Batteries - RIP?

[willis]

I know this subject has been beaten to death a couple of times, but I couldn't find anything specific to these batteries (feel free to bash my searching skills.) We have a bunch of AntonBauer "InterActive 2000" style bricks here, and I recently found 3 that had been more or less lost. I threw them on the charger, and noticed that the Hytron proceeded to charge normally, but the two Dionics flashed between charging and ready (as most batteries do when you first put them on.) Also, the screens of the Dionics flashed all of the segments, and life indicators (rather than just the first segment and no life meters as expected.) Are they gone? Is there any way to bring 'em back? Thanks!

--Will C.

[(Sin)ical]

WhatyoutalkinboutWillis? Sorry I just couldn't resist that one. How fast do they drain?
I haven't used the bricks in a while, but I don't think they can be revived from death. Whenever we switched to Hytron's I think that charger did help squeeze the most juice out of the Dionics, but ultimately they died. You always see old batteries selling on ebay, because they are on their last stages of life. I mean would you get rid of batteries if they were still doing the job? Get the most you can from them, but don't expect them to take on a second life. I've been on the Lithium Ion's for the past 5 years...and they die also. Hope that helps.

[skeyworth]

Willis,

Please call our tech support people at anton/bauer 1-800 541-1667

Scott Keyworth
Anton/Bauer

[F4 Fan]

Will,

Funny but I’ve been going through my battery inventory this week as well trying to see what to do about all the half dead batteries I’ve got.

I sent one of my AB Dionics back to Anton Bauer a couple of weeks ago to see if there was any way to fix it. Unfortunately, in the case of this one battery it was completely gone, zero voltage and no apparent way to resurrect it. According to the AB representative there was nothing I’d done to damage the battery and everything was up to date with my chargers, it was just time.

Let me say this, the AB people have always been great and they have managed to fix (under warranty I might add) one of my other Dionics. But the problem with Lithium batteries is that while they don’t develop a memory, they do have a limited life span. Different websites say different things about the number of charges they can handle – they vary from 200 to 500 charge cycles, but even AB says that if you get 2-3 years out of a Dionic that’s about the extent of their lifespan.

Yesterday I found this website on B-roll. com. I think they are worth looking into. They seem to be able to rebuild just about anything and their price on Lithium batteries seems to be way under those of other companies.

http://www.rathboneenergy.com/batteries/broadcast/inik_lithium_ion/inki_broadcast_and_film_lithium_ion_BP.html

I hope they can rebuild my inventory of batteries – we’ll see. I’ve got another Dionic that I’m worried about.

[JCTV]

I have been a loyal user of Anton Bauer for over 20 years and even used to sell them. But since the industry change over to Lithium batteries I think they have lagged behind.

One thing you have to remember is that Lithium batteries do not run on a per cycle time table like Ni-cads do, they are on a calendar time table. From the day they are build they start to die. If you buy a battery in June that has been on the shelf since January, it is already 6 months old even before you use it.

What do you look for in a battery - price, performance and now weight. When it was a “brick” world A/B had everyone beat, great Propacs, great chargers no worries. You could expect 3+ years of regular use. But now that there are lighter more powerful options, the Dionic is there only option in that category from A/B. You can expect only18-24 months of use. I know I have been through 6 Dionic 90’s.

There are several vendors that now sell Lithium batteries in various sizes and the reports that I have gotten, from the shooters using them, are all positive. But here is the major point, these new 90wh batteries sell for around $200 and a 155wh for $350. The street prices for a A/B Dionic are $400 for the 90Wh and $950 for the 160Wh…Do the math.

There are those who will argue that some of these batteries are from China and the workmanship is not as good, but I see them in the field everyday and they are holding up.

I am not the technical guy, but if you want an education, use the link F4 Fan mentioned and give Ron Rathbone a call, (865) 484-1783, he is “Mr. Battery”. He is not a salesman, he is a battery guy. He knows everything about batteries and then some, a great guy.

Bottom line is Anton Bauer is a good company and has been an industry leader for a long time, if they lowered their prices or developed a “better” battery I would be first in line. However, because of the power that the HD cameras require, I need more than 90Wh batteries and I want them to be light. So, after 20 plus years with A/B I have no choice but to make a change.

[Baltimore Shooter]

A shooter I was workign with last week told me he dropped 2 Dionics and they have never been the same since. So guess you'll have to be careful w/ the batts nowadays.

Warren

[Hiding Under Here]

Here's the deal with the Dionics -- they don't last as long as originally advertised. When I first bought my Dionics, I was told (not by Anton Bauer but by knowledgeable sales people at an extremely reputable sales distributor) that the Dionics would last about five hundred full cycles. The words "full cycles" was key. Since the battery doesn't develop a memory, it could be recharged from any point of the discharge. So if you discharged it 50%, you could recharge it fully and only when it was discharged 50% again would you have a "full cycle". I projected that to be 36 to 48 months based on my useage pattern.

Now that Dionics have been in the field, Anton Bauer has adjusted their lifespan prediction for the Dionics. They are now rated (and this is from Anton Bauer) to last 18 to 30 months. And they lose their staying power on a noticeable level somewhere towards the 18 month period. I have one (of four) Dionics that is completely dead. It's two years old. The other three function relatively well. But they are slipping.

What Anton Bauer is suggesting is that you have a mix of batteries. if you have four batteries in your rotation, they suggest two Dionics and two Hytrons. The Dionics make better hand-held batteries. The Hytrons will last longer.

I think the short life span of the Dionic line has bugged some freelance owner operators. I know the rental houses rotated out of them quickly once they saw the rapid diminishment in recharging capability. It's a trade off -- light weight/shorter life span, more weight/longer life span.

I don't think Anton Bauer was being deceptive. But they Dionics, it seems to me, were hyped more extensively than they should have been.

[El Guapo]

Willis,

Please call our tech support people at anton/bauer 1-800 541-1667

Scott Keyworth
Anton/Bauer

Is it wrong that I'm annoyed by vendors trolling around on our PHOTOG message board? I don't believe he's honestly trying to help...he's just here to solicit business.

EDIT:
as an alternative to Anton-Bauer, I'll second the recommendation for Rathbone Energy. They've rebuilt several batteries for us, all of which work very well now.

[micaelb]

I think Scott is trying to answer questions, he's been helpful to others here.
I've bought Li-ons from both Synergistic and batteries4broadcast.com and have been happy with them. They look identical except for the label. Synergistic even included a charger in their price. It is a pretty slow charger but it does charge a battery in less time then it takes to drain one on a camera.
I've had Rathbone rebuild a couple of nicads and they did nice work on them so I have no reason to think they don't build a good Li-on.
Frezzi also has a line of Li-ons, up to 200wh, priced between AB and the others. I chose Frezzi over AB years ago when I needed a bunch of batteries and didn't want to pay for gizmos, I just wanted the most watthours per dollar I could get. I wasn't sorry, their bricks served us well for years.
We did have one incident where a Li-on was smashed and then there was some smoke and stuff...it wasn't repairable at all.

[The Daywood]

Is there a recycle place to send batts that are RIP? I've got several here in the Equipment Room, from IDX to Sony and Panasonics for prosumer cameras...

I hate to just put 'em in the trash to end up in a landfill...I'm sure there is some environmental concern...

[SoMissTV]

I take my dead ones to Radio Shack and stuff them in the "recycle your cell phone batteries" here box. I've had to take a box apart in order to fit an AB battery in there.

Seriously.

[Hiding Under Here]

SoMiss, are you anywhere near Hattiesburg?

[SandRat]

Scott's a big help and will do all he can to help you squeeze a little more from your batteries. Sure, he's here for business, but part of his business is customer relations. If reps are not helpful, they're not doing their job.

Is it wrong that I'm annoyed by vendors trolling around on our PHOTOG message board? I don't believe he's honestly trying to help...he's just here to solicit business.

EDIT:
as an alternative to Anton-Bauer, I'll second the recommendation for Rathbone Energy. They've rebuilt several batteries for us, all of which work very well now.

[Tippster]

A/B Hytron 120s are still the best battery, IMHO. They also balance out a camera better, keeping it from being lens-heavy on the shoulder.

Dionics suck, especially under load (top light.)

And Guapo - isn't it better to get the answers from the source rather than second hand? I welcome any and all Industry reps to take part in our discussions. I do wish he'd have answered the question here in the open forum than asking for a private phonecall.

[Sportsguy]

I don't think they make the 120's anymore. Replaced with the 140.

[Tippster]

Well, my company buying/distributing outdated technology is not the biggest surprise.

The Dionics being a better battery would be.

[Stoney]

I've got five Li-Ion batts. One is a Sony 40w and two are 120's. The other two are 190's. I love them all.

The balancing act of having a 5 pound brick to balance out a heavy lens is old-school. Newer cameras aren't that front heavy (although the F350 seems to be) and they balance fine with a lower weight batt like a Li-Ion. Who want's to carry more weight than less?

When it comes to battery life... the Li-Ions from China are the way to go. They are so cheap, relative to all the options from Anton, IDX, and others. I plan to just replace them and move on.

[El Guapo]

I do wish he'd have answered the question here in the open forum than asking for a private phonecall.

Exactly!
If he were participating in the discussion, he'd offer up valuable information in the text of his posts. But to say, call customer support...? No sh*t! I think I could have come up with that answer on my own.

After giving it some thought, I do welcome participation from vendors. Telling us to call customer support is not participation...it's solicitation.

By the way...the other dude is right...they stopped making the 120's.

[JCTV]

A/B stopped making the 120 Hytron because the brought back the 100 and felt there was not enough of a difference between them, hence the 140 replaced it.

Speaking of the 140, I got asked this question; let’s say the TSA security guys at the airport get updated about the “nothing over 90Wh lithium batteries can pass through” limitation. What if you are traveling with 140 Hyrtons? Do you think Wally the security dude is going to let you pass with a “140”! I see it now, late for a plane and being stripped searched while you try to explain the differences in the chemistry of batteries.

Yea, it’s going to happen…