what's the going rate for editors?

[TexasDave]

I have a big project I am working on, and I'll have to hire an outside production company to do the editing. What's the rate I should be expecting?

I'm use to editing everything myself, so I was a little shocked when I got my first quote. The project will, once finished, be a 8-10 hour training video. I will write the entire script, just need someone to edit. There will be minor graphics, mostly bullet-point style.

The quote I got, just for editing, was $15,000. That seems a tad high. Their breakdown was 10 days at 1500 per day. Looking for feedback on rates.

Also, let me throw this in, the script isn't done. Well, not even started yet. I'm still going through all the video logging and such. I just know that the older training video was approx. 8-10 hours long, and I'll probably maintain the same format.

Think of it as a lecture series, all speaking inter-twined with some graphics and hired standup bridges and cut-a-ways of crowd.

I know its not the most compelling video, but that's what they want. Once script is complete, I'll try to use as much other b-roll as I can, dependant on the topic covered.

Any feedback would be useful.

[Alaska cameradude]

It may be a little high, I'd probably do it for a little less but it's not out of hand for a 8-10 hour video. That's a lot of work! Maybe you could do a rough edit yourself and cut down on some of the work you need to outsource if you need to save money?

[avidfaa]

PM sent...

[Necktie Boy]

The amount they is pretty good....They have to digitalize the video. I have seen a quote for $75 dollars an hour. You are asking for graphics. Those take sometime to create and position. They are using their own editing system. They have overhead....
They did sort of high ball you, but since there is no script, they don't know what they are getting into. 8-10 hours?? Is that 8-one hour training videos?? What will be the finish product?? Lay back to tape and create DVD's? That is all part of post-production.
If you can create the graphics, that would lower the price. Any pre editing will drop the price.

[Icarus112277]

For a stand alone freelance editor- 35-75 an hour depending on how good they are.

Using their rooms...1500 per day sounds about right, maybe a bit high but definitely within reason especially if they are 'good'.

[TexasDave]

Thanks guys. This has been helpful. Here's how the breakdown will work, I will have the finished product on DVD. The 8-10 hours will not be one long video. It will be broken up into approx. 20 20-10 minutes segments. My goal, down the road, is to get a FCP set up and do as much work as I can in-house, but not sure when that budget will be approved, and management doesn't want be to edit this one.

Now luckily, they have a copy of the old video - so they have an idea of what will need to be done. They do have avid's (not sure the extent - have a meeting later this week for a tour)

Wanted to stay with them just for the fact that the company has worked with them before. They brought me in to supervise all video production, have a lengthy news photogrpahy and editing background. They were the company that was hired to do the shooting, so to maintain flow and contitnuity, I was giving them first shot.

now since there is so much video, I'll have the time codes of all sot's/interviews/broll ready for them, so they won't have to spend endless time digitizing video they won't use.

Can you haggle any with large production houses? These guys do carry a pretty good reputation.

[Icarus112277]

You can try to haggle with anyone on rates, whether or not you'll get results depends on the people you're dealing with. I'd say you might get some leeway, considering you've done business with them already.

But then again its not your oney right?
And if you're going to try to build your own set-up to do some of the work having a big bill to save them might help you in one of many ways.

[Baltimore Shooter]

$1,500 for a day is on the low side of average. Most places in the Baltimore/DC area are charging $150-$200/hr which works out to $1,500-$2,000 for a 10hr day. Considering your final video will be 8 to 10hrs, $15k sounds about right.

Warren

[shootist]

lemme ask something a wee bit off-topic please....just for my own info actually......

the total cost...as in....10 days at $1500 sounds about right to me.

but.....

does a 10 day edit on an 8-10 hour project sound right? that's obviously about an hour of "finished product" per day. i certainly recognize that there are varying degrees of editing "detail work" in each project....but on more than a few occasions i've taken 1/2 a day to a full day for a fairly highly produced 4 minute piece.

am i THAT slow? i'd certainly have issues trying to turn an hour in one day. or is it that when you step into an edit session with a project like that you already have an edl and you're just punching in numbers? is it that i try a lot of different things AS i edit?

simply put (i know...too late...) what's that 10 hour edit session like...that you can get an hour of quality product finished?

[BluesCam]

$15K does not sound high for 10 hr. of final product, in fact it sounds low. If they can cut an hr. in a day that's pretty amazing.

[Douglas]

Think of it as a lecture series, all speaking inter-twined with some graphics and hired standup bridges and cut-a-ways of crowd. I know its not the most compelling video, but that's what they want. Once script is complete, I'll try to use as much other b-roll as I can, dependant on the topic covered.

Look at the description in the original post. I think it sounds pretty simple. A finished hour per day for something like this? No problem.

But you really need to know how complex the project is before you can judge the cost. How many edits per minute? 5 or 50? Is there any searching for material, making judgment calls, any creativity involved? Or is it just the mechnics of assembling the bits and pieces based on the blueprint that someone has handed you?

There's no way to know what a fair price is unless you know a lot more about the production. At one end of the spectrum you could hire an intern from the local college and pay him $20 an hour to chop it together with your gear. Maybe that would be good enough right there for delivery to the client, or maybe you will need to step in and polish it before you call it done.

At the other end of the spectrum, you might need a highly skilled documentary editor with lots of experience to craft the entire project together.

The nice thing about non-linear editing is that it's never done until you say it's done. Unlike when you shoot something, and it's got to be lit and shot exactly right the first time because there's no second chance. With editing, you can fool around with it forever. Let someone who works cheap hone it down, and then use someone with good skills to finish it. That's the most cost-effective way of editing long-form projects that don't require a lot of thinking or creativity.

Doug

[Baltimore Shooter]

Also, in the end, what you are preparing is an estimate. It is your best guess at what the project will cost, based on the info provided. Things can change. In every estimate I create, I put in this line:

* All costs are estimated, any additional materials or services required will be billed at the appropriate rate.

If the final costs for any of the services ends up being higher than anticipated, you have covered yourself.

Warren

[Douglas]

Also, in the end, what you are preparing is an estimate. It is your best guess at what the project will cost, based on the info provided. Things can change.

Why? In 25 years of writing, shooting, producing, and editing client videos I have always given a FIRM quote before doing any work. And in all those years I have never felt it necessary to bill more than the agreed amount. (see exceptions below)

First of all, if you are in the driver's seat, as it sounds like TexasDave will be on this production, then there shouldn't be any surprises if you do your job right and budget in a little pad anyway. Surprises result from poor planning, under bidding, or general lack of experience. Why should the client pay more than he thought because the production company blew it?

Now, there have been plenty of times when clients wanted to make changes in mid-stream, moved deadlines, or thrown other curve balls during the production. That's fine. You just discuss and agree to modify what the project will cost BEFORE that extra work is done. Sometimes the cost is even lower than the original estimate.

It's really no different than a contractor building a house. You agree on the specifications and a firm price and then you stick to it. If the customer has "upgrades" then you get a change order in writing so everyone knows where they stand. When they are told that changes will cost extra (for example to go back and re-shoot something because they decided they didn't like the color of the CEO's tie) many clients will decide it's not that important and say "never mind". And if it's truely important, they will have agreed to the extra cost before you dig a hole.

But either way, I've found it's very important for the client to already know exactly what the final bill will be before he even gets it it the mail. No surprises.

The other type of production, where the client is in the driver's seat and you are at their mercy for everything that happens during the production, then you shouldn't give them an estimate at all. You just give them your hourly rates for shooting, editing, etc. and tell them that the clock is always running. Again, no surprises. The clock is running, they know what the rate is, and they should keep tabs on what it's costing. But in my experience, letting the client be in the driver's seat is the worst way to do business.

To use another analogy, would you like to look over your mechanics's shoulder and TELL him how to fix your car. No, you turn it over to an expert and let him do is thing. Good clients realize the value of what you bring to the project and will want to get in the backseat and let you drive.


My 2 cents.

Doug

[Baltimore Shooter]

Why? In 25 years of writing, shooting, producing, and editing client videos I have always given a FIRM quote before doing any work. And in all those years I have never felt it necessary to bill more than the agreed amount.

So Doug, if you estimate an edit will take 10 hrs and it ends up taking 20, you don't charge for those other 10hrs? If you estimate the shoot will take a full day and their client shows up late, blows his lines and that 1 day shoot becomes a 2 day shoot, you don't charge extra for the other day? I'd hate to be your audio guy.

In dealing with "civilians" as someone else called them, some of them don't understand the what we do, why we do, how we do what we do, and why things take so long. Sometimes clients change their minds, sometimes they want to go in different directions, sometimes they want to try things out. And when they don't understand the effort, time and personnel involved.

When I was just starting out, I had a client who, after viewing the final draft of the edit, wanted to change some things. I told him it would cost extra. He went balistic, but finally agreed to the extra charges. At that time, I didn't have that line that I stated in my last post. So I decided that it needed to be there for my protection. What if they wanted to go back and shoot something else or differently and refused to pay any extra?

Also, I've dealt with the clients who 'review by committee', with 3, 4, 5 or more people reviewing the video and they all want to put their own stamp on it.

In one I did last year, where, after reviewing the 2nd or 3rd rough cut, they decided they should have one of their board members open, bridge and close the video. So that meant an extra day of shooting along w/ editing. Well, it didn't work, he appeared stiff and uncomfortable (partly becuase the 'producer' who was a marketing person gave the script to him the night before and they didn't think they would need a teleprompter).

So not only did I edit him into the video, I had to edit him out of it too, that costs extra time, thus money.

If clients think they are going to get all kinds of re-shoots, re-edits and any other hair-brained ideas they come up with, they are sadly mistaken.

So, that's why I put in the line about all costs are estimated, it protects myself if they change their minds or something unexpected comes up.

Warren

[Douglas]

Warren,

If you'll go back and re-read my post you'll see that:

1) I don't allow things to get out of hand in the ways you have described in your scenarios. Who would want to deal with that every day? My clients consider me a part their team, not an adversary.

2) When the clients makes changes, they pay. But only after they agree to the extra cost, or the work proceeds according to the original plan.

From what you've posted I can see there are many, many differences in the way we deal with clients, bid on jobs, etc. that go deeper than what we can discuss here. I couldn't possbibly describe to you how I run my business, and you probably like your way anyway. Good luck.

To answer your first question, if I think a job is going to take 10 hours and it takes me 20 because of my own inability to estimate the needs of the project, then yes, I'd eat it. I'm certainly not going to go crawling back to the client with a sob story.

And if the extra 10 hours was somehow the fault of the client because they changed the job in mid-stream, then they'd know about the extra cost long before we even got to hour number 11.

The bottom line is that when I bid on a job it is a firm price, and I DO NOT let things get out of control.

Doug

[Baltimore Shooter]

Sorry Doug, I did reread your post after I posted my response.

And no, I don't want to deal with that everyday, but my hands were pretty much tied. She was a marketing person who got me the job in the first place and she demanded that she take control and be the 'producer'.

She had no business to do that in the first place. In the end, the project went to 3 times the original budget and was a less effective video and they didn't renew her contract. This after she told me "Don't screw this up, they're my biggest client".

This is what happens when people think "how hard can it be?"

Warren

[Douglas]

Sorry Doug, I did reread your post after I posted my response. And no, I don't want to deal with that everyday, but my hands were pretty much tied. She was a marketing person who got me the job in the first place and she demanded that she take control and be the 'producer'. She had no business to do that in the first place. In the end, the project went to 3 times the original budget and was a less effective video and they didn't renew her contract. This after she told me "Don't screw this up, they're my biggest client". This is what happens when people think "how hard can it be?" Warren

Warren,

I know how things can get out of control like that when you let the client play too big a role in the actual production of the video. I never would have given an estimate (or at least rescineded it if an estimate had already been given) as soon as she said she was going to be the "producer". At the point, that's where you start the meter running and charge by the hour instead. Then what do you care if it takes 10 hours, 20 hours, or four weeks? Unless it interferes with other scheduling, who cares. It makes for a very relaxed atmosphere.

Doug