Imus

[NEWSSHOOTER3]

Alright. Much to my amazement, no one's gone there yet...

So, was what he said REALLY that offensive? Stupid, yes. But, this firestorm is just a circus of idiocy, in my opinion.

On the positive side, it has opened debate over racism, BUT... is this racism, or just Imus making an ignorant ill-directed statement?

[Foxwood]

It was stupid and racist. It takes a lot to get into Rutgers. It takes more to move a once lame basketball program to that level. What he said was meant to put those women down, by both race and gender. Don't agree? Go call your wife or girlfriend the same thing, "Nappy Headed Ho," then come back and tell us how that went.

I've seen several interviews with the women on the team. They have presented themselves far better and more intelligent than that aged radio talk show host.

I don't know if he should be fired, that's up to the people that employ him. He is an Asshat though.

[Baltimore Shooter]

What about when Jessie Jackson made the "Himeytown" comment? He kept his job.

How about when Al Sharpton let Tawany(?) Brawley(?) LIE about being raped by a white man? He kept his job.

Warren

[Buck Satan]

Anything different than any rap album in the last 20 years?? Or perhaps Chris Rock?

[Foxwood]

Those comments were wrong as well. As far as I know though, they didn't have a talk show carried on television and radio. And they did not have a powerhouse like MSNBC or CBS radio paying their salary. They were also not casting a disparaging remark specifically meant to cut down a group of people who had achieved a major mark. Those players did nothing to deserve those remarks. The comments were based on Imus's observations and racial leanings. Their achievements should be celebrated, not cut down due to his racial beliefs. Again, who would you say that to? Really!!!!!

I do dislike arguments that that rely on the, "somebody else did this or that," element. This discussion is about Imus. If you want to defend an action, give a straight up defense. Please don't go out on a tangent.

[ewink]

What about when Jessie Jackson made the "Himeytown" comment? He kept his job.

How about when Al Sharpton let Tawany(?) Brawley(?) LIE about being raped by a white man? He kept his job.

Warren

They have jobs?

Quite frankly, no matter how stupid or how ignorant what he said was, he has the right to say it. And people, as consumers, have the right to put him out of business.

Capitalism is a wonderful thing...

[NEWSSHOOTER3]

Okay, for argument's sake, let's put the shoe on the other foot. Here's a story I did recently in Atlanta. Did you even hear about this "art" displayed, not in a private gallery, but in the Atlanta Police Department? I bet not...


http://www.cbs46.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1340073&h1=Meeting%20Held%20On%20Controversial%20Artwork&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=123700&LaunchPageAdTag=Business&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.cbs46.com/Global/SearchResults.asp%3Fvendor%3Dwss%26qu%3Dracist&rnd=15165429

[Frank McBride]

Okay, for argument's sake, let's put the shoe on the other foot. Here's a story I did recently in Atlanta. Did you even hear about this "art" displayed, not in a private gallery, but in the Atlanta Police Department? I bet not...


http://www.cbs46.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1340073&h1=Meeting%20Held%20On%20Controversial%20Artwork&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=123700&LaunchPageAdTag=Business&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.cbs46.com/Global/SearchResults.asp%3Fvendor%3Dwss%26qu%3Dracist&rnd=15165429

The quotes you put on the word art suggest you had a problem with the painting. What did you object to?

It did take a position, and a police station seems a strange place to display it, but that was a pretty tame statement it made, aimed at no particular group of people. Totally different from what Imus did. I'm not surprised I had not heard about it. It wasn't that big of a deal.

FMc

[Baltimore Shooter]

Okay, for argument's sake, let's put the shoe on the other foot. Here's a story I did recently in Atlanta. Did you even hear about this "art" displayed, not in a private gallery, but in the Atlanta Police Department? I bet not...


http://www.cbs46.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1340073&h1=Meeting%20Held%20On%20Controversial%20Artwork&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=123700&LaunchPageAdTag=Business&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.cbs46.com/Global/SearchResults.asp%3Fvendor%3Dwss%26qu%3Dracist&rnd=15165429

Interesting. The 'art' on display said "it's okay to hate the white man", it's spelled out, right there, all you have to do is look at it.

And black people are okay with it!

I'll bet they wouldn't be okay with it if it said "It's okay to hate the black man". Where's Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton to denounce that? They are nowhere to be found. Shouldn't they be trying to stop the hate, regardless of which race is the aggressor???

Yet, Jessie and Al are in hiding, probably at some event to promote 'gangsta' rap and the black woman who lied about being raped by 4 white Duke lacrosse players.

Warren

[pre-set]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for any of those things to happen, dude. And logically speaking, why would they? There's nothing to be gained by acknowledging a mistake or perceived hypocrassy, so why bother even going there? They just pretend it's not there or didn't happen, and wait for the next thing to come along that suits their agenda.

It's not being unfair, it's just good strategy if you're a politcal/cultural gadfly.

Jesse and Al aren't the only ones guilty of that... Lots of other activist-types on all parts of the political spectrum do the same things.

The National Organization for Women should have rioted when Speaker Pelosi was made (forced?) to wear a burka when she visited Syria last week, but all you heard from their direction was crickets....

I've got my differences with the speakers politics, but as a "man", I find it offensive that this lady, 3rd in line of succession in our government, has to "bow" to a mysogonistic culture that demands their women wear ugly, black bedsheets.....



Rant over....

[Kaiser]

I applaud MSNBC's decision to cancel its simulcast of the show. It took a lot of courage and integrity to do nothing for a week then drop the show after advertisers pulled out.

[NEWSSHOOTER3]

The quotes you put on the word art suggest you had a problem with the painting. What did you object to?

It did take a position, and a police station seems a strange place to display it, but that was a pretty tame statement it made, aimed at no particular group of people. Totally different from what Imus did. I'm not surprised I had not heard about it. It wasn't that big of a deal.

FMc

As far as "art", I couldn't care less. Most of it is garbage to me anyway. Good for them if they get a check from it. I'm not upset, or offended, by this display. It means nothing to me. It has no value in my world.

The point was trying to put the shoe on the other foot. What if it was hispanic, muslim, or black? I believe you would have heard about it then.

[pre-set]

I applaud MSNBC's decision to cancel its simulcast of the show. It took a lot of courage and integrity to do nothing for a week then drop the show after advertisers pulled out.


Nice, Dude. Nice.......

[Frank McBride]

As far as "art", I couldn't care less. Most of it is garbage to me anyway. Good for them if they get a check from it. I'm not upset, or offended, by this display. It means nothing to me. It has no value in my world.

The point was trying to put the shoe on the other foot. What if it was hispanic, muslim, or black? I believe you would have heard about it then.

I think I interpretted that piece differently than you. I thought the artist was trying to point out a societal prejudice against white men, not to promote or condone hate against them. If you replace white with other races, I don't think it would cause any more controversy, though some may be less accurate than others.

FMc

[Frank McBride]

AP alert: CBS cans Imus. No big surprise, except that they waited as long as they did.

FMc

[Foxwood]

And life goes on, minus-Imus. He'll be back on the air somewhere before his previous suspension expires.

[pre-set]

What sucks though is that this further establishes precedent, and our freedoms of speech and thought (even dumb speech and stupid thoughts) are now a little bit weaker than they were a few days ago.....


I can't stand Rosie O'Donnel, but I heard she said something I totally agree with yesterday - specifically, that "this incident will just make it easier for canning someone the "next" time when someone says something the "other" side doesn't like"....

She's right. Yeah, I'm sure said it outta preemptive self-preservation, but it's true.

Olberman, Limbuagh, Marr, Savage, O'Donnel, O'Riley, Shultz, Beck...... Doesn't matter which side of the fence you sit on, sooner or later you'll be fair game for the "other" side...


And that sucks for all of us.

[Foxwood]

Nah. There is no danger to Freedom of Speech. Just a greater awareness of the price you may have to pay if your boss or audience doesn't agree.

The irony just hit me as I saw photos of him getting in his limo. That guy has the nerve to comment on somebody elses hair?

Whew! No wonder he wears that dumbass cowboy hat. Nice belt buckle too.

[pre-set]

Yeah, but that's not what I'm getting at. What I mean is, this whole mess is just giving activists - be they left or right - a bigger stick to club the people they wanna silence on the opposing side.


Example.... I don't like Randi Rhodes. But I don't wanna get her fired or taken off the air, either. But lots of Conservatives (who haven't thought this thing all-the-way-through) would like to see that happen.

They're wrong in that, but can't see that doing so would just make it easier for someone to take one of their favorites off the air.

I think it's just a road we shouldn't be going down.

[Canonman]

as a "man", I find it offensive that this lady, 3rd in line of succession in our government, has to "bow" to a mysogonistic culture that demands their women wear ugly, black bedsheets

Interesting view, pre-set. I think it goes along the lines of, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." Or, more to the point, if I came to your house to visit, you would expect me to honor your code of conduct while there (ie: not smoking, not putting feet on furniture, etc.).

However, like you, I find the practice offensive and down right stupid.

cm

[Bobcat Shooter]

What's the over/under on how long it takes him to show up on XM or Serius?

[pre-set]

Interesting view, pre-set. I think it goes along the lines of, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." Or, more to the point, if I came to your house to visit, you would expect me to honor your code of conduct while there (ie: not smoking, not putting feet on furniture, etc.).

However, like you, I find the practice offensive and down right stupid.

cm


Thats apples, and we're talking about oranges, dude...

It's not the same. Asking you not to put your feet on the table or smoke in my house isn't the same as subjugating (sp?) your wife, daughter, mother or sister.

[Icarus112277]

Anything different than any rap album in the last 20 years?? Or perhaps Chris Rock?


Ones on a news channel.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Yet, the leaders of the black community have not spoken out against the racist lyrics on rap albums. Talk about wanting to have it both ways.

There's all this talk now that our culture has become too mean. Yet, all the talking head shows want to talk about is shock jocks. They don't want to discuss the racism and mean spiritedness in rap. They side-step that issue. Why?

I'll tell you why. Because once they do that, Jackson and Sharpton will come out saying it's okay to do it in rap music, unless of course it was a white rapper.

Warren

[Frank McBride]

Yet, the leaders of the black community have not spoken out against the racist lyrics on rap albums. Talk about wanting to have it both ways.

There's all this talk now that our culture has become too mean. Yet, all the talking head shows want to talk about is shock jocks. They don't want to discuss the racism and mean spiritedness in rap. They side-step that issue. Why?

I'll tell you why. Because once they do that, Jackson and Sharpton will come out saying it's okay to do it in rap music, unless of course it was a white rapper.

Warren

Don't you know that if you point out the double standard you will be labeled a racist yourself?

FMc

[Foxwood]

Jackson and Sharpton didn't have radio and TV shows. MSNBC and CBS radio fired Imus because sponsors were dropping like flies. You don't have sponsors, you can't pay the guy millions. It's pretty simple.

[Fearless Leader]

"Yet, the leaders of the black community have not spoken out against the racist lyrics on rap albums."

Actually, to one degree or another, they have. i'm not going to pay money to read the full articles, but just check google news archives for "rap lyric protest"-you can at least read the abstracts. However, when it comes to hip hop lyrics, things are more complicated. Musical preference aside, at least some of these rappers are actually very perceptive and are using the language in a creative way, utilizing these words to spark incite and convey artistic meaning, rather than simply ignorantly labeling.

Also, to a degree, hip hop is an "internal" thing, compared to someone like Imus, a rich white dude who comes out and calls someone else a name for no other reason than he thinks it's funny.

You cannot seperate the words or actions from the context in which they are said or done, that is what defines what is offensive. It's not really a double standard, it's an awareness of context.

Now, taking offense or not, i don't think he should have been fired. I think we could have learned more from him redirecting this negative reaction into a more positive result. Firing him just gets the offender out of the way, but doesn't really address the issue/cause.

[Buck Satan]

""internal" thing" now that's funny.
Now does your "awareness of context" include the speakers race?

[Baltimore Shooter]

Also, to a degree, hip hop is an "internal" thing, compared to someone like Imus, a rich white dude who comes out and calls someone else a name for no other reason than he thinks it's funny.

Wow, that is one of the dumbest excuses I've seen in a while. And I suppose when Jessie Jackson called the Jewish community "Himeytown", that was an "internal" thing too?

Warren

[pre-set]

"Yet, the leaders of the black community have not spoken out against the racist lyrics on rap albums."

Actually, to one degree or another, they have....


Bill Cosby comes to mind. Of course, he was immediately labled an "uncleTom", then denounced and disowned...

[mayormustard]

Where is the outrage in the Asian community over the Virgina Tech shooter? Where is the outrage over Kim Jong Il? Why aren't hispanics "outraged" about the treatment of Albert Gonzalez? Where is the white community's "outrage" about Don Imus? Did you take to the streets first and foremost, when you (white person) heard about what Imus said to seperate yourself from the statements? If you are white, and Don Imus is also white -- Don Imus is therefore one of your "white community leaders". He speaks for you. Therefore, unless if you publicly spoke out about what he said you agree with him and he speaks for you. As does Rush Limbaugh and Conan O'brein. Before you have a debate about what rappers say or Chris Rock says or anything else, you must first take the time to publicly criticize and seperate yourself from this "white community leader" -- unless if you agree with him. So...please. Get outraged. Oh, and when you are finished with that, I have list of several things "white community leaders" have done or said that represent the feelings of you and you need to get going being outraged and publicly speaking out against all of them.

Seeing as you think that ALL people with dark skin living in the United States are collectively represented by only Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Just like reporters asking black people, "What will you do now that your leader is gone?" after Martin Luther King was shot. Because all black people are the same and only one or two people can represent them.

You know, on this message board I've heard. "Now that the Democrats control the senate you don't hear anything about corrupt voting machines or voting reform." I didn't say anything because it wasn't worth my time. But, guess what? Wrong. It still goes on...I read about bad voting machines and the need for a paper trail in voting everyday. I sign petitions about it all the time. But guess what? That isn't in the news. Even in the "liberal media". The fight still goes on.

People don't stop worrying about global warming during the winter.

Not all black people want Tiger Woods to win the Masters.

Wow, guess what? Lots and lots and lots and lots of black people do NOT like the lyrics of SOME rap music. Lots and lots of african americans make rap music that does not contain violent and degrading imagery towards women. Lots of them try to invoke change every day. Doesn't necessarily make it on TV though. (Oh, by the way, white people we need to hear more outrage from you about Johnny Cash saying "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die..." and also the to Hank Williams saying, "The way to keep a woman happy and make her do what's right, is love her every morning, bawl her out at night." What's that? You don't like country music? That music doesn't represent you? Are you white? Yes you do! Yes it does! Outrage and public decrying, please!)

The blanket comments are racist and stupid and have no validity. Get over your hatred of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Wow, they say stupid things some times and do dumb things other times. Guess what, so does the president! And he is WHITE. And if you are white....wow he represents you. Your white "community leader" said, "Bring it on." Which basically means, "Come on, give us (the troops) your best shot. We (the troops actually fighting) can take it, we (again, soldiers) can take some deaths and still win." Hands down the dumbest thing he has ever said. Hands down the biggest "white community leader" in this country. Were you outraged?

[Baltimore Shooter]

I've been outraged at Bush for almost 8 years now. But I alone can't have him impeached.

Not my president.

Warren

[Juliofx34]

I got other stuff to waste my hate on....but I will say this...before he made the comment, did he look in a mirror???? Lots of room to talk there.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Well, this is interesting. Because of the Imus fallout, rap mogul Russell Simmons is saying the genre should end the use of several words. Here is the article from MSN:

Simmons Says 3 Epithets Should Be Banned

The Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons said Monday that the recording and broadcast industries should consistently ban three racial and sexist epithets from all so-called clean versions of rap songs and the airwaves.

Currently such epithets are banned from most clean versions, but record companies sometimes "arbitrarily" decide which offensive words to exclude and there's no uniform standard for deleting such words, Simmons said.

The recommendations drew mixed reaction and come two weeks after some began carping anew about rap lyrics after radio personality Don Imus was fired by CBS Radio and NBC for referring to the players on the Rutgers university women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos."

Expressing concern about the "growing public outrage" over the use of such words in rap lyrics, Simmons said the words "bitch," "ho" and "nigger" should be considered "extreme curse words."

"We recommend (they're) always out," Simmons, the pioneering entrepreneur who made millions of dollars as he helped shape hip-hop culture, said in an interview Monday. "This is a first step. It's a clear message and a consistency that we want the industry to accept for more corporate social responsibility."

Last week, Simmons called a private meeting of influential music industry executives to discuss the issue. However, no music executives were associated with Monday's announcement by Simmons' Hip-Hop Summit Action Network.

Calls to Sony Music, Universal Music Group and Atlantic Records were not returned. The Recording Industry Association of America and Warner Music Group declined to comment.

Reaction to the announcement was mixed.

Bakari Kitwana, who has written about rap in books such as "Why White Kids Love Hip-Hop," said it was a step in the right direction. Kitwana said there needed to be uniformity in removing obscenities from music. He pointed out that in some songs curse words are replaced with clean words while, in others, epithets and curse words are merely covered up by silence, allowing listeners to still infer from context the edited words.

"It shows that people in the industry are realizing that the pendulum is swinging and that there's a national conversation that they don't want to be on the wrong side of," Kitwana said of the recommendations.

"This is further along than we could have expected them to go 10 years ago. But there has to be more. I think they can do more around the question of content."

Writer Joan Morgan said the announcement amounted to "absolutely nothing." She called the recommendations "short-sighted at best and disingenuous at worst." It was, she said, an "anemic, insufficient response" that failed to address homophobia and other issues in certain strains of hip-hop culture and rap music.

Morgan, author of "When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost: A Hip-Hop Feminist Breaks It Down," said calling for the removal of the three epithets assumes "all of the violence, misogyny and sexism in hip-hop is only expressed in" those words.

"It's says let's take the responsibility away from people creating the content and put it back on the corporations," said Morgan.

The recommendations also included forums to foster dialogue among entertainers, hip-hop fans and executives and the creation of a mentoring program for entertainers. Another recommendation called for the establishment of a coalition of music, radio and television executives to advise those industries on "lyrical and visual standards."

The announcement cautioned against violating free-speech rights but said that freedom of expression comes with responsibility.

"Our discussions are about the corporate social responsibility of the industry to voluntarily show respect to African-Americans and other people of color, African-American women and to all women in lyrics and images," read a joint statement from Simmons and Benjamin Chavis, the network's executive director.
-------------------------------------------
Link here - http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=259845&GT1=7702

Warren

[Foxwood]

Warren,

Nice find. Thanks for posting it.

[Buck Satan]

So much for "Blazing Saddles"...
And 2 Live Crew. Now there is a band that didnt have to stoop to cheap insults to press an album...:)

[NEWSSHOOTER3]

Yep. The whole damn situation is way out of hand now. So, just to be safe, don't ever try to be funny anymore so no one's feelings get hurt... yeah, that's what its come to...

[Foxwood]

Rest assured, blantant racism still gets a pass in Radioland. Rush Limbaugh recently played a song titled, "Barack, the Magic Negro" on his program.

[Buck Satan]

kinda like that whole Rosie O'donnel "Ching Chong" thing...

[Foxwood]

She is a moron. I'm sure everyone has heard about that in the media. But why was there nothing about what Rush said? It's not the first time that he has made racist comments. It could be because he is playing to his audience.

A question: Barack Obama has a Black Father, and a White Mother. By my math, he is half white and half black. Yet all we hear about is how he is black. Why is that? If you call him black, you should be prepared to call him white. Rush gets away with the racial slurs though. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge.)

[Buck Satan]

Why not consider him a human being rather that this black/white crap?

As to Rush what do you care what that pompous windbag has to say? He has the right to say whatever he wants, but why waste your energy listening?

[Grip]

did anyone see the Rescue Me where they had to go to sensitivity training?

[pre-set]

It's nice to see how Russell Simmons, after becoming a millionaire many, many times over on the backs of jokes about **'s, ******'s and *******, has finally decided that enough is enough.

Bravo, Russell, bravo.

<sarcasrm>

[Tippster]

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3853/1101apologycs7.jpg

[pre-set]

Yep, that's about right.

[freedom]

"Barak the magic negro" was a quote in a Los Angeles times article by a black writer commenting about how Barak is a "Safe" negro for whites to like. It takes a lot of digging to find the source but it's there if you dig hard enough.
Rush is parodying this comment.
Just thought you folks might like to actually have the facts for a change. As 'news people' you come up woefully short day in and day out.

[Brock Samson]

No wonder he wears that dumbass cowboy hat. Nice belt buckle too.

Uh...Foxwood... considering you're someone toting racial tolerance and whatnot, I have to say that, as a RANCHER'S son, I find it VERY offensive when you say a cowboy hat is 'dumbass.' Isn't that a charged form of Sociological racism?

Oh, and next time you eat a steak, thank the 'dumbass' that makes even less money than the average photog who brought it to you. Heck, even if you're a vegetarian, thank the farmer a mile down the road from him who probably just drove by wearing a cowboy hat.

So....what was everyone saying about hipocracy?

[Foxwood]

Dumbass as in, "all hat, no cattle." That's some pretty thin skin ya got there partner.

By the way, My Father and his family were Farmers. I now live in a rural/agricuratural area. Seems everyone here sports ballcaps, not some Cowboy rig. But when I see someone pass by the house wearing a cowboy hat, I'll be sure to thank him or her for ya.

In case you missed it, and it was a couple of months ago, Imus was wearing his in NYC. I doubt he was doing any farming or ranching there.

[Brock Samson]

Dumbass as in, "all hat, no cattle." That's some pretty thin skin ya got there partner.

By the way, My Father and his family were Farmers. I now live in a rural/agricuratural area. Seems everyone here sports ballcaps, not some Cowboy rig. But when I see someone pass by the house wearing a cowboy hat, I'll be sure to thank him or her for ya.

In case you missed it, and it was a couple of months ago, Imus was wearing his in NYC. I doubt he was doing any farming or ranching there.

Very well. I regress.

[Foxwood]

No problem.

Hey, what's going on with that NHL team of yours? Are the Preds going to move?

Sorry....we're still a little hockey crazy here.

[Brock Samson]

No clue. It depends on whether attendance falls below 14,000.