Another Dish Mishap [Archive]

Rad

10-17-2007, 10:07 PM

What do you expect from a small market.

I expect better training.

(Warning, shameless plug here)

Several years back I was asked to develop a safety course for our ENG / SNG truck operators. I've developed a very good and interesting class and I've taken that class on the road to other stations as well.

I know there are other people who teach ENG Safety as well.

Every station should have a safety program. I'll be happy to come teach one.

(End shameless plug)

Having said that, we all know what to do... walk around, check the dish before you go, every time, every time, every time, make it a habit.

sneakybastard

10-17-2007, 10:32 PM

Damn right they should have better training.

I got my start in that market in the mid to late 90's, the NBC affiliate almost had a guy electrocuted by putting the mast into power lines in late 98. After that 2 live trucks were decapitated at drive thru restaurants. NBC is the dominate number 1 there, but since Dave Walker got canned. safety was the last concern of any member of management there, it was always "we can fix it, but don't let it happen again".

I don't know many folks in that market anymore, but every affiliate hires "entry level kids", tries to teach them to shoot (most of it is horrible these days) and gives them the crash course on the truck....raise the mast, point it at the tower.

Training and safety is the key, but that isn't really practiced much anymore in that market, its more along the line of "get the shot up or you're fired"....

Stay tuned, another post from someone who is in the Lubbock market is coming soon, and I'm not going to do the talking about the recent incidents, because I don't work there anymore, but I do know about the past...

TXTechPhoto

10-17-2007, 11:58 PM

From what I heard from colleagues back in Lubbock was all 3 stations had an incident in the past week. The first incident happened to a new kid, considering who his chief is was well trained, just a young nervous kid. His incident occurred when he drove a live truck under an awning at a grocery store. Which caused damage to the mast and transmitter, from what I hear the damage is well under $10,000.

Then another station, one of their fairly new kids parked the truck at a bar near campus to do a live shot for the Tech vs Texas a&m game. The photog raised the mast under a overhanging restaurant sign. The mast hit the sign knocked it over and snapped the mast. The mast and/or sign also totaled two cars parked near. From what I hear the damages could be up to $50,000. This kid also has a good chief but the head engineer does the live truck training and I have personally been trained by him and felt his training was not up to par. Luckily vets like sneaky bastard trained me before going to that shop. Also, this station had a similar incident about 3-4 years ago.

The last incident is the one mentioned in the article above, the damages could be up to half a million dollars. And to top this one off it was the chief!

Canonman

10-18-2007, 12:48 AM

Run&Gun

10-18-2007, 12:52 AM

How the F do you drive a sat truck with the dish up?! Aren't there safety devices to prevent that?

satop

10-18-2007, 02:00 AM

SeattleShooter

10-18-2007, 02:01 AM

How the F do you drive a sat truck with the dish up?! Aren't there safety devices to prevent that?

Ya...its a blinking red light that is conveniently burnt out.

When I ran trucks, if the mast was up and we touch the brake an alarm as loud as a train goes off. But I never attempted to move a truck with it up.

But I will say...I have seen truck opps move a sat truck with the dish up to better possession the dish to its location. I have even seen one drive down the street. Dont get me wrong...I gave that person a piece of my mind.

So no...there are not interlocks on all trucks like I think there should.

Canonman

10-18-2007, 02:19 AM

stop blaming the truck and lack of safety equipment. look up, before raising a dish or mast. and do a walk around before you move the truck. there really is no excuse. a safety switch not working or not being installed properlly is no excuse.

You're right about the human element. But I still believe there needs to be 'helpful' reminders to protect us from ourselves with any number of things, not just sat/mw trucks.

Think of all the enunciators there are in a modern aircraft as an example. When humans get busy, they get distracted. That will never stop, even with all the safety training in the world. Been there, seen that. Some incidents can be chalked up to laziness, but other times it's just trying to juggle too many tasks at once with the wrong priorities. That's why it's best to have a combination of both systems in play... human, and mechanical.

cm

svp

10-18-2007, 06:17 AM

satop,

i agree with you. they guy operating the truck is to blame, not the truck itself. those are big a$$ dishes that aren't exactly hard to see. i don't know the circumstances and really don't care to know because to drive a truck with a dish or mast up is just being careless and stupid. even when the pressure is on and you need that live shot up, there's no excuse for not slowing down and putting safety first. NO PLS IS WORTH SACRIFICING SAFETY.

cameradog

10-18-2007, 08:20 AM

I know a few people who have had mishaps with masts. To a man, every single one said he never thought he would ever do something that stupid. Nobody ever thinks it could happen to him.

I see that attitude reflected in these threads, where people always talk about how stupid you have to be to drive off with the mast up or put a mast into an overhead obstruction. It's not stupid. It's human. It's the same thing that causes intelligent people to fly perfectly good airplanes into the ground and run perfectly good cars off the road.

When you dismiss something someone else does as stupidity, you're basically saying that since YOU're smarter, YOU won't ever do something like that. As soon as you start to believe you'll never make a mistake like that, you have become overly confident. You get comfortable. You get ever so slightly less diligent. And THAT is when you have an accident.

Afterward, you say, "I never thought that would happen to me." Just like every other person who has had a mast accident.

104imdirect

10-18-2007, 08:31 AM

Ok, admittedly I've never operated a live truck. But why oh why can't they install an interlock and/or warning horn that will sound when the ignition is turned on with the mast anywhere other than a full safe condition?

Sounds like the safety needs to start back at the manufacturing level.

cm

At my last shop, every truck had two safety systems. The first (which I didn't think was such a great idea) was an engine kill switch that would turn off the vehicle if you shifted into drive or reverse without the dish stowed. An unfortunate side effect occured if you hit a big bump or drove over railroad tracks - you'd lose the engine and power steering. This was really scary in winter when dealing with icey roads.
The second system was called a D-Tek. This would not allow you to raise the mast unless the dish was straight up (to avoid raising on an angle) and would detect the electromagnetic field around power lines. If the lines were too close, your mast wasn't going anywhere.
http://www.sbe124.org/Tours/Portland/KPDX_Studio/10-10-00_0052.jpg

svp

10-18-2007, 08:41 AM

As soon as you start to believe you'll never make a mistake like that, you have become overly confident. You get comfortable. You get ever so slightly less diligent. And THAT is when you have an accident.

EXACTLY. You get slightly less digilent and into a routine that you ASSUME you've done something and stop double checking everything. That IS when accidents happen and that IS stupidity. I don't care if you've been running a live truck for 20 years, its stupidity if you don't double check everything before driving off in a live truck. Alot of accidents usually occur when someone gets in a rush to get a live shot up or get to another location. Rushing with a live shot and not double checking EVERYTHING is stupidity and if I would ever have one of these accidents I'd freely admit I was stupid. Stupidity is not a question of who's smarter. Its a question of who's safer. When an accident like this occurs, its because of stupidity. That stupidity doesn't necessaritly rest with the operator. If the operator wasn't properly trained, it could rest with the Chief Engineer or Chief Photographer.

shade

10-18-2007, 08:46 AM

ok here goes........

its the ops responsibility....do a walk around a thorough walk look up....lately trucks come with bells and whistles. alarms/lights etc etc....dont rely on them.....just like non linear editing, we don't have to know how to shoot anymore just throw a dissolve in and bingo its fixed, colors are off bingo fix it inhouse (yes i edit non linear) its about basics basics basics..........ok ok im ranting now you get the idea....

Chicago Dog

10-18-2007, 09:23 AM

If the operator wasn't properly trained, it could rest with the Chief Engineer or Chief Photographer.

I completely agree. In one of my former markets, shooters at a rival station had an incredible number of close calls. Driving off with masts up or masts still dropping, nearly putting masts into power lines -- not to mention a guy pulling up in the landing zone of an air-care chopper! They were not safe. More often than not, we'd have to approach their field crews with safety concerns.

Turnover at the station was pretty high; shooters often left after less than a year (and, most of the time, to smaller markets). They were well-known as the weakest station in the market. The guys they did hire were less than desirable. Simply put: they hired who they could get. The only reason you wouldn't get a call back from these guys is if you didn't have a pulse.

They received no training. They had no experience to fall back on. These guys were coming from stations with only one live truck that worked half the time. No sooner did they shake hands with a hiring manager than they were given a camera, the keys to a live truck, and pointed to the latest breaking news situation.

That said, I think it's a good idea to keep an eye on other crews, not just yours.

Anyone who's been part of a media circus can tell you how jam packed a street curb will get with live trucks, equipment, cables, photogs, reporters, emergency personnel -- and onlookers. It's quite easy for one truck to fry a whole lotta people.

If you see someone putting themselves in a dangerous situation, speak up! At most, they'll learn something. At very least, you're keeping yourself safer.

f11vid

10-18-2007, 09:33 AM

I don't hesitate to get a second opinion if it's dark,or I am unsure of a clearance.I'll go tap on the passenger window and say to the reporter,"Take a look at this." It's not phrased as a question.It's their butt on the line,too.I have yet to have a reporter who will not come out and take a look.Or I will ask another photog standing nearby.Ten times out of ten,they will be more conservative than you are,because you are asking their opinion about a life-or-death matter.

Necktie Boy

10-18-2007, 03:19 PM

It's human to mess up, but when it deals with other people's lives, you really have to be 100% of the time on the ball. I would always "look up", park the truck on level ground, and make sure I was clear of trouble. I did this everytime I set up a live shot. Also made sure I had time to set up and a flash light if it was a night shot. Then again, that was my main job, to get the live shot set up.

Rad

10-18-2007, 06:58 PM

From the SNG Forum...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/TVNews/NotMine/Photo_101707_002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/TVNews/NotMine/Photo_101707_003.jpg

NEWSSHOOTER3

10-18-2007, 07:28 PM

Look up before AND after the shot! It is the ops fault, but trucks need alarms. We are human...

amp

10-18-2007, 11:28 PM

Look up before AND after the shot! It is the ops fault, but trucks need alarms. We are human...

Many of us some how survived with just our eyes and a strong flashlight to save our lives for years. NOTHING beats "Look up and Live".

Yes, trucks need safety measures, but some of them suck. Our competition has a truck that needs to be PERFECTLY level to put up the mast. Seriously?!? Even a slight tilt and they have to move the truck around the parking lot. Sucks for breaking news. We have SigAlerts on 2 of our trucks. When they work, they are great. I had one go off AFTER the mast had been up for over an hour, and low and behold, a t-storm was on the horizon.

One thing above all, especially to you new truck ops/photogs, you are in charge of whether it is safe enough to go live, NOT your ND, NOT the desk, NOT your producer, and NOT your reporter. Don't get pressured into a bad situation because you have to be live. It is better to be alive than to be live.

SamG

10-19-2007, 06:54 AM

We put a new safety system into our two latest trucks and it will go into our new one too... instead of just lights and sirens (which can be bypassed), if the dish/mast/jacks are not stowed, you can't shift the truck out of park. This just goes along with the system that you have to hit the brakes to shift out of park (like in any car), you then have to hit the brakes AND have the dish/mast/jacks stowed, as well as having no incoming shore power.

Of course, that system could also fail, so LOOK UP AND LIVE!

Goon

10-19-2007, 07:18 AM

How about taking the mast down FIRST after your shoot before packing up all your gear. If I was in a crazy mad rush I'd much rather leave something behind than drive off with the mast up.

As for looking up a couple of the new trucks I deal with have the mast controls on the outside and the mast up button has to be pressed and held by someone forcing the photog to monitor raising of the mast.

willis

10-19-2007, 11:29 PM

How long before marketing spins this?

"Kxxx was First On The Scene" ....

SamG

10-20-2007, 08:17 AM

As for looking up a couple of the new trucks I deal with have the mast controls on the outside and the mast up button has to be pressed and held by someone forcing the photog to monitor raising of the mast.

Our last two trucks have this, but the photogs all find a way to jam the switch up. "We don't have time to stand there and hold the switch", "It's a 'not needed' safety device because I always pay attention when I park" are the two most popular excuses I hear for bypassing a designed safety device.

thru-the-lens

10-20-2007, 12:07 PM

Our last two trucks have this, but the photogs all find a way to jam the switch up. "We don't have time to stand there and hold the switch", "It's a 'not needed' safety device because I always pay attention when I park" are the two most popular excuses I hear for bypassing a designed safety device.

Bypassing a safety device should be a fire-able offense. No excuesses.

Our station group had a mishap afew years ago. The photog parked the truck. FORCED something to hold the up switch and unrolled the cable. Mast goes up into Power Lines. Photog attaches cable to side of truck. ELECTROCUTED Photog!

Reporter in own vehicle never knew. Off duty EMS tech luckily witnessed the aftermath and was able to save a life. Albiet, one with scaring, and amputations, life long health issues.

We just had another round of Live Truck safety training for news and production employees on Friday for new hires.

SAFETY IS NOT AN OPTION!

thru-the-lens.

Canonman

10-20-2007, 01:16 PM

The best idiot light, audio alarm, interlock switch, or what have you, is the one that you never need because you did what you were supposed to do. IOW, never rely on those devices to replace your own prudent judgement. They are FAIL SAFE devices, designed to save your a$$ if you do have a lapse in judgement as humans are prone to do when chaos ensues and the mind gets overloaded. That's a lot different than just being lazy or indifferent to safety procedures.

cm

cameradog

10-20-2007, 02:42 PM

Bypassing a safety device should be a fire-able offense. No excuesses.

Let's see. Get fired for propping up a switch. Or get fired for missing slot. Either way you might as well quit television and go sell carpet.

But then look at the immediate risk to your employment status. What are your chances of getting fired for propping up a switch? You only get fired if you get caught. Who's going to tell on you? The reporter? She wants you to make slot too.

What are your chances of getting fired if you miss slot? You can't exactly miss slot without anybody knowing it. You can also bet your reporter will be quicker to put the blame on you for missing slot than to report your lapse in safety measures.

Thus there's actually more immediate pressure on making slot than on observing all safety procedures. The obvious objection is that the bigger risk is to your life, but the problem is that the risk to life isn't immediate. It's a more vague risk off in the background somewhere. Smoking and being overweight is also a risk to your life, but people still do it. The more immediate risk to a photog is the risk to the job represented by the producer who keeps calling you wanting to know the status of your package.

Again, you people can call mast accidents stupidity. You can try to prevent them with all manner of training. But the workflow is still designed against you. No matter what you try to do, we WILL continue to have these accidents as long as photogs are overworked and are subject to the more immediate pressure to get the news on NOW. Every single one of us has bad days. A good photog with a perfect safety record can see it all go to hell in a single lapse of judgment.

The only way to effectively prevent these accidents is to build safety measures into the workflow that can't be circumvented, to remove the immediate pressure to make slot from the person operating the truck. These accidents aren't just comprised of a single person making a mistake. Blaming it all on one person is a cheap way out that almost guarantees it will happen again. These accidents instead involve an entire situation that includes many factors that contribute to the outcome, factors that cannot be ignored if you really want to make this job safer.

Goon

10-21-2007, 12:52 PM

Or get fired for missing slot.

If u arrive at the liveshot early enough then making slot shouldn't be a problem.

servo

10-21-2007, 03:25 PM

Walk around the truck twice, looking up and down. Then do it a third time. Mast is down, doors are closed. Check-double check. A brain fart is not worth a job much less a life.

cameradog

10-21-2007, 05:53 PM

If u arrive at the liveshot early enough then making slot shouldn't be a problem.

Glad to know you work in a slow enough news market that you can say that.

redcoat

10-22-2007, 02:02 AM

Thanks to this thread and my recent promotion to chief photog, myself and the rest of the photogs at my station will now be doing a refresher safety course as a reminder about how safety checks are an absolute necessity in our responsibilities EVERY DAY for EVERY SHOT.

Tapeape

10-22-2007, 12:40 PM

When you dismiss something someone else does as stupidity, you're basically saying that since YOU're smarter, YOU won't ever do something like that.

The general read I've been getting - and the opinion I happen to hold myself - is not that the photogs who messed up were stupid, but that their stations are stupid. You can't send a photog out in a live truck without teaching them how to run it safely. "Put the stick up and point the dish" is not enough. You must, must MUST teach them safety, drill them in safety, and have continuing training in safety. My station's guilty of not doing this as well and it drives me nuts. I've been at my current gig a year and have yet to have any safety instruction. Fortunately, I've been well trained in safety in the past, by the guy who *made* Look Up and Live, so I don't need it as badly as some might, but it still wouldn't hurt to have those refreshers.

It boggles my mind why stations don't implement a safety program. Even if they don't care about putting the lives of their crews at risk, they should at least care about the lawsuit that will come if someone messes up and gets hurt.

photogguy

10-22-2007, 12:49 PM

Bypassing a safety device should be a fire-able offense. No excuesses.

Working at an ABC O&O, it is a fireable offense.

rocky1138

10-23-2007, 01:59 AM

SAFETY IS NOT AN OPTION!
agree w/ you 100% here, but...

Bypassing a safety device should be a fire-able offense. No excuesses.

I would say bypassing any actual safety measure should be a fire-able offense.

I've bypassed things that the chief said we should never bypass b/c of safety. This chief also thought we could use a Mag-light as a spot light at night to make sure there was nothing overhead.

I am all about safety, but am completely against stupid "safety" measures that house cats think are smarter than me. On more than one occasion I've had a De-Tek system say that the truck's electric generator is a powerline overhead. And guess what, the more I have to fight the truck's bad "safety devices," the more stressed I get about making slot & the more likely it is for me to do something stupid.

So once again, I have no problem bypassing a house cat's safety device, but I'll never cut corners on safety measures that actually keep me safe & alert.

BUT more importantly, ANYONE have any pictures about the Dish Mishap this thread is all about?

A TV truck gets damaged & no leaked pics to b-roll.net? What type of photogs are we?