NBC Announces HD Camera Choice

[Hiding Under Here]

NBC announced on October 4 that it would be leasing SONY HDW750 cameras for those projects that it felt required shooting on HD. An updated note to freelancers changed the camera of choice to the HDW F900. It also stated that the HDX900 might fit the bill in certain situations, most likely because both cameras, the F900 and the HDX900, capture at 1080i.

They have stated that they will shoot in HD on a case by case basis. There is also an implication that processing HD footage is taxing their hard drives and editing time.

Also, the memo says that these are "interim solutions" until 2009 when the issue of HD acquisition will be revisted. They are obviously looking to go tapeless but don't want to jump too soon.

Has anyone else seen these memos? I'd be interested in your thoughts even if they are in a private message.

[Dennis Dillon]

I have just been sent the NBC freelance change. Let me post it so no facts are missed.
To our community of freelancers:
As you can see from Stacy Brady's note (below), NBC's choice of
camera, until we go "tapeless", is the Sony HDW-F900PRAC1C
(this is a change from the note). We will be leasing these cameras
for the NBC News bureaus worldwide. The decision to shoot on
HD, will be made on a case by case basis due to editing and storage
considerations. We will also continue to shoot Beta SP
with the freelance market.

The acquisition of the new Sony camera, does not preclude the use of
other HD cameras, such as the Panasonic HDX900. This is
another situation, however, that we will deal with on a case by case
basis. As stated below, this is an interim solution until 2009,
by when a final decision, with regard to camera, will be made. There
will be many discussions about issues/workflow in the upcoming
weeks/months. I will keep you posted as we move along.


Thanks,
Susan

______________________________________________
From: Brady, Stacy (NBC Universal)
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:25 PM
To: @NBC Uni BNO Long Island City Everyone; @NBC Uni BNO Tech All;
@NBC Uni brady direct reports
Subject: Camera Update....

Hello All...


Just letting you know that a decision has been made for the HD camera
interim solution. We will be renting the Sony HDW730S Pac5 - order
went in today. We have purchased all the lenses for these cameras, and
we expect delivery of at least half of both the cameras and lenses by
December. We will deploy to all domestic bureaus first in order to
cover upcoming Politics/Olympics and then follow with foreign bureaus
hopefully by February.

This interim solution will get us through our HD requirements in the
field as well as give us time to continue the evaluation of digital
vendor offerings as well as developing an archive solution.

I wanted to give you all a heads up to start thinking about what this
means for you. Please call with any questions or concerns.

Thanks
Stacy

[dazapper]

So NBC's decision further complicates the equation. There are some of us who are invested with Varicam, not the HDX900, and some, like myself, will argue they are missing the boat by neglecting the Varicam. The Olympic Profile Unit of NBC Sports two years ago chose the Varicam as their format, mainly because most of their freelancers were into the format. Now, at least two HD generations later, they swing back to Sony and a camera few people own. I would argue there are more freelancers invested in the HDX900, a camera they will accept but don't prefer, then there are with ANY Sony HD camera. I don't know much about the camera they have listed--is it a model of the expensive, hot, heavy, counterintuitve dinosaur the Cine Alta F900? That camera is a pig on power, is nearly 30 pounds, and is really slow in many ways--powering up, record start, changing setting, etc. Who's in charge over there? The same brains who bought MII?

I have an HD shoot scheduled for next week, and tomorrow I'm shooting a Varicam tape to send to the producer to have her test it with her editor. Nearly three years after buying the Varicam I'm still trying to convince network producers its value. I suspect I'll be doing this for years to come, even after they commit to a tapeless format.

[Hiding Under Here]

Two experienced freelancers come out of the woodwork. I love it. Thanks Dennis and Dave.

Dennis, I didn't want to print the Susan F email but I'm glad someone else thought it should be done. This stuff is confusing and I'm glad, for now, that I don't own an HD camera. However, my guess is that CBS will go with the HD XDCam when the 2/3" model debuts. Will we need TWO cameras then? Tough to say.

[F4 Fan]

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=10014&p=2&sp=19&id=84206

Good luck to those of you who have to invest in this. Just maybe if enough people don't buy these expensive cameras they'll have to settle for HDX-900 or HDW-730/750, which are still prettty darn expensive.

Maybe it's time to raise your rates, of course it sounds like BETA still isn't dead.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10014/hdw730.shtml

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/docs/brochures/hdw730s750.pdf

[Hiding Under Here]

The HDX900 is relatively INEXPENSIVE when weighed against what most freelancers paid for their Betacams. However, the Betacam was something they were able to rent three to four days a week and the payback was swift. Not so with the HDX900.

[Skipcam]

Zapper, the Sony F900 mentioned in the memo is the latest "R" version of the 900 series. It is built in the same case/size as the 730S/750 series and adds 24P capability so it's not that old beast the F900/3 series camera you mentioned. My question is about what they will pay freelancers as a day rate for an equipment package built around any one of these cameras. You would think they could set themselves up to take at least two popular formats to cover more bases. Having them buy more than one format tape deck makes a lot more sense then expecting freelancers to have more than one format HD camera.

[Flaca Productions]

i agree with F4 fan - the F900R isn't cheap - especially for a camera that doesn't have a lot of market share.

[dinosaur]

What is baffling is that the networks have a distinct format split personality between the different divisions of the company. As we speak NBC Sports is using freelance owned Varicams for Olympic and NFL feature stories while the NBC News Field Shop issues its memo regarding the limited use of HDCam. The same goes for CBS. While CBS News has established XDCam (soon to be HD XDCam) and its O&O's & CBS NewsPath with HD XDCam, its sports division has purchased Varicams for ENG features. While its remote truck vendors (NMT etc.) have F900s and Varicams available for ENG work on location. ABC Sports is now mostly driven by ESPN's bus and as we have previously discussed here is leaning towards demanding Varicam, but in the same breath is allowing its contract cameramen to buy HDX900s. Fox News & O&Os are going P2 yet Fox Sports is accepting a mixture of Varicam, HDX900 and even SDX900 aquisition. Even the venerable NFL Films is divided between in house camps that use F900 & HDX900 for different shows.

I still feel the bottom line is that aquisition format is being driven by the availablity of a particular format playback deck in the given post/edit facility that you are working for. If they dont have a deck readily available that can playout DVCProHD Ex or HD XDCam, what incentive is there for them to accept those tapes or disks from you if they have to go out and rent a deck in NY or LA just for them to ingest your tapes or disks?

Unless we have all of our eggs in a particular clients basket, how can you make a realistic decision on what format camera to invest in without getting burned?

[Run&Gun]

ABC Sports is now mostly driven by ESPN's bus and as we have previously discussed here is leaning towards demanding Varicam, but in the same breath is allowing its contract cameramen to buy HDX900s.

Not to hijack the NBC thread, but I've only heard of one ESPN "contract guy" going with, or being allowed to go with, an HDX-900(and that was on this board). While I'm not "contract", I was told to buy the VariCam, another "contract" shooter(that does MNF among other things) was told to buy the VariCam, another shooter in my same position in FL was told to buy the VariCam and all of the staff guys were given VariCams, and the new show, E:60, is mandating the VariCam for the primary interview/b-roll camera.

[ED Scott]

I shot a story for NBC News using the Varicam back in May, so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.

The 730/750/900 cameras are going to be leased by NBC and distributed to the staff shooters. As Stacy indicates in her memo, The acquisition of the new Sony camera, does not preclude the use of other HD cameras, such as the Panasonic HDX900. the key word is Such As.

The producer I worked with was not concerned about 720p or 1080i, his only concern was getting the footage ingested into the edit system.

At least the network is moving towards HD AND, we now get to watch the decline of Dateline in HD!

[dazapper]

Just exchanged emails with Susan Franks to get a clarification about the Varicam:

"yes, varicam is interchangeable w/hdx900. I just mentioned hdx 900 -it was
random. as I said, we're using everything,
as long as editing can handle it.

down the road it'll probably be flash card/ tapeless."

I'm assuming they have installed or will be installing the 1200 deck that accepts the various sized Panasonic tapes and their HD formats. So in the end, it sounds like better news for all.

[must-c-tv]

There are a couple of other factors here:

1) The NBC bureaux are leasing the 750 cameras from Sony. NBC is currently an Ikegami customer. Would Sony like to have them? Of course. So I suspect NBC is getting a very good leasing rate on the cameras (which aren't that popular - I believe Japan's NHK is the only network that uses them) - a 'loss leader' for Sony, hoping to draw NBC into the Sony family

2) Will NBC accept SP? Of course they will. None of their overseas bureaux can feed anything other than SD. Feeding HD is a major pain.

3) This decision also delays a major purchase of assets - and there have been consistent rumours for a long time that GE may sell off NBC in the next couple of years

4) And, is there any need for network news to be HD anyway? No, of course not. No viewers are saying "I won't watch Brian Williams because he's in SD". The whole thing of networks hyping the fact that they are HD is just a case of 'keeping up with the neighbours'. HD makes sense for Discovery Channel etc - but there is no pressing demand for it for news.

[Run&Gun]

4) And, is there any need for network news to be HD anyway? No, of course not. No viewers are saying "I won't watch Brian Williams because he's in SD". The whole thing of networks hyping the fact that they are HD is just a case of 'keeping up with the neighbours'. HD makes sense for Discovery Channel etc - but there is no pressing demand for it for news.

That's a little short-sighted, don't you think? What about archiving for the future at the very least? Maybe I'm biased because I'm doing mostly HD now, but I wish everything was done in HD, now.

Maybe I'm just too superficial, but I will watch things in HD that I normally wouldn't watch in SD, maybe the nets can improve their numbers for nightly news if it was in HD.

[must-c-tv]

R&G,

I'm with you mate. I like shooting HD. I like shooting 16:9.

But, from NBC's perspective, waiting until the HD camera format wars work out is a smart idea.

What's the rush?

What NBC exec wants to be responsible for choosing a format that could end up like MII ???

So, NBC does a little bit of HD features, has their Today and Nightly News studio cameras in HD, so that they claim they are HD - and wait for things to settle.

The new Fox Business Channel is launching Monday. They using P2. A year from now, will they regret that decision?

This freelance board all the time talks about what camera to get, what networks are accepting etc. There are too many damn formats at the moment.

So, I think Stacey Brady is making a smart move not committing to anything just yet. ABC's production guys are thinking the same thing.

[dazapper]

OK, so they've clarified the camera selection. Have they given the official frame rate yet? Are we shooting 24, 30, or 60?--or is it a producer call?--or do we get the inevitable "damn the freelancer" call two days after the shoot telling us "I told you it was 30 frames and you shot 24. We can't use 24!"

All this confusion is killing me! I wish all the earth had one common religion, one common currency, and one common HD format. Then we could all get along.

[freedom]

Most of my cable network HD shooting is 30. I have one major show on History that clearly states on their paperwork that shooting in 24 will cost the shooter $200 per tape for the conversion to 30!

I suspect that this is a Sony push. This will get 750's off the shelf prior to the 2/3 XDHD arrival. it will get their foot in the NBC door.
I wonder if NBC would accept the 730? It's pretty darn cheap on the used market now. A full size, native 1080i instead of a phony up-rezzed 1080i from 720p. And it's in HDCam which I'll assume they will have more decks to play out on.

[skeyworth]

Does anyone know what is included with the 730S in the "HDW730S Pac5"??

[dazapper]

Freedom---


Please be careful with phrases such as "A full size, native 1080i instead of a phony up-rezzed 1080i from 720p." Many, especially those of us who own Varicam and native 720p, would argue that having 720 lines is better than having 540 x 2 with interlacing, hence 1080i. Neither would have an argument with 1080p, but I haven't heard any discussion regarding acquisition in that format. But "phony up-ressed?" C'mon, non of the cameras I've seen compare with Varicam when it comes to the complete package--beautiful image, great in low light, ease of use. Of course this all changes when a true, useable, seemless and tapeless format emerges. I'll defend my Varicam at least until it's paid off.

[freedom]

Your varicam does not do up-rezzing in camera, I was talking about the HDX900.

I also prefer the Varicam when given the choice but not for 1080i production.

[Dennis Dillon]

Everybody here, including the networks are faced with a cost/function based analysis.
We can all espouse the benefits of one camera over the other when it comes to the actual image. I have used all of them and like each of them in a different way. But alas, owning three or four different cameras would force most of us to seek other means of income. So what to do. My experiences in post as a staffer and freelancer,(2 inch, Datatron, CMX, 1 inch, 1/2 inch, Toaster, Avid, and FCP) has taught me that it is the back end of the camera that determines the front end choice. Data rates, storage, and archiving are the first things networks look at. What is it going to cost me in post.
I'm not going to guess the reasons for Stacey's ,NBC, decision. She is very well versed in what technologies are afoot.
As some of you know that I work with XDCAM (3 years), and have been involved in the testing different Sony XD cameras as well as the new EX. In addition I have been testing XDCAM/FCP systems. I'm very limited as to what I can say about the future of the front end, but let me say it again. It is the back end that matters. The cost savings of a complete IT file based system is very big. Media management aided by metadata is key to every network's ability to acquire, ingest, archive, and repurpose their assets.
So after my diatribe, you may all wonder what camera I'll be buying. XDHD 2/3 422, any flavor. An EX as a small second. Reason, I have clients that have seen the benefits of the XD back end. It works and costs less to post.

[Hiding Under Here]

Dennis:

I won't pretend to know all the technical considerations involved in non-linear editing as I really derive all my income as a freelance photographer. However, from my naive standpoint, I agree. The 2/3" HD XDCam makes the most sense to me. Much as I would like to own an HD camera right now, I don't. Instead, I am amassing all of the accessories -- 2 lenses, HD monitor -- required to work with any brand of HD demanded by my clients so that I can simply rent the camera I need while building as broad an HD base as possible. When the 2/3" HD XDCam arrives and becomes efficacious, I believe that producers will gravitate to it. And I won't be married to any HD camera or format until that happens.

But that just my approach. I think there are other viable ways to skin this cat.

[Dennis Dillon]

Tom,
You are doing all the right things. When ever I'm asked about which camera to buy, I tell them all to buy good glass and wait.

[ED Scott]

I walked the same path. Sold all my SD glass when the value was still high and purchased two HD lens'. Same with my SD monitors.

Then I had a client that was offering many days of Varicam work. I decided that renting the camera was not cost effective and purchased it. Best decision I could have made at the time. That client is still around but in a smaller capacity, but I have gained other clients I never would have seen. Clients that typically have larger budgets and well thought out productions.

I'm convinced the 2/3 XDCam is going to be the camera of choice down the road, but until that road is paved, I'm very happy traveling down the path I've found.

[dhart]

This is a conservative business. I suspect most networks and cable producers are going to pick their favorite camera and yes, it's going to be impossible to own all the different flavors. But there is a way out of this mess.

But...I know a producer working on a local project for Dateline. He had a ton of master tapes that they wanted. He offers to convert them to a lossless O.T. file their Avids could ingest. No dice, they wanted the masters. Weird. So I suspect there will need to be some "growth" in that area if they want to continue to use freelancers with gear outside their prescribed choice.

We may all need to offer that conversion process in the near future and hope the edit bays learn to accept our conversion work. It's clear there never will be a dominant format ever again.