40 Too Old?

[N.Klaeser]

I am a 44 year old video professional in the process of looking for Photojournalist/Editor position at a small-medium market TV station. I have over 20 years experience in the television field, but most of my experience is in post-production editing and shooting. I have sent out numerous resumes and sample DVD's to markets such as South Bend, IN, Indianapolis, Waco, TX, Springfield, IL and some others with no response. Do stations invest in seasoned video veterans with limited exposure to ENG and live-truck experience?
I believe that my sample reel, although lacking any station footage
shows good composition, proper exposure and tight editing. Any thoughts or known openings?

[eb]

You must really want to work as a TV news photographer.
With your experience...in production... you seem to be going down in potential earnings. I am not in your shoes, of course...so I can only venture a guess. But I would think the pay at a small to medium market for news photog...would be considerably less than a production job with 20 years experience.

But there are definately cases of older folks getting into local TV news..and loving it. If you want to do it... go for it.

[AKinDC]

What's on your sample reel? If there aren't any news packages, most chiefs will probably pass you by unless they have no other applicants.

[N.Klaeser]

Well, there are no packages with station call letters on them. But, I have examples of videos that could be translated to news coverage.
I have edited over 40 documentaries for A&E and The History Channel and have examples of footage that I would consider properly shot and edited and I do have 20 years of experience. I think if a chief photographer can look past not having a station logo on the footage, then I have a pretty good chance at landing a job at a station.

[David R. Busse]

Well, there are no packages with station call letters on them. But, I have examples of videos that could be translated to news coverage.
I have edited over 40 documentaries for A&E and The History Channel and have examples of footage that I would consider properly shot and edited and I do have 20 years of experience. I think if a chief photographer can look past not having a station logo on the footage, then I have a pretty good chance at landing a job at a station.

Can you shoot fast? Can you light like a documentarian in five minutes' setup time instead of two hours? News photography is a constant juggling act of speed and quality, with the ultimate question "did you make your slot" and "did you get the shot...?" Can you tell a compelling story (shooting and editing) in 90 seconds? Sounds easy, but a 1:30 package has little room for a lot of techniques that are a staple of documentary shooting. News photographers are masters of using every short cut in the book and making the final product look like no short cuts at all were used.

That said, there are plenty of tricks the documentarian uses that can be adapted to the news photographer's bag of tricks, within the constraints of time. Much of what I learned about lighting came from a network veteran of news and documentary shooting. Many of his lessons started with "here's the proper way" and ended with "here's a quicker way to make it look like the proper way."

Frankly, with your experience, I think a good chief photographer would look at you as a person who might be able to teach a younger staff by example...as long as you are willing to learn (and use) a lot of quick and dirty shortcuts.

BTW--I'm 51, and applaud your effort to try the world of runnin' and gunnin.'

[N.Klaeser]

Thanks! I look forward to the challenge!

[code20photog]

Aside from the above, you have to ask yourself if your 44 year old body is going to be able to take the pounding this job will give it. The run and gun, off the shoulder, carrying the gear, getting in and out of the van all day kind of job that this is will take a toll on your body quickly. I'm 37, not in the best shape of my life, but decent, and there are a lot of nights the aches and pains kick in after a hard day on the job.

Now there are a lot of guys at my station older than 44, but they've been doing it all thier lives for the most part. Don't know what kind of shape you're in, but it is something to think about.

[Lensmith]

Aside from the above, you have to ask yourself if your 44 year old body is going to be able to take the pounding this job will give it. The run and gun, off the shoulder, carrying the gear, getting in and out of the van all day kind of job that this is will take a toll on your body quickly. I'm 37, not in the best shape of my life, but decent, and there are a lot of nights the aches and pains kick in after a hard day on the job.

Now there are a lot of guys at my station older than 44, but they've been doing it all their lives for the most part. Don't know what kind of shape you're in, but it is something to think about.

I'm 51...and still going strong. ;)

The physical side of the job is an important issue to consider.

David Busse summed it up well too. Balancing how well you know something can be done with the time constraints.

The only other issue which you might find difficult to deal with is having younger people, with less experience, telling you what to do.

I still learn a lot from those who are younger...and they from me.

Shooting skills are important to get a job in a newsroom. But also as important is the ability to get along and share your knowledge without putting people off.

You still want to be able to come into work the next day and have people want ot work with you.

I think what most of us are trying to em part is the level of frustration you may have to deal with and making sure you understand the big picture of photog life in a local newsroom.

Quality is important...but time avaialble determines what you can and can't do. You have to meet those time deadlines without fail.

Your skills will translate. It's the working environment which may take a little getting used to.

But don't let that put you off if it's something you feel you really want to do. ;)

[BluesCam]

FWIW, I started in news at 42. I came from a production background as well (PBS).
I met with the chief photog and showed him some of my camera work and editing.
He thought I could do the job and so I was brought on board. I worked there for
1.5 yr. and then started my own company.

I'm sure you can find a chance if you keep looking. The turn over is high and stations get strapped some times. A positive "can do" attitude is important (listen to me talk)!! ;>}

Being older can be an advantage. I remember the reporters requesting me as the shooter quite a bit. I'm sure it was partially because I was older than the other guys.
They think you are more mature, (if they only knew...) :>}

Realize it will be very fast paced at times and full of stress. Yet, you will have an opportunity to cover some very interesting stories.

If you want to do the job, I'm sure you will be fine. As mentioned, be in shape. You will be carrying gear and moving fast with no grip to help you. If you're lucky, the reporter will carry the sticks.

I remember having to run tapes down the hall to master control on occasion for 1st block (like in the movie)! :>} I must say I don't miss daily news. Still, I'm very glad I had the experience.

If you land a job, become friends with the assignment editor :>}

Good luck

[MtnShooter]

Go to the Chief Photographer's board, here. Post a message that you'd be willing to come shoot at their station for a day or two on your nickel, just to show what you can do. Then make them not want to let you go home.

[Some Guy in LA]

Get thee to the News Video Workshop this March...would be perfect for you to hang with a few hundred photogs, still guys, producers, students, and reporters.

NPPA.ORG


SGILA

[way kool productions]

47 here, still going strong and loving it.....

[Sore Shoulder]

If you'd like you can post some of the pieces you have on your reel here. We can offer feed back, which might help you in the making of your reel.

Good luck to you.

[micaelb]

PM me here, we have two openings.

I'm also older than you and still leaving a lot of younger guys in the dust. It's easier to do this job when you know enough to work smart and as long as you are willing to keep learning you keep working smarter.

[F4 Fan]

So here’s my story. I got my first internship at the age of 30. I had spent the years after college working in retail and trying to jump-start a career as a high school teacher and coach. But at the time that I was trying to get into teaching there just weren’t any full-time positions. Kind of discouraging to be 27 and to hear one of the old-timers tell me that if I can hang in there for five more years there’ll be jobs once everyone hits retirement age. So I changed careers.

The early years of my TV career were in PBS and at a Public Access station. I did everything from shooting and editing to designing a studio, even spent a horrible year of my life in management.

Eventually I found work as a production shooter at a small UHF station; where I did all things shooting, commercials, PSA’s, infomercials, sports and yes some news on occasion, even stills when there was a need for it. After nearly 13 years there I was offered a job at a boutique cable network shooting daily news – I was 47. At first it wasn’t much different from production work. Lot’s of time to set up the two lights I had, shoot b-roll, surf the web. Then they drastically reduced the number of hours of daily news they were producing and the workload for the photographers actually increased. No longer were we depending on satellite interviews to fill time slots, it was all packages. And we were not only were we shooting for the daily newscast, but a weekly magazine show and all the specials that the news division was now responsible for producing. No need to hire freelancers anymore when you had four staff shooters.

Well that network was sold and we were all laid off, but the shooters were there to the bitter end finishing whatever projects were still in production.

I’ll be 54 in March – still shooting news albeit in a bureau where the workload fluctuates. Some days it’s not much different from local news, other days it’s sitting in the elements baby-sitting a live-shot and some days I write epistles for the masses on the web. I have a sore back and bad knees, ibuprofen has become my new best friend, but being a news shooter is what I’ve always wanted to be in this business and for a fairly pedestrian shooter I’ve reached about as high a level as one can go in this business – at least for photographers.

Everyone’ given good advice – I can’t add anymore. Just want to you let you know that your production skills can be of immeasurable help to you. In time you could be the go-to-guy for sweeps pieces, documentary shoots, tricky live-shots, the list of possibilities is endless. Good luck and keep the aspirin nearby.

[Freddie Mercury]

Go to the Chief Photographer's board, here. Post a message that you'd be willing to come shoot at their station for a day or two on your nickel, just to show what you can do. Then make them not want to let you go home.

That's a perfect way to show you are desperate and you don't value your own work. If somebody wants you to do a tryout shoot, that's one thing. To come work free for a couple of days is bull crap.

[MtnShooter]

That's a perfect way to show you are desperate and you don't value your own work. If somebody wants you to do a tryout shoot, that's one thing. To come work free for a couple of days is bull crap.

You're entitled to have a difference of opinion. But this reply shows a lack of professionalism.

[shade]

nope, trying out locally for a couple of hours is one thing......traveling to a station on my dime to show them is out of the question....it screws the rest of us (one does it why can others also)....50 and going real strong.......

[MtnShooter]

nope, trying out locally for a couple of hours is one thing......traveling to a station on my dime to show them is out of the question....it screws the rest of us (one does it why can others also)....50 and going real strong.......

Neal admits he has nothing to show, and the fact is he'll be standing in line with young hotshots fresh out of journalism school. I would not suggest the same thing to these upstarts, or to experienced shooters. But as we get older, we need to get more creative to make ourselves stand out from the pack when we have no experience in new things we'd like to give a try. No chief is going to spend much time looking at a reel without any packs in it; but a chief might pay attention to someone who is saying: "Hey, I'll put my money where my mouth is."

Or not. But I sure don't see why you think it'd screw you out of anything if he tried it. That seems a litle insecure, to me.

[LuccaBrazzi]

..have had initial problems "converting" to local TV news.

It's like going from being a plastic surgeon at a Beverly Hills clinic...to being "Hawkeye Pierce" on M*A*S*H: Get 'em in...cut 'em open...yank it out...sew them up...NEXT PATIENT!!!

Does your reel truly reflect abilities of a run-and-gun shooter? I think most CP's can spot a run-and-gunner from a "visual artiste."

And are you making it clear that you'll work for whatever the going rate is? (again, many ex-documentarians have too-high expectations of salaries.)

In any event...keep at it. Don't give up.

[Freddie Mercury]

You're entitled to have a difference of opinion. But this reply shows a lack of professionalism.

No, your suggestion lacks professionalism. Professionals get PAID.

[Freddie Mercury]

Neal admits he has nothing to show, and the fact is he'll be standing in line with young hotshots fresh out of journalism school. I would not suggest the same thing to these upstarts, or to experienced shooters. But as we get older, we need to get more creative to make ourselves stand out from the pack when we have no experience in new things we'd like to give a try. No chief is going to spend much time looking at a reel without any packs in it; but a chief might pay attention to someone who is saying: "Hey, I'll put my money where my mouth is."

Or not. But I sure don't see why you think it'd screw you out of anything if he tried it. That seems a litle insecure, to me.

That seems a little short sighted, to me. Did you read the thread on getting paid what you're worth (http://www.b-roll.net/forum/showthread.php?p=178688)? Cameradog had a line in it that sums things up nicely: "Never give your work away for free, because giving it away means it's not worth anything." He was quoting Red Skelton, but it still applies.

When I got out of school, I had a reel that was less marketable than this one. I solved that problem by finding a guy from the school who wanted to be a reporter, renting some gear and producing enough stories to make up a demo tape. That tape got both of us jobs, and nobody gave their work away for free.

[eb]

I obviously wouldn't recommend everyone out there looking for a job...to offer to work a day or two for free. I've never heard of any chiefs or news directors offering that kind of deal either. They might even stay away from that kind of deal, due to the nature of our business - interaction with the public - liabilities etc... (It's actually probably illegal according to labor laws?) But maybe its been done before.

But if you think about it... college students not only work for free, they pay out their own cash to the college to work for a TV news program. Of course it is education/training. But when you are 40 years old, are you going to go back to college? Maybe that's what it would take to get some news experience and a demo reel/resume tape. It doesn't sound like working at a college station is an option. So how is a 40 year old supposed to put together a tape?

You need experience to get a job. You need a job to get experience.

It sounds like you already have a tape demonstrating your ability to put a camera on a tripod, point, shoot and edit decently. THAT is half the battle when hiring a rookie news photographer. So I would think you should be able to get work. Have fun.

[MtnShooter]

No, your suggestion lacks professionalism. Professionals get PAID.

Getting paid to take pictures doesn't make you a professional. It just means you have some vocational skills for which you are being paid. Burger-flippers and trash pick-up guys are professionals, by your definition.

A huge part of professionalism is demeanor and the ability to intelligently interact with one's peers, clients, employers and such. Suggesting a colleague's advice to someone who asked for help is "A bunch of crap" is NOT professional demeanor, no matter how many pictures you've taken or how much you've been paid to take them.

As I said previously: You're entitled to have a difference of opinion. Hell, I was wounded twice in battle defending your right to have a difference of opinion. There are more professional ways to express your differences than the one you chose, however.

For the record: I did not make the suggestion to be considered a matter of routine. I was simply suggesting a means by which Neal could think outside the box, in this instance, to give him an edge over the younger and more experienced competition.

Peace,
Charles

[shade]

understand you're point and you are partially right in the sense that he has to stand out some way. my point was more of a general statement like when one station in the market lowers the pay scale, others usually follow. imagine in the future that chief saying "hey its only a three hour drive why dont you come in and shoot for me a bit" etc etc no insecurity just observing what happened in our market...



Neal admits he has nothing to show, and the fact is he'll be standing in line with young hotshots fresh out of journalism school. I would not suggest the same thing to these upstarts, or to experienced shooters. But as we get older, we need to get more creative to make ourselves stand out from the pack when we have no experience in new things we'd like to give a try. No chief is going to spend much time looking at a reel without any packs in it; but a chief might pay attention to someone who is saying: "Hey, I'll put my money where my mouth is."

Or not. But I sure don't see why you think it'd screw you out of anything if he tried it. That seems a litle insecure, to me.