Toplight bandits! I.E... Beware the Ninja

[Brock Samson]

I was just wondering what everyone else's opinion is on our little top-mounted friends, the toplight.

I know that, in my case, I never use it unless I absolutely HAVE to. This situation would be, for example, a letter bomb goes off WAY out in the country, and the cops who are there even have their lights off when you get sound.

I always try to find another source of light to use as a key, often comboing the strobes and headlights from a police car, with a proper white balance and fair distance so as not to darken the background too much.

I sigh with exhasperation when I see Mr. Coppy McCopmore give sound in a black void, with the flattest of flat lights upon his head. Especially when there are like 3 shooters running lights on him, and the resulting iris down just makes the background disappear like a neat magic trick.

Why? Oh why?

This is not limited to small markets, I see it in all places, as my travels have allowed.

It makes me wear my sad pants....:-(

[Sportsguy]

Hey, don't forget about the one idiot who uses his dichroic when there are three or four other guys balanced for tungsten. I always wanna punch that guy.

[Run&Gun]

Or the guys that don't shoot with dichroics when someone else is already there in the middle of an interview balanced for daylight! I just wanna punch those three idiots...

Toplights are tools, know when and how to use them correctly. Sounds simple and stupid, but as we all know, there are people out there that can't figure out even the simplest of things.

[Stoney]

Hey, don't forget about the one idiot who uses his dichroic when there are three or four other guys balanced for tungsten. I always wanna punch that guy.

That makes me laugh out loud... we've all been there.

Might as well punch the radio guy, who shoves his mic flag into your shot, while you are at it.

[Land Rover]

That makes me laugh out loud... we've all been there.

Might as well punch the radio guy, who shoves his mic flag into your shot, while you are at it.

I've been on shoots where we all decide to take the mic flags off but the radio guys refuse to. Someone once told me they get a "bonus" everytime they get one of their mic flags on television as advertisement. Anybody know if there's any truth to that?

Oh yeah, I hate that guy that turns on lights after everyone else is already shooting.

[2000lux]

Oh yeah, I hate that guy that turns on lights after everyone else is already shooting.

Especailly in the middle of an answer / sound bite! :mad:

To me, top lights are the sledgehammer of lighting tools. It's indelicate and ugly, but some times you just need one.

I carry around a piece of opal diffusion that I wrap around the light when I want to knock it down a bit and diffuse it. I can also double the gel if I need more. I clip it on with a binder clip. Generally I just try to use the available light to get good interview lighting when I can't use a light kit.

I hate when people turn them on all the time. Especially when we're all shooting B-roll of the same events. Not only does their stuff look flat but you've got an unatural rouge light source moving through your nice shots that you can't control! :mad:

Just leave the @#%&*! thing off until you really need it. Then it will be there.

[Freddie Mercury]

Most of the time mine is in my bag and not on the camera. That keeps me from using it "lightly". It also keeps it out of the way and gives me a great reason to not turn it on in a cluster so I can enjoy the offset and save my battery.

When I do use it, it is either with dichro on in shade/overcast daylight conditions to add some separation and twinkle in the eye, or with at least on layer of diffusion. That's out the window when the dude next to you lights up a bare I-light, though.

[BluesDaddy]

Recently, I was out in the sticks waiting for sound from the DA at a scene where a deputy had shot someone. It was dusk and I was afraid it was going to be dark before long. The DA came out right when I was going to give up on quality lighting. I was able to use Filter 3, 9dB gain and my Frezzi w/dichroic, and a cop car in the background with the blue lights on. It was beautiful.
That being said, I avoid the toplight like the plague. Know when to use it.

[woodsiecam]

I call it "iris rollercoaster" during gangbang interviews, especially with sport shoots, when a camera will bust up to an interview in progress and flip on their light (iris down), and then a few seconds later another camera flips their light off and moves on to the next interview (iris up again), etc etc...

And seriously, do those newspaper guys have to stick their little audio recorders INSIDE THE MOUTH of the person they're interviewing?!?!?!?!?! I feel like I'm watching an infant being fed. EAT UP!!! YUM YUM!!! HERE COMES THE AIRPLANE!!! ZOOOOOOOM!!!

Don't they realize the sound they get one inch away from the person's mouth is almost exactly the same as what they will get from 12 inches away? Or do they just like pissing off all the photogs? WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO A PEN AND PAPER?!

[TexasDave]

One shop I went to had ONLY camera lights! No light kits! Can yo believe that? Needless to say, I was able to put in the budget some nice basic light kits, but nobody knew how to use them! I generously conducted a lighting clinic to get everyone up to speed, but rarely say anyone use those lights. Lazyness. Can't motivate stupid.

[pre-set]

I use mine all the time. Seriously, I do. I don't see the problems you're having with them.... Too bright? Lost the background details when irising down? Angle the light away or add more difussion. It's not rocket surgery, folks... People look BETTER without shadows and dark areas under their eyes. Do you actually carry a light kit with you when you're walking around on a scene? What do you plug it into? How do you get people to wait on you while you set up a key light??? All these questions are answered by your camera light...

This whole "I try to NEVER use my toplight" stuff reminds me of the "I NEVER use my shutter" stupidity that was going around a few weeks ago.

It's a tool. Use it.

[Brock Samson]

I use mine all the time. Seriously, I do. I don't see the problems you're having with them.... Too bright? Lost the background details when irising down? Angle the light away or add more difussion. It's not rocket surgery, folks... People look BETTER without shadows and dark areas under their eyes. Do you actually carry a light kit with you when you're walking around on a scene? What do you plug it into? How do you get people to wait on you while you set up a key light??? All these questions are answered by your camera light...

This whole "I try to NEVER use my toplight" stuff reminds me of the "I NEVER use my shutter" stupidity that was going around a few weeks ago.

It's a tool. Use it.

I suppose the original idea was to implore other shooters out there to be more sparing, not necessarily to NEVER use one.

Yes it is a tool, but like all tools, it should be used for certain situations. You probably wouldn't use a sledgehammer to change your oil would you? It's an emergency light for an emergency situation, in my humble opinion.

In reference to the background disappearing, it's in reference to the 'ninjas' I speak of who crash the party with toplight-a-blarin'.

As for personal use, I.E. my/your own interview; yes it can be feathered off or diffused to the desired level, but that will never cure the fact that it is the ultimate flattener. Basically, a light source firing from your lens.

Oh, and 'stupidity' is a bit of a strong word, don't you think, when 99% of the greatest television/film/print photographers and whatnot would agree that it is not a good idea to use one unless you have to? Were you to ever work in Hollywood, what do you think they would say if you wanted to light a scene by sticking an Arri 650 on top of the camera? Yes, it's an extreme example. Sorry.

But seriously, it's much better to use natural light anyway. No, I don't plug in a light kit to some magical sub-dimensional outlet, nor would I often have time to set up lights. Where do I find this light?

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Please see original post.


I say 9 db gain and well keyed, with a visible background, is way superior to 0 db and flatness ahoy in a sea of darkness.

Now please don't be angry, it's just an opinion. (Albeit one that I strongly stand behind.)

[f11vid]

A baby Chimera...don't leave home without it...

[wutang]

Not to bash top light users but I don't like the cave dweller look at over night news. I have found that my P2 handles low light situations very well and if I look for opportunities, I can stray from the light ray and use natural light to my advantage. I find that police lights work good, sometimes the fire department will bring out big overhead lights to light up the place, also street lights work as well. If you step back and take a look at every situation, you can always find a new way to approach everything.

[2gigch1]

A top light is an excellent tool if properly used. During daylight I fire up the Anton Bauer Ultralight HMI with abandon to fill in those faces on the street, it really brings out the interviews and standups. If needed I have a standard diffuser and several pieces of mylar to tone down / diffuse the light. At night I have a 20w light w/ diffuser and mylar options, and a 50w blowtorch for the times I need to hit a scene hard.

Of course natural light is preferred for most scene work and some interviews, but the knowledge of how to handle a toplight well can go a long way towards getting good video without being obtrusive.

Manufacture some freaking scrims and diffusers and you will vastly improve your video.

[rocky1138]

I use it when I don't have the time to set up REAL lights AND there isn't enough natural light around.

one thing that I've found (which isn't perfect, but very easy) is to use an empty DVC-Pro case rubber-banded around the light.

but I'll step in line w/ so many of you guys & say I HATE it when other photogs jump in on an interview & pop their light on.

I have YET to see a locker room that is too dark to shoot in, why screw the other guy over? & why make the interviewee feel even more uncomfortable?

anyone else notice people's heads going back into their neck when 6 mics get jammed into their mouth & their eyes squint down in pain when the top light is turned on about 8" from their face?

make the subject feel comfortable & you'll get better sound

[Corporate Management]

Once upon a time, in the land of small-market TV--in which no light kits existed...

The news director gave one of the photogs a long magazine article, on how to properly light an interview. This was supposed to be passed around to everyone.

"But," he protested, "We don't have any lights."

"Excuse me? What about the one on top of the camera?"

Needless to say, the article in question never mentioned such a thing.

[cameragod]

When I was just a trainee I was working with a guy called Barry AKA “The Sun Gun Kid.”
Barry had a 1000w lamp on the top of his camera and that was the beginning and end of his lighting.
Now while it was easy to laugh at the 60 year old “Kid” (and we did)
It was not quite the end of the story. Barry was a dab hand at bouncing is light to get some good affect with it. Walls, ceilings a bit reporters notepad all helped soften the 1000w sledgehammer and when you stopped laughing and actually looked at his pictures… damn some of them were good.
While I hope I never end up lighting like Barry for everything, I did learn a bit about one source lighting from him.

[Sportsguy]

I do find that using the softbox on the Ultralight looks pretty nice in most media "clot" situations. That is, however, until the next guy comes in with his 20 year-old Cine 60 belt and blasts 250 watts on the subject. It's sad that people still shoot with those 30 volt beasts.

[f11vid]

I do find that using the softbox on the Ultralight looks pretty nice in most media "clot" situations. That is, however, until the next guy comes in with his 20 year-old Cine 60 belt and blasts 250 watts on the subject. It's sad that people still shoot with those 30 volt beasts.

Dear god! Are they still using Saticons in PA?

[Run&Gun]

I've had both the Chimera and Frezzi softboxes for my Frezzi, but they don't do you any good, because 99.9% of the time everyone else involved is hitting the subject with hard, direct light. And I just love the one J.A. who shoot's with a 75+ watt bulb instead of a 20 or 30 that most people use.

[Freddie Mercury]

My early years involved a 30-volt battery belt (that would last maybe 10 minutes) and a full sized DC Colortran pushing the upper limit of the breakaway light post. It was the opposite of subtle, like a camera-mounted toaster oven. Those were necessary when we shot with tube cameras.

Those days are gone, so why are guys still out there hitting the subjects with the interrogation beam? My guess is laziness/apathy. They don't care how their shot looks as long as you can see the interviewee, and they SURE don't care about your shot.

[Stoney]

Camera mounted toaster oven also makes me laugh out loud.

Here is a cool thing I have been doing with my AB toplight and Li-Ion chinese batts that have Anton style 12v out jacks. Take the light and mount it next to the camera or put it in the hands of a producer or reporter. Wrap a little diffusion on it. It works pretty well as a fill light and it is quick. The mount I use is the little Lowel c-clamp with post. The end of the post has a screw mount which takes the AB light.

Perfect for when you are in a jam. Not great when 5 other cameras are in some guy's face.

[pinecone]

20 year-old Cine 60 belt

Hey, I use those battery belts all the time...to use as weight to hold down my stand lights in the wind. That is their highest and best use nowadays.

My toplight has a 25 watt bulb that is scrimmed down. It just fills in shadows on a face. If I need more the scrim comes off. That is not often. You just don't need much light for "hit and git" interviews with the new generation cameras.