for years. Why not make that feature standard in this new camera they are releasing, instead of dangling another carrot on a stick? It all boils down to money...

There is a money issue involved, that much is true. As far as 'already in the software code', well that's a kind of-sort of. This isn't so much a flipping one bit to enable new features type of thing. I have known that practice to take place with certain vendors of non-video related stuff. The firmware updates thus far on my camera were re-writes to re-allocate resources(ram buffer for cache recording) with more optimized code without jeopardizing existing functions. With a modern camera like I'm using, most of the switches are not hard switches at all (the power switch being most notable). Instead, the switch has the function of toggling an I/O bit to a microprocessor bus and is assigned its function by firmware code. Even the white balance toggle on the front can now be assigned to a different function, bizarre as that may seem.

Now, as to the 24P thing with the PDW-700, there may be some restriction of features because Sony does have a three tiered approach to HD offerings.

HDV -consumer/low end professional
XDCAM HD - mid range
HDCAM/SR - high end

So, they can't exactly offer all the functionality of an F-950 in the F-700 camera. And the forthcoming shoulder mount HDV camera won't offer all the functions of an F-355 or F-700.

I anticipate that Sony will move the XDCAM format with optical or flash recording into the higher tier in the future and quit producing tape based cameras altogether. Keep in ming that the F-700 will bump the image quality over the current XDCAM HD offerings and I have heard wind of even faster data rates coming down the pipe at some point. They are committed to the XDCAM format and intend to implement it in phases.

The other thing is you have to look at is the intended market for the camera to see why the feature set is what it is. The F330/350 cameras were intended less as ENG cameras and more as mid range industrial/corporate/indie HD cameras. Thus the inclusion of 24P but no 720 capability. In contrast, the F-700 is aimed squarely at the ENG folks who, for the most part, won't use 24P, but will need access to both HD broadcast standards of 720 or 1080 so that any network could make use of it. The larger imager will offer increased dynamic range and low light to some degree over the 1/2 cameras which again, is for handling the wide range of scenarios found in daily (and nightly) ENG use.

The little XDCAM EX camera is not really meant for ENG use. It is intended to be a superior offering of image quality to the wedding/event video market, having larger imagers with full raster resolution. But, the EX leaves out some of the functions found on the F330/350 cameras.

cm

[Baltimore Shooter]

I for one, think it's a mistake for Sony not to include 24P with this camera. Sure, it's aimed at the ENG market, but why not the EFP market as well? That's the way the D-600 was marketed. There are doc clients who would want 24P. There's no reason why this camera couldn't serve both markets. I'd prefer the 24P board to be included w/ the price of the camera. However, at the very least, it should be available as an option.

Anyone know if this XD will shoot PAL as well as NTSC?

Warren

[Canonman]

Anyone know if this XD will shoot PAL as well as NTSC?

I could practically guarantee it will do both. That's becoming commonplace on all new cameras. But remember Warren, in HD there is no PAL or NTSC, just ATSC and it's the same resolution and chroma sampling, with frame rates based around 50 hz power (50i/25p) for European stuff.

cm

[Max Girth]

I was at a Sony broadcast retailer's open-house today (some of you will be able to guess)...

...and I overheard "PDW-740".

I did not butt in to ask what it was. Since I was one of the few there that ever knew what the 700 is, I figured it was not for my ears :-)

Based on how they did things with the 700 series HDW units, I'm doubting it's a big feature upgrade, whatever it is.

[ISDV]

The only difference between the PDW-700 and PDW-740 are that it has FIT CCD's and is reserved for the Japanese market only.

[Max Girth]

So you're saying the north american market gets the fat and out-of-shape CCDs?

I'm getting sick and tired of foreign companies passing judgement on americans.

[Canonman]

So you're saying the north american market gets the fat and out-of-shape CCDs?

I'm getting sick and tired of foreign companies passing judgement on americans.

Funny, real funny. :D

cm

[Myblue]

We got a price quote from a Sony rep today at our station on the PDW-700. We are demo'ing the F-355 camera and PDU-1 drive for a week or so.


PDW-700
$28,000 without viewfinder

$32,000 with it

By the way, the 355 is very nice, 45 minutes of full HD vid transferred in about 7 or 8 minutes.

[Baltimore Shooter]

PDW-700
$28,000 without viewfinder

$32,000 with it

Eh, go without the viewfinder option. The viewers won't notice the difference anyway. :D

Great price! Any word on if it has a 24P option card or not?

Warren

[Myblue]

He said it's basically the top end ENG type camera, no 24p option on the first model, and also said the average shooter wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the video on the 700 and 355.

[Canonman]

also said the average shooter wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the video on the 700 and 355.

Which is what we've been saying all along to people who wanted to poo-poo on the F350 "cause it's only a 1/2 inch camera'.

cm

[2000lux]

So if the 350 uses more of the 1/2" chip than most 1/2" chip cameras (I read that it does some where) and that's why it looks so good. Will the 700 look better than most 2/3" chip cameras because it will use more of the 2/3" chip?

Most sales guys couldn't tell the difference between a 1/4" chip and a 2/3" chip, or at least they'd never admit to it.

[Canonman]

So if the 350 uses more of the 1/2" chip than most 1/2" chip cameras (I read that it does some where) and that's why it looks so good. Will the 700 look better than most 2/3" chip cameras because it will use more of the 2/3" chip?

Probably not. The reason being that it would alter the relationship with standard 2/3 HD lenses. There weren't really any 1/2 inch HD cameras on the market prior to the F330/350. New lenses were developed by Canon and Fujinon for the 1/2 cameras. The tech at my local Fujinon service center 'claimed' that my lens was identical to their 2/3 lenses with the exception of the rear flange section.

Where you read about the 1/2 thing was in Sony's press release prior to NAB '07. I read it also, and that's when things started to make more sense.

cm